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Call For Discussion : CSM Voting Reform

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serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#221 - 2012-09-08 20:45:44 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
serras bang wrote:
however everyone should pick 3 candidates and the votes should never be in the candidates hands as that promots fixing if none of the 3 voted for guys make it the voter vote dosent get counted.

You make absolutely no sense.

Everyone should pick 3 candidates, but the candidates should be unable to tell people who to vote for, and none of the 3 guys people vote for doesn't get counted?

I've literally no idea what the **** you're trying to get at, I can't deparse it.

He means the VOTERS should choose alternates, not have candidates themselves do it.

For example if a bunch of candidates choose one another.. but they're all too small all the votes go poof.


no the candidates never have the chance to pass on votes if none of the candidates the voter chosses get on csm the votes go poof
Holander Switzerland
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2012-09-08 20:46:04 UTC
So what exactly is stopping people from gaming this poorly thought out, purposely misleading, pseudo-STV system?
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#223 - 2012-09-08 20:46:38 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
serras bang wrote:
i like this guy he gets what the voters want.

also as i said before i think the csm has to be draged kicking and screaming into everyones mind that playes the game to get a true majority of the game voting.

however everyone should pick 3 candidates and the votes should never be in the candidates hands as that promots fixing if none of the 3 voted for guys make it the voter vote dosent get counted.

So you have to force the voters into things, that's what the voters want?

Nice.


i never said force but a lot of people dont know about csm or what they do heance they never even get the option of voting
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2012-09-08 20:50:25 UTC
You can't make the CSM elections more public than last time without forcing everybody to vote.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2012-09-08 20:51:49 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Aryth wrote:
You mean how it seems like half the CSM minutes are related to the election/Mittens in some form? That meeting took place months ago. So clearly this has been being kicked around for months.


It seems that way, but they aren't. A lot of that stems from the fact that the first session was documented using the transcript format we later decided was cumbersome, and tossed out. This left a lot of the players with the misunderstanding that the CSM cares more about its own internal bureaucratic structure than about the actual issues existing in the game.

Discussion about electoral reform has been kicked around for much longer than a few months, this is hardly some new, strange obsession of CSM7's. Players have been talking about this for years, and will very likely continue until we actually see electoral reform.


What's your stance on it? You typically remain politically neutral and never take a side on any argument. Are you for or against reform?

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#226 - 2012-09-08 20:57:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Would prefer they do away with CSM and find some other way of creating a concensus with the userbase.

.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2012-09-08 20:59:08 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
What's your stance on it? You typically remain politically neutral and never take a side on any argument. Are you for or against reform?

Looks like he was for it, until he saw the way the wind was blowing, then he switched over to "It's not mine! Nuh uh!".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2012-09-08 21:09:30 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
What's your stance on it? You typically remain politically neutral and never take a side on any argument. Are you for or against reform?

Looks like he was for it, until he saw the way the wind was blowing, then he switched over to "It's not mine! Nuh uh!".


Sounds about right.

He played the same game with Greyscale's new gate gun mechanics.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#229 - 2012-09-08 21:10:01 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Would prefer they do away with CSM and find some other way of creating a census with the userbase.



CSM 6 did a good job, so eliminating it outright because of two bad examples (CSM 5, CSM 7) is silly.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2012-09-08 21:13:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirane Elrek
Andski wrote:
CSM 6 did a good job, so eliminating it outright because of two bad examples (CSM 5, CSM 7) is silly.

On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of CSMs so far were utterly ****.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#231 - 2012-09-08 21:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: serras bang
Sirane Elrek wrote:
You can't make the CSM elections more public than last time without forcing everybody to vote.


really cause i heard squat i didnt even know the vote had come and gone. anyways i think im getting of point just making the say that it has be be put out plane smack in the face of everyone also.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2012-09-08 21:32:36 UTC
serras bang wrote:
Sirane Elrek wrote:
You can't make the CSM elections more public than last time without forcing everybody to vote.


really cause i heard squat i didnt even know the vote had come and gone. anyways i think im getting of point just making the say that it has be be put out plane smack in the face of everyone also.

Bravo, you've ignored the email, the logon splashscreen, the evemails, the local spam, the press in gaming media, etc etc etc.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2012-09-08 21:33:07 UTC
It's been publicized on the login screen, on the character select, on the homepage, on the forums. Several candidates have sent out evemail spam. If you willingly ignore all of that, there's nothing left to do save for forcing you to vote.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#234 - 2012-09-08 21:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Andski wrote:
Revolution Rising wrote:
Would prefer they do away with CSM and find some other way of creating a census with the userbase.



CSM 6 did a good job, so eliminating it outright because of two bad examples (CSM 5, CSM 7) is silly.


meh, Mittani just does what he wants and leaves 90% of the playerbase to rot, these guys seem kind of powerless and ineffectual...

(More than?) Half these candidates ran on a platform of "reforming industry" - next expansion is called "War"... enough said ?

I have honestly lost all faith in it.

Basically CCP does whatever, these guys hear about it in advance, they then answer questions in the forums for the next 6 months until the expansion is out.

Should someone who helped their efforts early on - and I still have the personal mails sent by more then half these CSM's for posting many times in their threads when they were being elected - suddenly up and ask "wtf?" we're met with derisive snorts and blatant politicking.

I see no efforts to afford any of the concerns in the industry papercuts thread, that so many people added to for a long time any kind of credible representation. Apart from the two or three that were most often repeated - which again CCP could do that themselves.

I fail to see a valid reason for the CSM to continue in its' "contribution" in its' present form.

.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#235 - 2012-09-08 21:45:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
nada

.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#236 - 2012-09-08 22:08:52 UTC
Sirane Elrek wrote:
It's been publicized on the login screen, on the character select, on the homepage, on the forums. Several candidates have sent out evemail spam. If you willingly ignore all of that, there's nothing left to do save for forcing you to vote.


there was nothing that stood out to make me pay atention and i got no mail from anyone in this mass spam
Katsumi Shimazu
Star F-ckers INC.
#237 - 2012-09-08 22:53:16 UTC
just get the game fixed, then worry about "voting reform"
RDevz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#238 - 2012-09-08 23:20:42 UTC
serras bang wrote:

there was nothing that stood out to make me pay atention and i got no mail from anyone in this mass spam


Did you even start the game client? How could you miss the big "vote" banner without being wilfully ignorant of the entire CSM process?

It's reasonable to assume that someone who's managed to avoid all exposure to the CSM process, yet who is forced to vote, will pick candidates at random. This means that it'll artificially inflate the perceived number of people who voted for the Official Monster Raving Loony Party candidate, while having no effect on the winner or their absolute margin of victory.

~
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#239 - 2012-09-08 23:55:38 UTC
RDevz wrote:
It's reasonable to assume that someone who's managed to avoid all exposure to the CSM process, yet who is forced to vote, will pick candidates at random. This means that it'll artificially inflate the perceived number of people who voted for the Official Monster Raving Loony Party candidate, while having no effect on the winner or their absolute margin of victory.

Let's just also assume there's an infinite number of morons there (to vote for) so the person bring forced to vote, who votes at random, has an effect that approaches zero.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#240 - 2012-09-09 00:28:50 UTC
Whenever politicians discuss making changes to the ways of voting one and all should be very very wary. I say the current system should be left alone. You want my vote? Earn it. Sell yourself to me like a used ho bag