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Isk for the CSM

First post
Author
Frying Doom
#1 - 2012-09-09 10:53:13 UTC
No this is not me asking for donations for CSM member, sorry people Lol

I was just wondering while finding a better way to have elections have the CSM considered having a fee to run as a candidate.

The tournament had one and I would say the modest fee of 2 Billion should cover it.


This will lower the number of false candidates no matter what system is introduced and 2 Billion would be easy for someone to get if they wanted onto the CSM and it makes for a small isk sink as well.

After all we are after intelligent people who know this game. You do not know it while a newbie but even then if a newbie was eager enough he could just buy 4 plexes.

It would be an even better barrier when combined with this years 100 likes. This way we get people who want to be on the CSM and are willing to suffer more than just an election loss.

That and make voting only available to accounts active for longer than 3 months to save people activating old accounts with 1 plex just to rig the election.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-09-09 11:41:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Polly Oxford
Why would people activate their old accounts with plex if Hours for plex works fine?
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-09-09 11:43:44 UTC
Besides that, who would spend a plex on voting for someone anyway? Even if you may think we are evil Overlords it's not like everyone has 20 inactive accounts and without those Mittens only would have gotten 100 votes.
Frying Doom
#4 - 2012-09-09 12:07:59 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
Besides that, who would spend a plex on voting for someone anyway? Even if you may think we are evil Overlords it's not like everyone has 20 inactive accounts and without those Mittens only would have gotten 100 votes.

How strange that you would get defensive on this when members of Goonswarm have stated many times that they go not create new accounts with plex or activate old accounts with plex to vote.

Nor did I mention Goonswarm.

But the fact is the number of old accounts who are reactivated to vote is unknown but the number of new accounts older than 30 days but under 250 day is always a good percentage of the voters.

CSM 7 8,447 making up 14.29% of voting accounts
CSM 6 7,200 making up 14.67% of voting accounts
CSM 5 8,598 making up 21.80% of voting accounts
CSM 4 4,824 making up 22.80% of voting accounts
CSM 3 6,258 making up 22.47% of voting accounts
CSM 2 4,337 making up 21.56% of voting accounts
CSM 1 6,253 making up 25,37% of voting accounts

Now I don't know about you but 25% of the votes to start with but as the total number of votes has grown the percentage has shrunk, means to me new accounts are being made for vote rigging but who ever is doing it cannot keep up as the voting numbers increase.

So yes Voting should only be allowed in characters continuously subscribed for 3 months straight. The only real argument anyone could make is "That will cost us too much" as although I am for more people voting characters below 3 months really would not have a good enough grasp on the game to know what the CSM does properly let alone know who to vote for.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-09-09 12:32:05 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

How strange that you would get defensive on this when members of Goonswarm have stated many times that they go not create new accounts with plex or activate old accounts with plex to vote.


Yeah, it's especially strange when you consider the baseless accusations about how we would actually plex accounts to vote from all that isk we get from our moongoo.

Also I don't see a problem with 14% of the voting accounts being under 8 months old. If you are relatively new to a game you are much more involved than some bittervet that only logs in once every other week to change out a skill.
That players who started playing the game 2 months ago and are actively involved in the game have not enough grasp to understand what's going on is absolutely baseless conjecture. One could argue that most people that frequent this forum have no idea of what's going on, but since they are subscribed longer their voice is somehow more important?

Ask CCP for proper numbers, if you actually want to argue 'voter fraud'. Get the number of voters who have accounts that are under 2 months old and if most of the 14% are consisting of people that are subscribed for 2 months you have a point, but in this form it's just BS.
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-09-09 12:35:57 UTC
Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.

While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot.
I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though.
Frying Doom
#7 - 2012-09-09 12:47:09 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.

While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot.
I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though.

I chose 2 as I thought that was the fee for the Alliance tourny.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-09-09 12:49:12 UTC
I'm pretty sure the AT fee was 10 Plex, so about 5b.
Frying Doom
#9 - 2012-09-09 12:50:08 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

How strange that you would get defensive on this when members of Goonswarm have stated many times that they go not create new accounts with plex or activate old accounts with plex to vote.


Yeah, it's especially strange when you consider the baseless accusations about how we would actually plex accounts to vote from all that isk we get from our moongoo.

Also I don't see a problem with 14% of the voting accounts being under 8 months old. If you are relatively new to a game you are much more involved than some bittervet that only logs in once every other week to change out a skill.
That players who started playing the game 2 months ago and are actively involved in the game have not enough grasp to understand what's going on is absolutely baseless conjecture. One could argue that most people that frequent this forum have no idea of what's going on, but since they are subscribed longer their voice is somehow more important?

Ask CCP for proper numbers, if you actually want to argue 'voter fraud'. Get the number of voters who have accounts that are under 2 months old and if most of the 14% are consisting of people that are subscribed for 2 months you have a point, but in this form it's just BS.

CCP do not store more specific numbers or if they do they have not released them even though this subject has occured after every election for the last few years.

And as I said below 3 months to not be able to vote is not really loosing anyone who knows what the CSM really does, while preventing vote fraud is a lot more important.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Frying Doom
#10 - 2012-09-09 12:52:02 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
I'm pretty sure the AT fee was 10 Plex, so about 5b.

Yeah it was 10 plex, but that might be a bit high that is almost real money.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2012-09-09 21:44:00 UTC
If i had to pay to be a CSM, i don't think I would have run.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

CliveWarren
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-09-10 01:49:47 UTC
Great idea, Frying Doom!

...wait, what do you mean you didn't actually want nothing but powerbloc candidates?
Sal Volatile
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-09-10 03:17:08 UTC
I bet blocs hate this idea the way Brer Rabbit hates the briar patch.
Signal11th
#14 - 2012-09-11 09:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Polly Oxford wrote:
Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.

While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot.
I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though.



No basically for the reason that everyone should be able to stand, this way you are just inviting the more well off in real life or in EVE to be the only ones able to stand.

Even if a new guy with only 1mil isk and 2 weeks playing experience wants to stand he should be able to.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-09-11 13:09:57 UTC
But they obviously have a chance of promoting their ideas in the preliminary phase. 5b is really not much isk in the first place and like I said everyone who has a semi-popular agenda should be able to raise that much money.

The preliminaries in this CSM election were a big joke, since we just upvoted everyone, just to get more hilarious posts out of obvious joke candidates. If every 'like' would come with a 50m fee people wouldn't just upvote every ****** candidate. A 5b entrance fee is the closest thing we could get to that model.
Frying Doom
#16 - 2012-09-11 13:21:02 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:
Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.

While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot.
I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though.



No basically for the reason that everyone should be able to stand, this way you are just inviting the more well off in real life or in EVE to be the only ones able to stand.

Even if a new guy with only 1mil isk and 2 weeks playing experience wants to stand he should be able to.

And he can he just needs to know how to make isk really well in his one to 2 weeks or buy plexs. But if he earned it in game then he really would be a good CSM candidate.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Signal11th
#17 - 2012-09-11 13:24:56 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:
Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.

While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot.
I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though.



No basically for the reason that everyone should be able to stand, this way you are just inviting the more well off in real life or in EVE to be the only ones able to stand.

Even if a new guy with only 1mil isk and 2 weeks playing experience wants to stand he should be able to.

And he can he just needs to know how to make isk really well in his one to 2 weeks or buy plexs. But if he earned it in game then he really would be a good CSM candidate.



??? I hope you are trolling?

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Frying Doom
#18 - 2012-09-11 13:26:21 UTC
CliveWarren wrote:
Great idea, Frying Doom!

...wait, what do you mean you didn't actually want nothing but powerbloc candidates?

I would be worried about having people on the CSM that could not get a mere 2 Billion is. I prefer 2 Billion if preference to 5 billion as it is a hurdle but still a small one but it will limit the number of joke candidates.

The CSM members are supposed to be people who know how the game works over all or in a specific area but as they all require isk to function, I believe isk is a reasonable measure of success.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Frying Doom
#19 - 2012-09-11 13:44:54 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:
Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.

While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot.
I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though.



No basically for the reason that everyone should be able to stand, this way you are just inviting the more well off in real life or in EVE to be the only ones able to stand.

Even if a new guy with only 1mil isk and 2 weeks playing experience wants to stand he should be able to.

And he can he just needs to know how to make isk really well in his one to 2 weeks or buy plexs. But if he earned it in game then he really would be a good CSM candidate.



??? I hope you are trolling?

About as much as you. Having newbies run for election would just fill it up and make it even more gameable than it is now. What do we do if for example Test wanted to run 100 of their newbie members for the CSM it would shut down the elections as they can get the 100 likes each that they need right now.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

CliveWarren
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-09-11 13:47:26 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I would be worried about having people on the CSM that could not get a mere 2 Billion is. I prefer 2 Billion if preference to 5 billion as it is a hurdle but still a small one but it will limit the number of joke candidates.

The CSM members are supposed to be people who know how the game works over all or in a specific area but as they all require isk to function, I believe isk is a reasonable measure of success.


It's not a matter of having 2 billion, it's a matter of being able to spare 2 billion just to become a candidate.

This is a volunteer position at the end of the day. Having players pay to become that is just cynical and wrong. There's other ways you can reduce joke/no-hope candidates without doing this.
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