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WH Corp Policy for miners?
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Aless Benetek
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-09-14 04:29:02 UTC
Our WH corp had no miners, I just arrived along with two other new mbembers who mine.

I want to suggest a standard policy on mining, in particular what 'tax' we pay to support corp's POS fuel, etc.

I have read forums and some WH corps say they have a buyback program for ore at Jita prices?

I have read where folks pay flat 100K isk per load/day/week (dont remember now)?

What other policies/schemes are used by WH corps for miners to keep em happy/contributing?

My initial impression is that the corp doesnt really care about miners and perhaps would prefer we not fill up their POS storage with ore (someone made a comment)?

I am hoping we miners can be seen as a slow but steady income and not a logistics headache.


Thoughts/suggestions on good policy, tax, how to handle miners, etc.?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-09-14 05:41:53 UTC
our standard policy on miners is we gank them whenever possible, regardless of corp.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Nostradamouse Riraille
S.M.U.G.G.L.E.
#3 - 2012-09-14 06:41:42 UTC
70% Of total eve population mines
5% lives in wormhole


Plebians should not mingle with higher classes...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2012-09-14 10:07:45 UTC
I'd ask miners to set up their own POS with silos and refineries and Rorquals and whatever they need, and handle the logistics and POS upkeep themselves. Arranging ore storage in a non-indy POS is a bit too much to ask imho.

Then rest is just agreeing (and educating, if necessary) on security concerns, coordinating static opening, keeping miners and non-miners aware of all intel, and what everybody is doing.

More synergy is achieved if the miners also build things that the others can use, and maybe borrow their Orcas for hole collapsing :D



.
Gumby Ambraelle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-09-14 10:46:57 UTC
Aless Benetek wrote:
Our WH corp had no miners, I just arrived along with two other new mbembers who mine.

I want to suggest a standard policy on mining, in particular what 'tax' we pay to support corp's POS fuel, etc.

I have read forums and some WH corps say they have a buyback program for ore at Jita prices?

I have read where folks pay flat 100K isk per load/day/week (dont remember now)?

What other policies/schemes are used by WH corps for miners to keep em happy/contributing?

My initial impression is that the corp doesnt really care about miners and perhaps would prefer we not fill up their POS storage with ore (someone made a comment)?

I am hoping we miners can be seen as a slow but steady income and not a logistics headache.


Thoughts/suggestions on good policy, tax, how to handle miners, etc.?








Buy back ore at Jita - 20% plus the cost of the compression in the Rorqual
If you need a mineral at any given moment then you can refine in the hole and take the refinery hit, otherwise when there is aa supply of compressed minerals, set up a haul t o HS to sell or refine as is needed. Miners are to be expected to take part in the logistics of getting items out of the hole to HS for sale.

All miners should be expected to have a HS alt that will mine ice products for the remaining fuel components. This will reduce the operating expenses for the corp. After corp ice products for the month are collected the HS alt can sell the remaining product for personal ISK.



Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6 - 2012-09-14 11:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Everyone has their own policies. Generally if its someone that contributes in other ways to corp i.e. does pi towards POS fuel, hauling, etc. then gas/ore mining we don't really take a cut as corp if someones doing it of their own volition but someone who just came in, didn't really contribute to corp, made use of the POS and sat there mining all day tho we'd be looking at somewhere in the region of 15% back to corp.
Ravage Prime
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-09-14 11:54:51 UTC
Mining in Wormhole is a very good idea, specially in class 3 wh´s, ther are pletty amount of belt and you can make douple or triple isk comnpared with high sec.

How you pay the miners or you reprt the benefits, well every corp has their own system and you should try differents yourself.
I found this tool possibly it helps you http://miningbuddy.whistle-britches.com/

Last but not least, there are some rules you should follow, put a x-large ship array to store your ore. About 18mio m³ should be enough. If you can affort a rorqual build one, compressed ore is easier to transport out to station for refinering.
If you do not have a rorqual put a refinery array it has a huge waste but better then nothing.

Happy mining, and bring a lot of hulksBig smile

Aless Benetek wrote:
Our WH corp had no miners, I just arrived along with two other new mbembers who mine.

I want to suggest a standard policy on mining, in particular what 'tax' we pay to support corp's POS fuel, etc.

I have read forums and some WH corps say they have a buyback program for ore at Jita prices?

I have read where folks pay flat 100K isk per load/day/week (dont remember now)?

What other policies/schemes are used by WH corps for miners to keep em happy/contributing?

My initial impression is that the corp doesnt really care about miners and perhaps would prefer we not fill up their POS storage with ore (someone made a comment)?

I am hoping we miners can be seen as a slow but steady income and not a logistics headache.


Thoughts/suggestions on good policy, tax, how to handle miners, etc.?
Aless Benetek
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-09-14 14:47:14 UTC
Thanks for your input.

I think the idea of a seperate miner's POS is not good in our situatin, although we mine, we are fully part of daily corp activities, running sleepers, pvp, etc.

Mininng is something we do when times are slow.

We live in a Class 4 with a statiic Class 3.

Since we can't make POS fuel with our planets (missing lava planet I think?), perhaps moving my miner alt to Hi Sec for Ice to help with POS fuel is a good idea?

We do have a Roq, so I know we can compress ore, so that is good.

I might suggest we purchase (miners chip in) an x-large storage array for ore.

One prob I see is tracking who does what mining wise.

Thanks for the Miningbuddy link, I just downloaded and unRaRed it, but can't seem to find where it went...I will fool with it somemore.

Currently I put all my ore that I mine into the corp WH Loot slot in the POS storage array. I also document what Grav site and how much I mined/put in corp storage.

Problem is I learned one of the new miners is keeping all his ore :-(

Again, thanks for your comments/suggestions.
Kelhund
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-09-14 15:37:15 UTC
Haven't been online in a few months now, but this is what I did when I was active in my WH corp. Keep in mind that we primarily did escalations, and mining/gas harvesting were side jobs.

If the corp had a major project going on, I would do an 80/20 split. 80% of my time would be dedicated to mining for the current project (jump freighter, carrier, whatever) and the other 20% would be mining the high ends for my own personal gain.

If the corp did NOT have a major project going on, I would reverse it. I would try to get a decent spread of whatever we were low on, and the rest I would spend mining crokite or what have you, and using our refinery to mash it into a semi-haulable mineral.


Usually, however, I would sell that mineral to a corpie, and he would make missles or whatever out of it, because we live in C4s/C5s.
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-09-14 15:48:48 UTC
Ebeneezer Jade
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-09-14 15:51:26 UTC
You might also consider having the miners divide up the profit, with one share going back to the corp wallet. So, if you had five miners bring in 800 million ISK in ore (Jita prices), you agree that when you divide up the shares, each one gets 133 million, and the 6th share of 133 million goes back to the corp.

If they mined unequal amounts, some spending four hours mining and another spending two, you can multiply/divide shares so each share is based on an hour of labor. That rewards those who mine more, but unfortunately, the chunk going back to the corp gets larger if you have fewer miners, in which case you might wish to switch to a "half-share" going back to the corp wallet.
notha atfast
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#12 - 2012-09-14 16:03:43 UTC
Honestly if the mining pilots are helping protect the WH, are doing all of their normal corp duties. Then whatever they mine should be theirs. There is nothing stopping your other members from mining before now. Maybe a small fee to the ALT sitting by watching the static for company.

If all they do is mine and do nothing else then I would charge a flat rate of 10-15% of the mins. Then that can be used to build ships or mods for the corps. But taxing a miner just because nobody else in corp is willing to mine doesn't make much sense to me.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#13 - 2012-09-14 16:48:30 UTC
Our policy is clear :
you mine as you want , you want storage ?you pay the corp , you want protect ? you pay the corp you want to store the vessel ? you pay ..


Now How to pay !! by giving a % of your mining ( its up to the miners .. all of them decide to give 50%

Why 50% for own money and the ore going for the corp is used to prod ships or whatever for themselves minus the cost of functionnement , management ...

And Sometimes We made missions : one kind of ore No personnal gain only for the corp.

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#14 - 2012-09-14 17:53:24 UTC
Mining is NOT a good idea in wh, unless you are extremely bored!!!

And if you do, do not trouble your corp with it.

Basically mining in wh is only troublesome for your corp, not a help because:

1) Mining takes a lot of space that could be used for other stuff (or powergrid for more defense instead of cargo space)
2) Transporting ore out of wh requires a lot of mass, which means:
a) A Rorqual needs to be build which requires a lot of recources and invites ganks or
b) A **** load of manual work that was better spent doing something useful for your corp
c) Mass which could be used for hauling fuel and ships in, is used for getting ore out
3) Mining ships are gank targets par exellence.

In general, don't mine in wh and if you do, don't involve your corp and do it in a private pos which you keep fueled yourself.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Aless Benetek
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-09-14 18:01:42 UTC
notha atfast wrote:
Honestly if the mining pilots are helping protect the WH, are doing all of their normal corp duties. Then whatever they mine should be theirs. There is nothing stopping your other members from mining before now. Maybe a small fee to the ALT sitting by watching the static for company.

If all they do is mine and do nothing else then I would charge a flat rate of 10-15% of the mins. Then that can be used to build ships or mods for the corps. But taxing a miner just because nobody else in corp is willing to mine doesn't make much sense to me.



I usually mine solo, with no scouts, just use Dscan.

I know, the veterans tell me I am stupid and a cloaked Tengu boogeyman will get me but I make enough to buy my retriever several times over.

Retriever! I know the veterans say retriever in WH is dumb, get a Procurer with awesome tank, but the rats, I mean sleepers here don't seem to respawn, easier than Null sec mining in that regard. I basically AFK mine while I play World Of Tanks.

re: splitting profits, that probably wouldn't work because the three new guys are all solo miners, I am not sure how much they mine, and I would rather not have to deal with the whole fair share distribution drama.
Aless Benetek
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-09-14 18:09:19 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
Mining is NOT a good idea in wh, unless you are extremely bored!!!

And if you do, do not trouble your corp with it.

Basically mining in wh is only troublesome for your corp, not a help because:

1) Mining takes a lot of space that could be used for other stuff (or powergrid for more defense instead of cargo space)
2) Transporting ore out of wh requires a lot of mass, which means:
a) A Rorqual needs to be build which requires a lot of recources and invites ganks or
b) A **** load of manual work that was better spent doing something useful for your corp
c) Mass which could be used for hauling fuel and ships in, is used for getting ore out
3) Mining ships are gank targets par exellence.

In general, don't mine in wh and if you do, don't involve your corp and do it in a private pos which you keep fueled yourself.



Yah, I am getting the sense that alot of WH vets dont really consider mining a viable or worthwhile endeaver, for themselves or the corp.

I think there may be a couple in our corp with similar feelings.

I am new, perhaps I will change my mind as well, but WH life, the few days I have been here, is extremely boring due to fact that most of the corp are EU TZ and I am pretty much in the WH alone alot of the times during the week. On the weekends (the one weekend I have spent in here), we seem to do sleeper runs in our static C3, chase around PVP targets and such, so I am not tempted to use my alt for mining, instead use him for watching that K162 WH entrance while corp does sites.

I hope to get my Mercoxit skills trained, then move to Planetary Interaction skill plan, then perhaps manufacturing/invention - I will play these mini-games during week while I wait for week end ops. I will also do daily scans, pvp, etc during week if needed.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-09-14 19:21:59 UTC
The smugness, its intoxicating.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-09-15 22:52:16 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
Mining is NOT a good idea in wh, unless you are extremely bored!!!

And if you do, do not trouble your corp with it.

Basically mining in wh is only troublesome for your corp, not a help because:

1) Mining takes a lot of space that could be used for other stuff (or powergrid for more defense instead of cargo space)
2) Transporting ore out of wh requires a lot of mass, which means:
a) A Rorqual needs to be build which requires a lot of recources and invites ganks or
b) A **** load of manual work that was better spent doing something useful for your corp
c) Mass which could be used for hauling fuel and ships in, is used for getting ore out
3) Mining ships are gank targets par exellence.

In general, don't mine in wh and if you do, don't involve your corp and do it in a private pos which you keep fueled yourself.



1. Space is easily obtained, unless you're the kind of person who thinks you need 30 spares of every module you might ever possibly use.

2. How does a rorq invite ganks, exactly? Any more than your mere presence, at least. People are going to attack you whether you have a rorq or not, no one is going to see it and suddenly decide to start shooting based on that alone.
b. Hauling, even in a wormhole, is easy. You need 2 people, one to fly the indy and one to fly the scout. And if you have a hi sec static, you don't even need the second person.
c. Mass is irrelevant. As soon as one hole goes down, a new one spawns. That's how the system works. And it would take a ridiculous amount of ore to collapse a hole. As in, you haven't hauled any in 6 months.

3. That's why you have d-scan. PvE ships that are fighting sleepers are just as good in most "pvpers" eyes. You seem to be under the impression that getting into an exhumer, or building a rorq is going to somehow create gankers out of thin air.

The only time any of this becomes an issue is if you have to go more than 2 jumps to get to k-space. In that instance, mining is not a good idea. Since most people who like industry don't live in c-6s, its not really that tough.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-09-16 00:03:14 UTC
Dorian,

1. Space can be mitigated using offline CHA's you are correct. still can be a pain sometimes

2. Volume is a PITA. Even my 2 crappy retriever pilots can generate 2 Iteron 5's worth of ore an hour (maybe more, too lazy 2 math). Given all WH's C4 and below cant fit anything larger than an Orca can mean lots of hauling, if uncompressed.
a). Seeing caps at a POS can get you unwanted attention. Many corps will bash a POS just to get the caps to fight or self destruct. I would say the likelyhood is small, but it is there.
b) sorry no, hauling is a PITA. Any serious miners are gonna have vast amounts of ore which will have to be hauled in multiple trips out of the WH, then probably freightered to market etc. OR I can run a few sleeper sites and make the same as I would have mining, and the loot fits in a covert ops. (which is why most people give up on WH mining).
c. Mass is absolutely relevant. Unless of course you have that WH that always spawns its static 1 jump out of Jita.
3. Mining ships are far more gankable than PVE sleeper ships. For one their defenses are far lower. And they are nice enough to generally sit still for you. For example, I could never hope to take out a PVE Tengu running sites in a stealth bomber. But a mining barge is easy to sneak up on in one.
Marsan
#20 - 2012-09-16 01:22:10 UTC
Honestly most corps I've been in, or allied with don't care about miners at all. They are just happy to have more members in the hole. Sure if the corp decides to build a carrier or dred in the hole you'll be asked contribute minerals. The real question is if you are contributing to the corp in other ways. Do you run sites, go on the roams, do you contribute PI for fuel, or the like? If not then maybe you should regularly throw some percentage of the isk you get for mining to the corp wallet.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
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