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More Nerf to ganking

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Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#221 - 2012-09-11 03:15:19 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
It sucks, older players with fleets of mining barges and orcas (which I'm coming to understand may very well be operated by a single person) come into the starter/school systems and clear cut entire fields

BUT ITS THE SAFEST PLACE TO MINE

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Ghazu
#222 - 2012-09-11 03:17:47 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Is griefing/harassing players in rookie systems allowed? There is a guy who's been harassing rookies in a system I mine in.


Are you trying to exploit rookie protection? Get out and leave the system for the rookies.


I mine there to help the rookies, I give them bonuses, answer questions, and I even give away most the isk I earn to help them out. I am not doing them any harm nor am I hiding out in a rookie system for protection.

Are you mining the roids there while you 'help out'


I am a miner, of course I mine there. But I don't take all my accounts there to mine all their ore. Wouldn't be helping at that point now would it. But between giving away isk, ships, chasing away exhumers, reporting bots, and trying to answer any questions I might be able to answer, my tiny amount of occasional mining there isn't really an issue.

Most of the time local is dead quiet, hard to get people to talk there. Was giving away isk a while back and it took almost an hour before someone finally noticed in local and said something lol.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1872878#post1872878

why of course he mines there because he's a miner and of course it's from the like and get liked thread where dudes go like each other. no because this guy is a joke and like to stroke his epeen in front of wide-eyed new players.

just leave the rookie systems no ifs and buts.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#223 - 2012-09-11 03:21:12 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Paul Oliver wrote:
It sucks, older players with fleets of mining barges and orcas (which I'm coming to understand may very well be operated by a single person) come into the starter/school systems and clear cut entire fields

BUT ITS THE SAFEST PLACE TO MINE

That's... a thing, huh.

That shouldn't be a thing.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#224 - 2012-09-11 03:22:46 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
That's... a thing, huh.

That shouldn't be a thing.

That's exactly what I thought about that link in your sig...

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#225 - 2012-09-11 03:23:37 UTC
I... what... I don't even...

It's like some unemployed 23 year old GROWN ASS MAN sneaking into a baby nursery wearing a diaper and a bib CRAWLING INTO A FRICKIN CRIB and going 'gaa gaa goo goo', occasionally ripping his pacifier out to call other people 'childish'.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#226 - 2012-09-11 03:28:46 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
It does seem kind of strange that a ship capable of hauling that much cargo which aligns and warps as slowly as a freighter does would not have the ability to fit any sort of defensive modules or atleast a method to avoid being tackled. Also the fact that a ship type that didn't even exist when freighters were introduced is being used exclusively to do the ganking implies that an imbalance exists and should be corrected, after all it's only logical that when a weapon is created that gives one side an advantage over another that a counter is also created.


Losing 10b+ of stuff really, really sucks.... Sorry about that...

A core feature of EvE is that there are consequences for your actions, and CCP isn't going to hold your hand or prevent you from doing something unintelligent. This is why scamming, tricking, trapping, and taking advantage of the ignorance or poor decision of others is allowed. If you undock in a ship carrying 10b in cargo, and someone notices, you're gonna get ganked. It's just common sense... If your insurance company will pay you $$100k if you crash your $10k car, would you crash it? Would your neighbor?? In EvE, if you offer returns like this, people are going to do it....

And how could you protect against this? If they buff freighters so it takes twice or thrice as many talos's to destroy it, do you really think this will prevent the suicide gankers from ganking such a valuable target? Of course not!!! And it's not in CCP's game design to "prevent" you from making a bad choice.... nor should they...

And lets be frank, if we could fit modules to a freighter, could we really fit enough to make it safe to haul 10+b isk in cargo? I doubt it... Most people will just fit their ship for maximum utility, much like the old exhumers pilots. The old hulks could fit a 30+k EHP tank, but people CHOSE to fit for yield with pitiful sub-10k EHP tanks that a dessie or two could gank. Perhaps people don't realize how fragile a freighter is, making them a wonderful target in ignorance. But giving Burn Jita, given regular suicide ganks of freighters, given the decimation of orcas during hulkageddon, it takes a special type of ignorance not to realize that all ships are vulnerable, even in highsec. It's not CCP's job to prevent us from making bad decisions!!!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2012-09-11 03:30:54 UTC
It's not often I say this, but I'll go ahead and say it.

That (clearing out rookie system belts) is something you shouldn't be allowed to do.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#228 - 2012-09-11 03:35:59 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's not often I say this, but I'll go ahead and say it.

That (clearing out rookie system belts) is something you shouldn't be allowed to do.
Sure you should. The problem is rather that they contain too much ore in too high concentration. Optimally, there should be no belts at all…
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#229 - 2012-09-11 03:37:26 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
That's... a thing, huh.

That shouldn't be a thing.

That's exactly what I thought about that link in your sig...

I'll have you know that, according to one of the people featured in it, that page does not exist.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ghazu
#230 - 2012-09-11 03:37:54 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
[quote=Paul Oliver]It does seem kind of strange that a ship capable of hauling that much cargo which aligns and warps as slowly as a freighter does would not have the ability to fit any sort of defensive modules or atleast a method to avoid being tackled. Also the fact that a ship type that didn't even exist when freighters were introduced is being used exclusively to do the ganking implies that an imbalance exists and should be corrected, after all it's only logical that when a weapon is created that gives one side an advantage over another that a counter is also created.


Tier 3 BCs trade off firepower for weak tank. You don't get to have everything in one ship, if you want tanking power use properly fitted orcas or transport ships or take 2 trips with the freighter.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2012-09-11 03:38:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's not often I say this, but I'll go ahead and say it.

That (clearing out rookie system belts) is something you shouldn't be allowed to do.
Sure you should. The problem is rather that they contain too much ore in too high concentration. Optimally, there should be no belts at all…

The way I see it if you're an older player you really have no business messing about in rookie systems.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Malak Synn
#232 - 2012-09-11 03:40:33 UTC
OP thinks there should be a revamp to Freighters & Jump Freighters... Roll

Got news for ya, Sunshine...

It's only going to make the ships gunning for the ganks Bigger & Badder.

The Gank Squads will adapt, and continue to profit... Business As Usual.

Such is Life in New Eden... World Without End. Blink
... I pick The Worst Times to Come Back In-Game...  ::shakes head::
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#233 - 2012-09-11 03:40:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's not often I say this, but I'll go ahead and say it.

That (clearing out rookie system belts) is something you shouldn't be allowed to do.
Sure you should. The problem is rather that they contain too much ore in too high concentration. Optimally, there should be no belts at all…
Right because people who can barely fly their ship to an asteroid belt much less mine should be forced to fly out to systems where people in assault frigates (playing off the fact most newbs don't know about T2 ships yet and confuse them for T1) are waiting to can flip them. 
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-09-11 03:45:38 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
That's... a thing, huh.

That shouldn't be a thing.

That's exactly what I thought about that link in your sig...


The sig made me rage cuz I saw a french name then nothing else in french.

WTF???

As for ganking to be on topic, people need to stop loading thier ship with that much isk...
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#235 - 2012-09-11 03:50:33 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's not often I say this, but I'll go ahead and say it.

That (clearing out rookie system belts) is something you shouldn't be allowed to do.


It's a waste of time if you're in a barge anyhow. You pop a roid in less than a full cycle of your strip miner more often than not. I never did understand why miners would bother with 1.0 or .9 systems. .8 is barely worth the effort, and that's only because that's the first time Pyroxeres start showing up.

The weird thing is that there is a whole raft of roid-heavy .5 and .6 systems further out that are almost deserted. Systems with no stations are wide open, and that's a natural habitat for an Orca-led mining crew.

I guess I would chalk it up to laziness -- they don't want to haul ore and minerals too far to a trade hub. But if you're a miner by profession (which you are by definition if you're driving an Orca), then I can't understand why you wouldn't do everything you could to maximize your ISK/hr...and you're not gonna do that by hoovering up the scraps in noob systems. (Not to mention the dickishness involved in forcing the noobs to venture further afield to get their pathetic little gobs of ore for missions.)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#236 - 2012-09-11 03:52:36 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The way I see it if you're an older player you really have no business messing about in rookie systems.
…and that's why the density should be so low that anyone that has gone beyond the most basic frigate will be wasting their time going there. Even more so when any larger ship will be wasting tons of time on all the moving around (between rocks and between sites) that they'd go through, unlike said frigate, which would be nippy enough to go wherever without any real loss.

Paul Oliver wrote:
Right because people who can barely fly their ship to an asteroid belt much less mine should be forced to fly out to systems
Quite the opposite, actually. Again, that's why the density should be much lower. But sure, if you say so. I don't see how your suggestion would be good for newbies, though.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#237 - 2012-09-11 03:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Ghazu wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Paul Oliver wrote:
It does seem kind of strange that a ship capable of hauling that much cargo which aligns and warps as slowly as a freighter does would not have the ability to fit any sort of defensive modules or atleast a method to avoid being tackled. Also the fact that a ship type that didn't even exist when freighters were introduced is being used exclusively to do the ganking implies that an imbalance exists and should be corrected, after all it's only logical that when a weapon is created that gives one side an advantage over another that a counter is also created.


Tier 3 BCs trade off firepower for weak tank. You don't get to have everything in one ship, if you want tanking power use properly fitted orcas or transport ships or take 2 trips with the freighter.


I think you missed a quote.... Those are Paul's words, not mine.

Also, to play devil's advocate, orca's and transport ships have very limited cargo capacity compared to freighters, and hence are often not viable. And to safely carry 10+b by freighter, you probably need to make 5+ trips or so (which is a significant amount of time!!!). A more viable, albeit still moderately risky method, is to double wrap your packages to prevent gankers from determining the value of your cargo. This itself is not without problems though, as insider information can still get you caught, it's also possible that gankers might risk the gank anyway, and I'm not 100% sure double-wrapping still works to inhibit cargo scanning.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#238 - 2012-09-11 04:02:26 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Also, to play devil's advocate, orca's and transport ships have very limited cargo capacity compared to freighters, and hence are often not viable. And to safely carry 10+b by freighter, you probably need to make 5+ trips or so (which is a significant amount of time!!!).
…to which the standard counter-question is: which takes more time, a second and third trip or earning back the 10bn you just lost?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#239 - 2012-09-11 04:04:23 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
That's... a thing, huh.

That shouldn't be a thing.

That's exactly what I thought about that link in your sig...

The sig made me rage cuz I saw a french name then nothing else in french.

WTF???

As for ganking to be on topic, people need to stop loading thier ship with that much isk...

I'm sure there's french stuff in the "proceedings".

But yeah, you load your freighter to the gills with expensive stuff, well then ...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#240 - 2012-09-11 04:17:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Also, to play devil's advocate, orca's and transport ships have very limited cargo capacity compared to freighters, and hence are often not viable. And to safely carry 10+b by freighter, you probably need to make 5+ trips or so (which is a significant amount of time!!!).
…to which the standard counter-question is: which takes more time, a second and third trip or earning back the 10bn you just lost?


It always boils down to, is the risk worth the reward... or how can I mitigate the risks while maximizing the long-term rewards...

If 5 trips takes you 5 hours to complete, and 1 trip takes you an hour.... and perhaps you gamble that you'll only get ganked once out every 10 times.... then the 1 hour trips could easily be worth it!!

Personally, I'd recommend breaking it into 10 1b isk trips, and courier contract them all to redfrog with collateral....