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More Nerf to ganking

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#301 - 2012-09-11 13:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Mars Theran wrote:
Sure, you can bring a big fleet to escort it, but how does that help against the gang of 30 Tornados come to one shot gank it, and the Neutral ship to scoop the loot?


Why shouldn't 31 guys working together, and sacrificing >3 billion ISK worth of ships whether or not the operation succeeds, be able to gank a freighter? Are you honestly trying to say that this is too low a bar to set? How many should it take?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#302 - 2012-09-11 13:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
End result: one dead neutral that is no longer useful and must be biomassed (that's 10 hours gone), and maybe, with a bit of luck, one tiny frigate lost on the freighter side.


And a ban...

Malcanis wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Sure, you can bring a big fleet to escort it, but how does that help against the gang of 30 Tornados come to one shot gank it, and the Neutral ship to scoop the loot?


Why shouldn't 31 guys working together, and sacrificing >3 billion ISK worth of ships whether or not the operation succeeds, be able to gank a freighter? Are you honestly trying to say that this is too low a bar to set? How many should it take?


Of course they can do it, but it would be more fun if they shoot 700k EHP Damnation...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#303 - 2012-09-11 14:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And a ban...
Not really, or at least it's an edge-case, since it's a one-shot deal that doesn't incur enough of a sec status loss. But sure, come to think of it, they come of easy if they get the kill at an earlier attempt. Lol
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#304 - 2012-09-11 14:18:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Samahiel Sotken
Why should spaceships in a game about spaceships being blown up because of treachery, war, and crime be immune to being blown up?

Here's a point. It doesn't matter how much tank you give it. You put enough loot in it we'll find a way to blow it up http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14307479 because that's the point of this game. This game expressly bills itself as a gritty universe of crime where hard, grim folks team up to pull one over on each other.

Even so, you're not without recourse. I can think of five strategies off the top of my head that would ruin my day. All your theory crafting and hand waving aside; pulling concord early works, neutral reppers work, neutral blackbirds work, and webbing works. And what works most of all is making sure that you're not carrying something that costs more than 7-9 Tech 2 fitted Tier 3 battlecruisers.

If you do, and decide to do it on autopilot without friends near us, we will take it. Then, we'll use it to plex our accounts and buy more ships to do it to the next idiot. All while raising profits for every intelligent industrialists out there in one integrated, ecumenical, and holistic system of capitalistic symbiosis. This is as is should be, forever and ever, world without end. Amen.

edit: Heh, just realized that KM was the guy with 8 plex in his hold, so I literally did use my share of the loot to plex my account.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#305 - 2012-09-11 14:27:10 UTC
Ghazu wrote:

tell us about mining in rookie systems



You're far to interested in me that it's becoming a little creepy. Don't be that guy.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#306 - 2012-09-11 14:38:31 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:

If you do, and decide to do it on autopilot without friends near us, we will take it. Then, we'll use it to plex our accounts and buy more ships to do it to the next idiot. All while raising profits for every intelligent industrialists out there in one integrated, ecumenical, and holistic system of capitalistic symbiosis.

…and then people wonder why I'm in favour of more ganking. It's because I profit from their activitites, you dummies. Blink
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#307 - 2012-09-11 14:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Yokai Mitsuhide
Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank.
It's a poor ship design to not have the ability to fit anything in a game that based around pvp. Spend a billion on a ship that is supposed to carry large expensive loads of goods through space...just makes no sense to have no ability to fit anything on there.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#308 - 2012-09-11 14:46:49 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
And what works most of all is making sure that you're not carrying something that costs more than 7-9 Tech 2 fitted Tier 3 battlecruisers.


Except I could spend 1,5B to tank T2 battlecruiser and undock in Jita without any problems...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#309 - 2012-09-11 14:48:12 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank.
How much cargo space are you willing to give up?
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#310 - 2012-09-11 14:49:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank.
How much cargo space are you willing to give up?


None.
There is no need to reduce the cargo space to fit tank.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#311 - 2012-09-11 14:50:07 UTC
Just how do you defend a suicide gank target in high sec?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#312 - 2012-09-11 14:54:59 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank.


Yes, but only if they nerf the existing tank so they can only be buffed up to current levels and achieve similar align times. Allowing them to forgo tank in favor of faster align, or both in favor of increased cargo hold. Because I'll tell you what we'll see, even slower fatter, weaker loot pinata's, and that's good for the economy and player interest.

We need more ships being blown up, more risk, and more pilots thinking they can make some quick isk if they take those risks. What makes this game fun, interesting, and ultimately worth playing is not bitter vets watching netflix as meaningless fortunes AFK from belt to station to Jita. That is a useless, stagnant world that reeks of decay and rot.

We need a group of friends excited to try their first act of piracy, uncertain whether they have the fit, and the numbers, and the time to pull it off. We need the industrialist sweating bullets, getting away in 3% structure, glowing with relief at his fortune secured and thanking his corp mate over comms.

This is the path forward, this is why we all joined after watching all those trailers, and hearing breathless accounts from our friends. This is the narrative we need to be working towards. Not more 'iskies' for my 'toonies' to fund officer fit ratting tengus we never fly.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#313 - 2012-09-11 14:58:57 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank.


Yes, but only if they nerf the existing tank so they can only be buffed up to current levels and achieve similar align times. Allowing them to forgo tank in favor of faster align, or both in favor of increased cargo hold. Because I'll tell you what we'll see, even slower fatter, weaker loot pinata's, and that's good for the economy and player interest.

We need more ships being blown up, more risk, and more pilots thinking they can make some quick isk if they take those risks. What makes this game fun, interesting, and ultimately worth playing is not bitter vets watching netflix as meaningless fortunes AFK from belt to station to Jita. That is a useless, stagnant world that reeks of decay and rot.

We need a group of friends excited to try their first act of piracy, uncertain whether they have the fit, and the numbers, and the time to pull it off. We need the industrialist sweating bullets, getting away in 3% structure, glowing with relief at his fortune secured and thanking his corp mate over comms.

This is the path forward, this is why we all joined after watching all those trailers, and hearing breathless accounts from our friends. This is the narrative we need to be working towards. Not more 'iskies' for my 'toonies' to fund officer fit ratting tengus we never fly.


For once, I agree with a Goon.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#314 - 2012-09-11 14:59:51 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Just how do you defend a suicide gank target in high sec?


Tactics that work have already been mentioned; I'm not going to go into details of mechanics and numbers. We reap the rewards of our research, experience, and our risks; why should we give that up to you who has taken no risk and made no effort? Have you even looked at the kill mails and asked yourself, why these ships in this place with those numbers? If not you haven't even made a bare minimum attempt at playing the game.
Ghazu
#315 - 2012-09-11 15:00:10 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank.
How much cargo space are you willing to give up?


None.
There is no need to reduce the cargo space to fit tank.

Fit a tank at the cost of what? Painfully foregoing cargo expander IIs?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#316 - 2012-09-11 15:01:04 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Just how do you defend a suicide gank target in high sec?


Hint: prevention.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#317 - 2012-09-11 15:02:15 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank.


Yes, but only if they nerf the existing tank so they can only be buffed up to current levels and achieve similar align times. Allowing them to forgo tank in favor of faster align, or both in favor of increased cargo hold. Because I'll tell you what we'll see, even slower fatter, weaker loot pinata's, and that's good for the economy and player interest.

We need more ships being blown up, more risk, and more pilots thinking they can make some quick isk if they take those risks. What makes this game fun, interesting, and ultimately worth playing is not bitter vets watching netflix as meaningless fortunes AFK from belt to station to Jita. That is a useless, stagnant world that reeks of decay and rot.

We need a group of friends excited to try their first act of piracy, uncertain whether they have the fit, and the numbers, and the time to pull it off. We need the industrialist sweating bullets, getting away in 3% structure, glowing with relief at his fortune secured and thanking his corp mate over comms.

This is the path forward, this is why we all joined after watching all those trailers, and hearing breathless accounts from our friends. This is the narrative we need to be working towards. Not more 'iskies' for my 'toonies' to fund officer fit ratting tengus we never fly.



*Applause*

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#318 - 2012-09-11 15:06:56 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
this is why we all joined after watching all those trailers


Then why not go and do something nobody has done before: gank fully tanked Damnation in 1.0 system.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#319 - 2012-09-11 15:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
How much cargo space are you willing to give up?

None.
There is no need to reduce the cargo space to fit tank.
Yes there is. If you give them lowslots — the kind they need to tank in any meaningful way — then people will not use those lowslots for tank and instead fill them with cargo expanders. Since one of the design limitations is that no freighter can be allowed to carry 1M m3 (so they can't bring caps into highsec), every lowslot they get will mean that their base cargo capacity must be reduced to counteract the possibility that some nutcase fits expanders in order to carry even more valuables in an even less sturdy ship.

End result: all freighters will now be much less capable to carry cargo, and getting them up to their old carrying capacity entails fitting modules that makes the ship weaker than before. All in all, the ship is worse than before. Balance is a female dog, isn't it? Lol

So, again, how much cargo are you willing to give up, because you will have to if you want to gain the ability to make it stronger.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#320 - 2012-09-11 15:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Yokai Mitsuhide
Tippia wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
How much cargo space are you willing to give up?

None.
There is no need to reduce the cargo space to fit tank.
Yes there is. If you give them lowslots — the kind they need to tank in any meaningful way — then people will not use those lowslots for tank and instead fill them with cargo expanders. Since one of the design limitations is that no freighter can be allowed to carry 1M m3 (so they can't bring caps into highsec), every lowslot they get will mean that their base cargo capacity must be reduced to counteract the possibility that some nutcase fits expanders in order to carry even more valuables in an even less sturdy ship.

So, again, how much cargo are you willing to give up, because you will have to if you want to gain the ability to make it stronger.


So simply don't allow cargo expanders to be able to be fit to freighters. Though they will make themselves even slower and more easy of a target so...that only hurts the ones who choose not to fit a tank.