Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes because starting off a thread under false pretenses is a great basis for discussion.

1.) Warp core stabs are passive modules... there are no active modules built into a ship....

2.) You could create wonky fitting bonuses to pigeon hole the ship into a particular fit.... that might help prevent people using it how you don't expect... but people are creative out-of-the-box thinkers and you'll be surprised at what comes out....

3.) In the end, we must ask ourselves if this is something we want CCP to spend time on:
--- Ideally, you want an NPC-combat capable ship able to run exploration sites solo....
--- Several Options currently exist (like marauders, Pirate BS's, tengu's, pilgrims, and more), but they aren't quite satisfactory because they are too low dps, need to switch fits, are too "sluggish", are too much of a target, etc...

I personally don't care if they bring in an exploration ship... but I worry about it being overpowered...

In the end, it needs a vulnerability.... Uncatchable, all-in-one ships really are just boring, and no good for the game... If you want safety, security, and efficiency, I think you need to specialize roles and treat this as an MMO rather than a single player operation...

doo eeet

Also yeah, thats pretty brilliant right there in terms of balancing and such.

Thanks. I'll throw a couple more up and see what you guys think of them as I've worked them though.

Next the Combat Exploration Ship for the Gallente based on the Myrmidon hull, we'll call it the Lamassu (standard Gallente naming convention). Again I'm assuming all level 5's for the skills except the Exploration Ship Skill which is at 4 (because few people would take it to 5). Baseline CPU (320) Powergrid (940). I'll go an armour buffer fit because, while a dual repper fit may be more common for the Myrmidon it's specifically meant as a PvP fit and this is not primarily a PvP ship.

Lamassu
7 High (3 Turret), 7 Medium, 7 Lows - CPU (400), Powergrid (1192.5)

250mm Railgun II - 31.5 - 187.2 *** or *** Heavy Neutron Blaster II - 24.8 - 168.3
250mm Railgun II - 31.5 - 187.2 *** or *** Heavy Neutron Blaster II - 24.8 - 168.3
250mm Railgun II - 31.5 - 187.2 *** or *** Heavy Neutron Blaster II - 24.8 - 168.3
Small Tractor Beam II - 10 - 7
Salvager II - 10 - 7
Improved Cloaking Device II - 24 - 1
Core Probe Launcher II - 20 - 1

Federation Navy Stasis Webifier - 25 - 1
Cap Recharger II - 11.3 - 1
Cap Recharger II - 11.3 - 1
Cap Recharger II - 11.3 - 1
10MN Microwarpdrive II - 50 - 165
Codebreaker II - 10 - 1
Analyzer II - 10 - 1

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II - 30 - 1
Adaptive Nano Plating II - 0 - 1
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates - 23 - 200
Medium Armor Repairer II - 28 - 173
Damage Control II - 30 - 1
Nanofiber Internal Structure II - 0 - 0
Co-Processor II - (+40) - 1

Rigs
Medium Trimark Armour Pump II
Medium Trimark Armour Pump II

Total CPU - 434.4/440 *** 414.3/440
Total Powergrid - 1125.6/1192.5 *** 1068.9/1192.5

Now, I'm less familiar with Gallente ships than I am Caldari, but this seems like the most sensible fit giving the limitations. This fit would however would make an annoyingly slow ship barely topping 630m/s even with MWD and only at about 130m/s without it, making it possibly not ideal. 1600mm plates simply will not fit on this thing if you want to have a MWD, Weapons and a Repairer and you'd need to loose more than one to make the 300 powergrid needed to upgrade those plates.

This ship is capable of a fair bit though with approx 40,000 Effective HP with over 14,000 Armour and enough capacitor to run the Armor Repairer for 6-7mins with the MWD off for 100-120 Rep Amount (skills allowing). This ship could tank fairly well, although not as well as others in it's size bracket. When fitted with Railguns, this ship could kick out around the 175-225 DPS dependent on skills before the drones are considered, out to around 20-25km. With Neutron Blasters it needs to be at 8km or closer to be effective but the DPS goes up to 325-375 DPS. This is before the drones are considered, which as this ship could potentially fit 5 heavy drones, this could potentially add as much as 300-400 DPS from drones if using T2 Ogres again depending on skills. On paper this ship would be capable of almost 800 DPS which is scarily high, but on paper the Myrmidon itself can top 600 DPS with ease. More realistically would be a more long range fit either with Railguns or longer range ammo with the Blasters and for drone damage to be that high would be extremely skill intensive, putting more realistic damage at the 500-600 DPS range.

All in all the Lamassu is very hard to fit with extremely strict CPU and Powergrid. It's not as sturdy as the Perdix and it's speed suffers, but if it can get close it's damage is significantly higher.

This was the ship I was most worried about when it came to balance, as it's much harder to balance the drone bonuses of the Gallente especially when also getting a 100% bonus to turrets but it doesn't seem too overpowered. More capable of dishing out damage, but less able to take it, I'd still consider this fulfilling the role. If min-maxed this could potentially have the damage output and tank of a Tier 3 Battlecruiser (ie. a Glass Cannon), but it would be indirect damage, with half coming from the drones, and the other half needing you to be so close the ship would have to be sitting on your face to do it.

Destined to be called out as broken by EFT warriors the world over, this ship actually under performs when compared to the Perdix, but it's still a decent ship and I'm pleased with how it came out, here are the powers this ship had.

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus:
10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level

Exploration Ships Skill Bonus:
15% reduction in CPU requirements for Electronics & Sensor Upgrades modules per level.

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to damage of medium hybrid turrets.

I'm going to bed now, but I'll come back and post more in the morning as this is coming along really well. With enough feedback and discussion, I could see this being genuinely worth CCP's consideration but by all means critique this ship if you can. (Critique the ship, not the fit).

I'm a shocking PvPer with very little experience & spend next to no time EFT warrioring, yet in 30 seconds I came up with that fit that takes your 'exploration' ship, & turns it into a superior mission ship as well as a superior PvP ship. We haven't even started to scratch the surface of what someone with real skill can turn it into.

Also, Marauders are superior to standard battleships & are seen a lot in serious lvl 4 Mission runners. What is seen even more however is the Nightmare/Mach. Because they produce even more DPS than a Marauder. So the argument of '500 Mil' mission ships isn't going to stop people, as someone who runs lvl 4 missions full bore makes that in one day of mission running. & they never take low sec missions. It's not about 'Buying ships with Plex' when they make 100 Mil an hour.

Anyway, my point was that you have not created an 'exploration niche' ship here like you are attempting to, but have infact created a do it all monster ship. That out does basically everything else out there in it's class. Basically a BC size HAC, except with added slots for those who want to use it for exploration giving even more utility to those who use it for other things.
And the ships we already have (especially if the Gnosis goes live and is relatively easy to get rather than being a special issue) already are fine for exploration.

Ever consider that the issue isn't with the modules and ships, but with the actual process of hacking and analyzing? Talk about a underdeveloped mechanic. "You push the button... wait a little while... and then you win." This is slightly less complicated than a Jack-in-the-Box... Pong had more nuances.

Suggestion:
Remove codebreaker/analyzer (maybe even salvager) modules. Give all ships codebreaker/analyzer in the "ships scanner" window or something. Instead of extra slots to carry all these modules, give special roll bonuses to exploration-type ships who were always meant to carry "one" of them. Add a more complex mechanic (a mini-game... like scanning, only not boring) to the process of hacking/analyzing (maybe even salvaging).

Just dug around old threads of mine and found one pertaining exploration specialist T2 cruisers:
T2 Explorer Ship Class: Specialist Exploration Vessels

The design basis for them may be outdated but the basic ideas are still obvious. It's giving every race a unique ship for exploration oriented to their cultural background. Caldari - hacking, Amarr - combat, Gallente - mining, Minmatar - salvaging/archaeology.

I still have massive issues with the idea of a BC with 21 slots, especialy with a 100% bonus on weapon damage.
It just ends up being massively OP when used in another role.

If this exploration ship is intended to be a T2 BC, then its best to look at other T2 BC hulls for guidance. It doesn't need to be as capable in combat as a command ship can be, and even a command ship isnt that capable if it actually fills its support role. They sacrifice their gank for that. But these ships will ideally be for solo work.

So, the essential needs are: A salvager, a probe launcher, (preferably an expanded one,) a codebreaker and an analyzer.
A bonus to these items would be appropriate. Maybe the same one the T1 exploration frigates get; increased probe strength and cycle times on the exploration modules.

Tanking is not as much of an issue for T2 ships, as their natural resist profile is pretty strong and mitigates the need for slots for tanking.
Damage potential is still important, there is no point going into exploration sites where you can't take out the rats. But your already focused on the utility side, so tanking bonuses and damage bonuses are over the top. But again, it does not need to exceed T1 levels of DPS.
Cloaks are a luxury for anything other than Covert ships. Tractor beams and additional salvagers are also luxuries. Something has to be given in exchange for fitting these luxuries. The idea of leaving more utility slots for them is ridiculous, because it's far too open to abuse. This is supposed to be an exploration ship, not an 'exploitation ship'.

So, as a general rule Command ships have 17 slots, (the excpetion being minmatar with 18, which I expect will be changed in the summer expansion.) They heavily outgun and out tank T1 BC's even though they have the same number of slots, (except the Nighthawk, but I also hope that gets sorted out.)

So, if we look at using the natural benefits of T2 ships to mitigate the need for tank and damage mods, we should eaily be able to construct an exploration ship around a T2 BC hull.


That has a fairly solid tank, will out DPS a T1 BC and has enough space for the essential utilities. You can even maintain respectable DPS while fitting a cloak instead of a launcher. More importantly, it will not be OP if used for combat purposes.

Indeed, it does the job well. Unfortunately, it does a lot of jobs well.

Hopefully, when they eventually get around to the T3 rebalance, this should get looked at. At that point, I also hope that the principle of 'jack of all trades' will win out and a specialist T2 exploration ship will become a viable option.