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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Statement to the Faithful

Author
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#21 - 2012-09-16 00:25:52 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:

I imagine that it's quite discouraging to be looked down upon and reviled by the cluster at large.


I imagine that it's quite discouraging to not be looked upon by anyone at all.

The only people who aren't looked down by anyone is someone who lives in seclusion. All groups form their own hierarchies. I have most certainly been looked down upon by others.

Though it's good to know you don't look down upon me.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-09-16 07:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
I'm certainly no expert on the Amarrian faith, but all I am able to see here is one sect of a heretical cult proclaiming that another sect of heretical cultists are in fact the actual heretics. I'm not entirely sure what the actual appeal of this Sani Sabik is if all it promotes is a delusional sense of self-entitlement and privilege while practicing maudlin displays of drinking blood and expecting others to bow before the grandeur of clothes they do not wear. Of course, it's often those who are too delusional to see just how naked they are in public - indeed those without a modicum of dignity and self respect no doubt feel little shame at their public displays of undress - that feel the need to cover themselves in facades of false power. Those with true power often feel little need to impress it in public with empty rhetoric, I've found.

I'm certain the MIO is no doubt both amused and enthused at the prospect of potential Sani Sabik sectarian conflict however.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-09-16 22:43:31 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
I'm certainly no expert on the Amarrian faith,


But you're going to give your outsider opinion anyway, of course.


Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
... that feel the need to cover themselves in facades of false power. Those with true power often feel little need to impress it in public with empty rhetoric, I've found.


You must be confusing me with someone else, young one. If you doubt my power you are cordially invited to Kingdom lowsec with your little friends any time you like. Please consult the medical staff at your home station as it will be a short trip home.

As for the nudity, well, there is a time and place for all things, of course *smile*





Sabik now, Sabik forever

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-09-16 23:55:29 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
You must be confusing me with someone else, young one. If you doubt my power you are cordially invited to Kingdom lowsec with your little friends any time you like. Please consult the medical staff at your home station as it will be a short trip home.


Ms. Vitalia,

If the extent of your power is acts of unsanctioned capsuleer violence in low-security corridors I certainly feel no need to travel the distance to witness acts that occur much across the cluster. After all, why travel to catch small fish in a small pond when there are far larger trout to snare closer to home?

Your bravura is commendable though.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-09-17 00:06:51 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
why travel to catch small fish in a small pond when there are far larger trout to snare closer to home?


Based upon your public combat record the sorts of targets you consider 'larger trout' leave something to be desired. But good luck with what I imagine will be a promising and exciting career *smile*

Now if you'll excuse me I've a matter to attend to....

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-09-17 00:10:05 UTC
[Camera Image]


* The camera feed opens to a darkened room in an undisclosed location. A single spotlight shines down upon a solitary man. The man is bound, blindfolded, naked.... and in great distress. He whimpers softly to himself.

Two pairs of footsteps can be heard approaching, and a door opens off-camera. *


(Off Camera) Vitalia: "This is he?"

(Off Camera) Unknown True Amarr: "Yes, milady. We took him as our prize when you struck their deadspace observation post. He is the head Apostle of that particular facility."

Vitalia: "Was. Child of Omir, do you know who I am?"

Prisoner: "You are...n....nothing! Your life won't be worth sp..."

*The blow is quick and brutal, a savage fist directly in the man's face from the unidentified True Amarr. The prisoner collapses to the floor and begins to cough-blood. The True-Amarr male gives him a kick to the ribs for good measure, as the prisoner cries in pain*

Unidentified Male: "That tone will not be tolerated, heretic. Milady asked you a question."

Prisoner: *cough* "Yes... yes I know who you are."

Vitalia: "Excellent. Now, are you going to tell me what I need to know?

Prisoner: "I ....*cough* ... I don't have those sorts of locations. That sort of information is not given to Clergy of my stature. We..."

Vitalia: "Oh, child, how I wish I could believe you. I really do."

*snaps fingers*

*The unidentified Amarr male produces a blade, and begins to approach the prisoner, who starts trying to scurry away unsuccessfully.

Silas reaches out and grabs the floating camera drone, pointing the camera directly at her face in an extreme-closeup. *


"Your followers are legion, yes, but I have all the time in the world. Are you listening, Omir? Your Red God is not going to save you. Your Red God will do nothing as I slaughter your disciples, spill their blood unsaved into the voids of space, and wipe all of their names from your precious book forever. Are you listening, Omir?"

*The feed fades to black as the screams begin off-camera*

















Sabik now, Sabik forever

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-09-17 02:07:24 UTC
At one time, I pitied you for the depravity and immorality you had sunk to.

I pity you no longer.

You disgust me with your flagrant displays of depravity and inhumanity. What a wretched creature you are to willingly delve into such depths of atrocity and then flaunt them publicly to call out a single man who, as far as I can tell, is not so different from yourself.

War is a messy and ugly thing but the zealous pursuit of self-gratification and power is the epitome of hideousness.

~Malcolm Khross

Gottii
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-09-17 07:28:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gottii
There are men and monsters in this world who are not the least bit moved by the idea of a helpless man beaten, tortured and his throat slit. They find such things routine, everyday, boring even.

If you thought such a display would frighten or even register to a man like Omir, I think you are Walking into dark places you are ill-prepared to tread.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-09-17 16:55:16 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:


...but the zealous pursuit of self-gratification and power is the epitome of hideousness.


...as opposed to the zealous pursuit of self-enrichment and power through economic, political, and military means... how silly of me to not see the methods of your people as being all-that-different in the end.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-09-17 16:59:45 UTC
Gottii wrote:
I think you are Walking into dark places you are ill-prepared to tread.



We are so many of us born into Darkness. I shall bring light to every corner.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-09-17 17:27:05 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

...as opposed to the zealous pursuit of self-enrichment and power through economic, political, and military means... how silly of me to not see the methods of your people as being all-that-different in the end.


Publicly broadcast personal torture to send a message to a single individual is quite different from economic exploitation, political pandering and military might expressed by nations against nations. Even these methods are conducted with some expected level of humanity and dignity to them.

You express no dignity. You display no humanity. You broadcast complete sadistic indulgence in an attempt to call out to one man. If you cannot see the differences between your depravity and the ugliness of nations then you are even more blind than I originally believed.

~Malcolm Khross

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-09-17 17:33:13 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

Publicly broadcast personal torture to send a message to a single individual is quite different from economic exploitation, political pandering and military might expressed by nations against nations. Even these methods are conducted with some expected level of humanity and dignity to them.



So you would weigh the life of one man against the untold horrors unleashed by the larger States of New Eden?

I imagine the millions and millions of helpless civilians caught in the crossfire on the State / Federation border conflict for the last several years would disagree with your imagined levels of 'humanity and dignity.' Or the millions stuck in grinding poverty as cogs in your State machine, or the millions of unemployed Matari in the Federation eeking out a pathetic existence due to the inactions of the political elite.

All our hands are bloody in the pursuit of our goals.








Sabik now, Sabik forever

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-09-17 17:49:48 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
So you would weigh the life of one man against the untold horrors unleashed by the larger States of New Eden?


Nice attempt at deflection Vitalia.

No, I weigh the way in which an individual or nation conducts themselves. Atrocities are atrocities. Silent atrocities are still atrocities. Public atrocities are still atrocities. Atrocities committed by nations are still atrocities. Atrocities committed by individuals are still atrocities. The distinction comes in how those atrocities are handled, why there were committed and the character of the offender prior, during and after the act.

You gleefully torture an individual and then broadcast it publicly and proudly. You commit atrocities simply because you can and use them to try and provoke a response from whomever you're trying to instigate. You crave self-indulgence and power, you care nothing for those that are destroyed in your wake and seek the benefit of none other than yourself.

Silas Vitalia wrote:
I imagine the millions and millions of helpless civilians caught in the crossfire on the State / Federation border conflict for the last several years would disagree with your imagined levels of 'humanity and dignity.' Or the millions stuck in grinding poverty as cogs in your State machine, or the millions of unemployed Matari in the Federation eeking out a pathetic existence due to the inactions of the political elite.


You may imagine whatever you wish. Some of us are actively seeking to mitigate the damage caused to others while others, such as yourself, revel in it.

Silas Vitalia wrote:
All our hands are bloody in the pursuit of our goals.


Agreed. Yet again it comes down to our character. You show no remorse, make no attempt to value the lives and worth of others, you enjoy acts of sadism and revel in the suffering of others especially when you can use them to further your own desires and goals. Your hands are soaked with blood because you drown them in it.

~Malcolm Khross

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-09-17 18:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Silas Vitalia
Malcolm Khross wrote:


You gleefully torture an individual and then broadcast it publicly and proudly. You commit atrocities simply because you can and use them to try and provoke a response from whomever you're trying to instigate. You crave self-indulgence and power, you care nothing for those that are destroyed in your wake and seek the benefit of none other than yourself.


Guilty as charged.

Malcolm Khross wrote:
... make no attempt to value the lives and worth of others, you enjoy acts of sadism and revel in the suffering of others especially when you can use them to further your own desires and goals.


In the end Mr. Khross, people in this life are only as valuable as their ability to further your cause. Yes we have friends, we have acquaintances, but one should never forget this truth that underlies all things. Those who recognize this are that much better equipped for advancement in our little game of life.

In ages past the goals of individuals to accumulate wealth and influence was tempered by our oh-so-brief candle of life. We had but a short time to enforce our will and see our progeny benefit from our work.

We capsuleers have been given a great boon; There are now no limits. No ceiling. You and people like you can squander your gift by holding hands and singing songs of cooperation and love, or you can grab life forcibly by the neck and squeeze it for all its worth.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-09-17 18:35:17 UTC
I'd also pose a question to Mr. Kross here,

As a combat pilot you have killed. You've made orphans of children, mothers mourn their sons and daughters, husbands and wives cry out into the night because of your actions.

You would have us believe each and every single time this happens you solemnly think of the greater good?

Each and every single time?

Or, do you allow yourself the smallest bit of joy in your victories? Do you find yourself exclaiming positive encouragement to your fleet mate capsuleers at enemy ship destruction? No shouts of victory accross voice-comms? Do you have even a moment, if only a small one, of joy at watching the destruction of someone who was minutes ago trying to kill you? Be honest.



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-09-17 19:12:06 UTC
Yes, I am a combat pilot. I have killed and I have never denied that.

Every life has value but that value is beyond measuring from any single individual or group of individuals. It is both relative and intrinsic at once, a paradoxical level of value that can be attributed to very few things.

The taking of a life is not inherently an evil thing, it is a solemn thing.

I do not take glee in the destruction of life and anyone that knows me would attest to that. It is never something I do lightly and it is never something I do flippantly. It is a solemn sacrifice, a conscious decision that I make as I pursue and uphold that which is most dear to me. My hands are indeed stained with blood. I have robbed a families of their fathers and mothers, I have stolen a mother's son or a father's daughter. I have laid to waste hopes and dreams and trampled over them in the pursuit of my own.

These are all things I have done but I have not done them with glee and pleasure, nor with jubilation and sadism. I have done them with a solemn burden, knowing that each life taken had value to someone, somewhere and I would never seek to dishonor that value even as I must steal it from them. It is the price I pay each day in fighting for that which I hold most dear.

I am a monster and I make no qualms about it. I am a beast who dreams of beauty, a warrior who dreams of peace. There is very little joy in the duty I bear, except the joy in knowing that I pay the price so another may not have to.

We are different monsters, you and I.

It is a wicked and vile thing to take pleasure in the killing of another but infinitely moreso is it an atrocity to take life for pleasure. You are guilty of both.



~Malcolm Khross

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#37 - 2012-09-17 20:24:36 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Yes, I am a combat pilot. I have killed and I have never denied that.

Every life has value but that value is beyond measuring from any single individual or group of individuals. It is both relative and intrinsic at once, a paradoxical level of value that can be attributed to very few things.

The taking of a life is not inherently an evil thing, it is a solemn thing.

I do not take glee in the destruction of life and anyone that knows me would attest to that. It is never something I do lightly and it is never something I do flippantly. It is a solemn sacrifice, a conscious decision that I make as I pursue and uphold that which is most dear to me. My hands are indeed stained with blood. I have robbed a families of their fathers and mothers, I have stolen a mother's son or a father's daughter. I have laid to waste hopes and dreams and trampled over them in the pursuit of my own.

These are all things I have done but I have not done them with glee and pleasure, nor with jubilation and sadism. I have done them with a solemn burden, knowing that each life taken had value to someone, somewhere and I would never seek to dishonor that value even as I must steal it from them. It is the price I pay each day in fighting for that which I hold most dear.

I am a monster and I make no qualms about it. I am a beast who dreams of beauty, a warrior who dreams of peace. There is very little joy in the duty I bear, except the joy in knowing that I pay the price so another may not have to.

We are different monsters, you and I.

It is a wicked and vile thing to take pleasure in the killing of another but infinitely moreso is it an atrocity to take life for pleasure. You are guilty of both.





I believe Ms. Vitalia's issue, and indeed, overarching philosophy, is to ask yourself why you would ever align your goals in any direction other than what you enjoy doing.

I have to say I don't entirely dissagree, though we in TS-F believe it is more moral to change what you enjoy when such conflicts with the whole's moral standard, rather than to change the moral standard to what is enjoyed. In the end it is just different solutions to the same problem. We both end up doing only things we can morally live with.

Can you live with what you've done, morally? If so, you really aren't that far off from Ms. Vitalia.

That is, unless you get off from self flagellation. That's cool too.
Rhiannon Dellacorte
Liberty Vanguard
#38 - 2012-09-17 20:24:37 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
I'd also pose a question to Mr. Khross here,

As a combat pilot you have killed. You've made orphans of children, mothers mourn their sons and daughters, husbands and wives cry out into the night because of your actions.

You would have us believe each and every single time this happens you solemnly think of the greater good?

Each and every single time?

Or, do you allow yourself the smallest bit of joy in your victories? Do you find yourself exclaiming positive encouragement to your fleet mate capsuleers at enemy ship destruction? No shouts of victory accross voice-comms? Do you have even a moment, if only a small one, of joy at watching the destruction of someone who was minutes ago trying to kill you? Be honest.


I was wondering when this argument would show up. Hoping and praying it would.

On the surface it looks like Vitalia is trying to call out Khross on his hypocrisy. And in most circumstances I'd be all over that. I've seen my share of hypocrisy and hate it as much as the next self-righteous person. But there's just one problem. In order for this argument to work--at least the way you've framed it--you have to establish the premise that you, Vitalia, are a horrible person and the things that you do are horrible. Because the essence of your argument is, "You're just as horrible and depraved as I am, and you should just admit to it."

And yet here you are earlier in this thread trying to rhetorically prove that you're not so horrible as all that. So which one is it?

Rules of Acquisition #261

A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-09-17 20:34:59 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

I believe Ms. Vitalia's issue, and indeed, overarching philosophy, is to ask yourself why you would ever align your goals in any direction other than what you enjoy doing.

I have to say I don't entirely dissagree, though we in TS-F believe it is more moral to change what you enjoy when such conflicts with the whole's moral standard, rather than to change the moral standard to what is enjoyed. In the end it is just different solutions to the same problem. We both end up doing only things we can morally live with.

Can you live with what you've done, morally? If so, you really aren't that far off from Ms. Vitalia.


Moral relativistic tripe at its finest.

The depths of depravity an individual will sink to and accept does not make that individual any more honorable, moral or justified in their behavior than the individual that cannot live with what they've done. .

A man's courage may be seen by that which he chooses to do, his integrity by that which he chooses not to do and his character by the sum of both.

Vitalia and I are very different in this regard. I will not deny that we are similar in ways but we are also distinctly different.

Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
That is, unless you get off from self flagellation. That's cool too.


There is a difference between doing what you feel must be done in order to enjoy the legacy you create and subjecting yourself to self-torture. I enjoy what I do because I know the cause is greater than myself and others will benefit from it. That does not mean I must enjoy what must be done along the way.


~Malcolm Khross

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#40 - 2012-09-17 20:59:37 UTC
Then you should enjoy what you do, Captain.
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