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More Nerf to ganking

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Horatioh Kane
Perkone
Caldari State
#361 - 2012-09-12 00:13:57 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ccp why can't I fit plex to my ship slots?


This would be far too OP.
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#362 - 2012-09-12 00:20:44 UTC
So, let me get this straight.
Miners were getting ganked, so they cried.
CCP gave them a one-size-fits all Exhumer that is unprofitable to gank.

So gankers do what they always do, adapt (yet again), organize and....
....start blapping more freighters.
So now freighter pilots are crying. Roll

Next move, CCP?

I'd be down for helping out with any and all freighter ganks once the fall construction season wraps up, but if the recent patches are any indication we'll be seeing 1 Million EHP freighters before the snow flies. Roll
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#363 - 2012-09-12 00:49:13 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:

I mean, if we want to speculate on pointless activities, why not just figure out how many Tornados it takes to bring down the Veldnaught. At least that would be worthy of a mention on themittani.com, the hottest source for current EVE news and information.


Chribba is such a nice guy that even we didn't gank him when he flew through one of our instalocking gate camp on the amar-agil pipe.

I see you guys aren't as sentimental http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9116014


Can't follow the link from here, but assuming it refers to the event I remember, it was an epic day.
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2012-09-12 00:49:22 UTC
do i hear the mournful wailing of a freighter pilot? Roll

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#365 - 2012-09-12 01:54:20 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:

I mean, if we want to speculate on pointless activities, why not just figure out how many Tornados it takes to bring down the Veldnaught. At least that would be worthy of a mention on themittani.com, the hottest source for current EVE news and information.


Chribba is such a nice guy that even we didn't gank him when he flew through one of our instalocking gate camp on the amar-agil pipe.

I see you guys aren't as sentimental http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9116014


Can't follow the link from here, but assuming it refers to the event I remember, it was an epic day.

Oh my god they killed Chribba, you bastards!
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
unloadedx16
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#366 - 2012-09-12 03:06:07 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
unloadedx16 wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14561092

It took 6 Talos to gank a Freighter in highsec 0.5. That's less than half the cost of the Freighter. I mean I'm all for ganks and stuff guys but even in 0.5 that seems a bit unreasonable to me. A ship with no fitting slots with a sole purpose of transporting goods should be able to tank at least it's own hulls worth of ganker isk.

Am I the only one who sees something wrong here? Why does this community always rushes to such fast conclusions on things without even taking the time to look at the evidence. Sometimes slight balance changes are needed people.


While I feel freighters should be a bit more flexible to create strategy and uncertainty, yes you are the only one seeing something wrong there. The freighter pilot had several options at their disposal to avoid that situation, and in fact several of his compatriots made it safely to their destination. Undoubtedly they appreciated the increased profits created by the demand he could not fill.

Also you're underestimating the cost of the fully fit Talos which would have had to be T2 with good skills to be successful with those numbers.


If a group of competent pilots want to gank a freighter and they play it right, well... there gonna gank a freighter and their is not a dam thing a big slow turning flying pinata can do about it.
And a fully fit T2 Talos costs about 150mill isk. 6 of them add up too about 900mill wich is close to half the cost of a freighter.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#367 - 2012-09-12 03:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Paul Oliver wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:

Chribba is such a nice guy that even we didn't gank him when he flew through one of our instalocking gate camp on the amar-agil pipe.

I see you guys aren't as sentimental http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9116014

Can't follow the link from here, but assuming it refers to the event I remember, it was an epic day.

Oh my god they killed Chribba, you bastards!

He lost it with a covert ops cloaking device? I guess he wasn't expecting to be ganked. Since it was in a 0.5, makes sense...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#368 - 2012-09-12 03:07:11 UTC
Veld... doesn't shoot back
unloadedx16
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#369 - 2012-09-12 03:22:48 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
unloadedx16 wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14561092

It took 6 Talos to gank a Freighter in highsec 0.5. That's less than half the cost of the Freighter. I mean I'm all for ganks and stuff guys but even in 0.5 that seems a bit unreasonable to me. A ship with no fitting slots with a sole purpose of transporting goods should be able to tank at least it's own hulls worth of ganker isk.

Am I the only one who sees something wrong here? Why does this community always rushes to such fast conclusions on things without even taking the time to look at the evidence. Sometimes slight balance changes are needed people.

Oh hey look, someone else who bases their argument on "cost should = tank".

Please note how if I mission in highsec with a Tengu fitted for fighting against Guristas and I maximize my DPS by fitting BCS with no damage control, I have literally 0% EM and 50% explosive resist. This comes out to about 13k EHP vs. EMP ammo.

4 gank fit thrashers could easy take this down. We're talking about a setup here that's less than a twentieth the cost of the ship. This isn't a rare exception either, there are indeed Tengus doing this, as well as other expensive ships flying about with resist holes doing missions.


1) You can tank a tengu just fine without a damage control.
2) In a tengu you actually have the option to CHOOSE if you want to be tanky or ganky.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Oh hey look, someone else who bases their argument on "cost should = tank".


3) And yes that is exactly what I'm saying. For a big slow ship with no fitting slots and little means of defending itself, cost most definitely should equal cost.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#370 - 2012-09-12 03:34:44 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
So, let me get this straight.
Miners were getting ganked, so they cried.
CCP gave them a one-size-fits all Exhumer that is unprofitable to gank.

So gankers do what they always do, adapt (yet again), organize and....





LOL!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Good one man..."gankers adapt"
Perhaps you've forgotten the Barge fairy tale thread already where you guys have done nothing but whine and cry for hundreds of pages, I am sure it just slipped your mind. Thank you though for the laugh :)
unloadedx16
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#371 - 2012-09-12 03:59:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:

unloadedx16 wrote:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14561092

It took 6 Talos to gank a Freighter in highsec 0.5. That's less than half the cost of the Freighter.


In other words, it's working very nicely.


And in other words it's not??

Tippia wrote:

unloadedx16 wrote:

I mean I'm all for ganks and stuff guys but even in 0.5 that seems a bit unreasonable to me.


Indeed. It really shouldn't be that expensive. After all, my 7bn JF only requires 1.5bn or so worth of ships — that's a 5:1 ratio, which is much more reasonable, if still a bit on the low side.


I feel like 1.8bill (cost of talos'x2 for loot drop) should be chump change for a freighter, a ship with one sole purpose, to haul stuff around .
Also JF are a different story and are much less risky to use than their T1 counterparts if you have any idea what your doing.
If anything JF should be easier to gank.
unloadedx16
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#372 - 2012-09-12 04:00:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:

unloadedx16 wrote:

Am I the only one who sees something wrong here? Why does this community always rushes to such fast conclusions on things without even taking the time to look at the evidence..


The evidence points towards the pilot being stupid. This problem is not a matter of balance.



I agree with you, yes the pilot did not make a very good decision for hauling so much isk worth that it would be potentially profitable to gank him (if the loot drop gods are on your side).
What I'm arguing is that it should take more than 900mill to gank him in the first place.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#373 - 2012-09-12 05:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Oxandrolone wrote:
how about not making it viable for them to gank your freighter by moving less valuble stuff at once?


Then they say I'm risk-averse carebear. Even if I use two A-Type EANM as part of the tank...

My main can't fly freighter yet so I would really want to make it as stupidly expensive as possible to gank my ship by using Damnation.
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#374 - 2012-09-12 05:41:37 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:
So, let me get this straight.
Miners were getting ganked, so they cried.
CCP gave them a one-size-fits all Exhumer that is unprofitable to gank.

So gankers do what they always do, adapt (yet again), organize and....





LOL!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Good one man..."gankers adapt"
Perhaps you've forgotten the Barge fairy tale thread already where you guys have done nothing but whine and cry for hundreds of pages, I am sure it just slipped your mind. Thank you though for the laugh :)


What, did you think that gankers are going to stop ganking, simply because solo ganking miners is now impossible?
Sorry, thats not happening. They simply find the path of least resistance.

Convincing CCP that they screwed up is hard.
Killing freighters is relatively easy. Too bad for the freighter pilots.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#375 - 2012-09-12 05:46:10 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:
So, let me get this straight.
Miners were getting ganked, so they cried.
CCP gave them a one-size-fits all Exhumer that is unprofitable to gank.

So gankers do what they always do, adapt (yet again), organize and....

LOL!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Good one man..."gankers adapt"
Perhaps you've forgotten the Barge fairy tale thread already where you guys have done nothing but whine and cry for hundreds of pages, I am sure it just slipped your mind. Thank you though for the laugh :)

What, did you think that gankers are going to stop ganking, simply because solo ganking miners is now impossible?
Sorry, thats not happening. They simply find the path of least resistance.

Convincing CCP that they screwed up is hard.
Killing freighters is relatively easy. Too bad for the freighter pilots.

Guess CCP will have to "intervene". Good job with the freighter kills, guys.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#376 - 2012-09-12 09:20:13 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:


LOL!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Good one man..."gankers adapt"
Perhaps you've forgotten the Barge fairy tale thread already where you guys have done nothing but whine and cry for hundreds of pages, I am sure it just slipped your mind. Thank you though for the laugh :)


You seem to be mistaking valid balance issues with one barge doing the job of the 5 others as whining again.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#377 - 2012-09-12 09:23:17 UTC
unloadedx16 wrote:


I agree with you, yes the pilot did not make a very good decision for hauling so much isk worth that it would be potentially profitable to gank him (if the loot drop gods are on your side).
What I'm arguing is that it should take more than 900mill to gank him in the first place.



So 6 15 mil frigates should never kill a 2 bil battleship?
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#378 - 2012-09-12 11:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
But really, the first suggestion is the important one. All the rest are for if you don't follow it. Seriously: put the high value stuff into a fully expanded and rigged BR.
…or the corp hangar of an Orca. More EHP, quicker movement (compared to a freighter/JF), unscannable, and zero reason to gank it since it won't drop any loot.


I keep forgetting the Orca!



In this specific case (Orca) the "Pro" gankers choosing to do it knowing nothing will drop from Corp Hangar and Ship Bay only means one thing: assets/profit denial
Every one learns very fast alts, like alt corps, are an absolute risk free for major alliances. Hopefully smart people manage to always gather enough intell so this kind of gank is specifically targeted.
Since training some Freighter or Jump freighter pilots it's not something you can do in a week or two it's just a matter of some intell and brains to know exactly who does what and for who then take the appropriate measures.

If I ever know some guy movers T2 BPO's+tech+faction DED space stuff in his Orca thinking "hahaha I'm gank proof" then he's incredibly stupid on top of idiot. Assets denial it's a valid tactic and mechanic, not making any profit of said gank it's also a valid consequence since in the end all it matters in the end is the isk denial, not the number of ships involved.

But this you already know it, was just explaining "Pro gank" for dummies Lol
Erm, plz keep hauling dozens billions worth of stuff with your freighters instead of using Orcas or haul not more than a bill or two.

brb
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#379 - 2012-09-12 11:25:34 UTC
unloadedx16 wrote:
3) And yes that is exactly what I'm saying. For a big slow ship with no fitting slots and little means of defending itself, cost most definitely should equal cost.
No, it really shouldn't, regardless of the ship.

Quote:
And in other words it's not??
Don't be silly. Of course it is. Since cost is not a balancing factor, a bunch of cheap ships ruining the day of a much more expensive one is working just as intended. If anything. 2:1 is far too low a ratio and you should be able to get the kill with far less than that, and the JF's 5:1 ratio is much more appropriate.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#380 - 2012-09-12 11:51:56 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:
So, let me get this straight.
Miners were getting ganked, so they cried.
CCP gave them a one-size-fits all Exhumer that is unprofitable to gank.

So gankers do what they always do, adapt (yet again), organize and....





LOL!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Good one man..."gankers adapt"
Perhaps you've forgotten the Barge fairy tale thread already where you guys have done nothing but whine and cry for hundreds of pages, I am sure it just slipped your mind. Thank you though for the laugh :)


What, did you think that gankers are going to stop ganking, simply because solo ganking miners is now impossible?
Sorry, thats not happening. They simply find the path of least resistance.

Convincing CCP that they screwed up is hard.
Killing freighters is relatively easy. Too bad for the freighter pilots.


No, I don't expect gankers to stop ganking nor would I want them to. It's just your reply in comparison to how a lot of you gankers reacted to the mining changes... you didn't adapt, you just whined...lol.