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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Jumpclone courier contracts!

First post
Author
Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-09-07 15:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bruce Bayne
The Idea:
You can make courier contracts with your jumpclones like with any other item.
They are then in inactive Pods that can be shipped around.
You put a reward on them, also colleteral.
Active clones can't be shipped (makes sense)^^
Only courier contracts are allowed.
(If the Hauler gets killed your Pod can drop at a 50% rate. )
(Restrictions which ships can transport Pods)
Size of capsule about 100m³.
(Shuttles get extra role for capsules and can carry up to 2?)
Capsules can drop like any other item at a 50% chance when transporter gets shot.

This was basically the idea, the following options are just ideas that i had what else could be implemented with clones.
But the primary thing i want ingame are the courier contracts for clones in inactive Pods.

Option1 : Implant refinery
-when a transport gets shot there is a 50% chance that the corpse as a whole will drop like any other loot
-now you can scoop the Pod and see what implants are in clone(same information you get whe scanning with an cargo scanner as the attacker)
-now the interesting part....make corpses refineable. effecting skills on refining chance are cybernetics and/or refining
-you can refine at any station with an refining service and/or medical station
-your possible loot will be the head in a yar and/or one finger of the corpse with the pilots name on it
also HIS IMPLANTS! implant refining chance goes in 15% steps with every skilllvl you get, so maximum refining chance
is 75% at lvl 5
-Instead of implementing the skill make the scooped Pods refineable by rightclick. Then you get 1 random implant fro the Clone, rest gets destroyed.(as purposed by Alundil)

Option 2: Instead of harvesting clones, you could scoop them and ransom the owner back.
So you still have the commercial reason of collecting clones.
But we would need some kind of clone scanner, so you can actually see witch implants the clone has.
Maybe let it list the implants that are in the clone by show info.


Positive:
-You can get a jumclone anywhere and place them with the help of other players to any station.
-You basically pay people for your lazyness and emtpy clones = low colleteral = newer transport players can get into the market and earn some money without paying large amounts of colleteral.
-You have no longer the issue with jumping like a maniac for some roam meet spots that change every time^^
-Little ISK sink :)
-free implants :P
-scooping Pods has an economic sense now
-infiltration of Nullsec stations
-new strategic and logistic oppurtunities
-end of powerblocks?
-redefinition for clone vat bays?
-...Insert here...


Negative:
-People get lazy?
-Too easy money for transporters?
-Implant market could drop a little(Option 1)
-infiltration of Nullsec stations
-...Insert here...

Discuss :)

P.S. English is not my first language so please don't be offended by errors ;)

*Updated*
LtauSTinpoWErs
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-11-14 18:01:35 UTC
Hmmm. I think it is interesting but I wouldn't allow people to harvest the implants. There should be two scenarios in regards to having a clone drop from a transport ship.

Option 1: Clone is destroyed in hauler's destruction along with implants

Option 2: Clone drops from the loot. However, only the clone's owner can use that clone. Now, the person that picked up the clone can ransom it back to its original owner. If the original owner wants it back, he/she will have to pay for it. If it is a blank clone, I doubt the owner will pay for it. However, if it is a High Grade Set of some sort, I imagine that the owner will pay 50-60% of the value to get it back.
Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-16 08:23:24 UTC
Hey finally someone puts his mind on this idea thanks :)

Yeah that point with harvesting clones was more like a "option" that could maybe force some more pvp, but it iss just a bonus to the main idea.
First i want that damn courier contracts^^
And that idea with the ransoming is also a nice meta game tactic.
I will put it in my first post ;)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#4 - 2012-12-17 00:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
i like the idea. I was often in the situation where i wanted to move my clone but didn't want to jump for some reason.

edit: little problem: you could smuggle a clone to a station where the clone normaly couln't dock. But eve could prohibit this or allow it intentionally... so its not a show stopper

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-12-17 15:32:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bruce Bayne
Bienator II wrote:
i like the idea. I was often in the situation where i wanted to move my clone but didn't want to jump for some reason.

edit: little problem: you could smuggle a clone to a station where the clone normaly couln't dock. But eve could prohibit this or allow it intentionally... so its not a show stopper


yeah i did not think of that. thanks for the reply.

but i think you can easily avoid this error, if you would let the game check if you have the needed standings to dock. otherwise you just get a error message that says something like "you are not allowed to dock there so gtfo^^"

but on the other hand this option would bring a totally new kind of metagaming. like someone from a big alliance lets his spy at another allaince put all the fleets clones into the station and then, bang you hit them from behind :P (no homo)
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#6 - 2012-12-17 19:25:59 UTC
i like the option 2 idea of ransoming the jumpclone back to a player especially if its a pricey one. cause if they dont buy it.. you can sell it to corpse collectors.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-17 19:57:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Quote:
-your possible loot will be the head in a yar and/or one finger of the corpse with the pilots name on it
also HIS IMPLANTS! implant refining chance goes in 15% steps with every skilllvl you get, so maximum refining chance
is 75% at lvl 5

No. That would reduce isk sinks in the game, and it doesn't really seem that fun. Nor as profitable as you think, because the prices of implants would plummet overnight due to vast demand spikes, possibly to a small fraction of what they are now.

EVERY pirate ever would train that skill up to level 5, or have at least somebody in the gang with it, so it would be 75% across the board, which means 4x the supply roughly and (very roughly) 1/4 the price at market (supply and demand are not perfect 45 degree lines, but that's my best guess without data).
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#8 - 2012-12-17 21:07:23 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Quote:
-your possible loot will be the head in a yar and/or one finger of the corpse with the pilots name on it
also HIS IMPLANTS! implant refining chance goes in 15% steps with every skilllvl you get, so maximum refining chance
is 75% at lvl 5

No. That would reduce isk sinks in the game, and it doesn't really seem that fun. Nor as profitable as you think, because the prices of implants would plummet overnight due to vast demand spikes, possibly to a small fraction of what they are now.

EVERY pirate ever would train that skill up to level 5, or have at least somebody in the gang with it, so it would be 75% across the board, which means 4x the supply roughly and (very roughly) 1/4 the price at market (supply and demand are not perfect 45 degree lines, but that's my best guess without data).


maybe a 1% or lower chance to getan implant from reprocessing corpses into biomass. then said biomass can be used to make Quafe zero (see the cronicle about quafe)

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-12-18 10:49:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bruce Bayne
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Quote:
-your possible loot will be the head in a yar and/or one finger of the corpse with the pilots name on it
also HIS IMPLANTS! implant refining chance goes in 15% steps with every skilllvl you get, so maximum refining chance
is 75% at lvl 5

No. That would reduce isk sinks in the game, and it doesn't really seem that fun. Nor as profitable as you think, because the prices of implants would plummet overnight due to vast demand spikes, possibly to a small fraction of what they are now.

EVERY pirate ever would train that skill up to level 5, or have at least somebody in the gang with it, so it would be 75% across the board, which means 4x the supply roughly and (very roughly) 1/4 the price at market (supply and demand are not perfect 45 degree lines, but that's my best guess without data).


Yeah thats true it would impact the market. But impacting the market in a controllable way is not bad :P
I see your point and that you are scared that buying implants from LP-Stores would not bring as much money as it does today. But i dont like that having corpses has no direct market impact for everyone.
The only people that really earn something when capsules die are LP- Farmers and Killboardwhores^^

A compromise would be to lower the percentage to like 5% per skill lvl. (The 75% was just a number that i threw in the room. It is not finite ;) )

Also we would have a larger ISK- shift. So the 101 pvpnoob would also have the chance to get some money out of killing pods like any bitter vet :)

P.S. i like the quafe idea xD
Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-02-22 09:26:28 UTC
The idea was not in the latest patchnotes, so keep liking it :P

Also to clear up some misunderstandings.

The basic idea is only the "Jumpclone courier contract"

This two options are just options to think/discuss about.

So first we need to get the contracts ingame, then we can talk about what is also doable with corpses ;)


*monthly bump
Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-04-20 09:15:46 UTC
bump :)
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-04-20 15:07:04 UTC
I think there should be a Forum option to remove old bumping posts...

About the Jump clone stuff. I liked the Idea. well, part of it. Allowing Clones to be transported is somewhat interesting. But they should be in the POD. This would make corporation migration easier... as you put all clones in a JF, Jump dock and you get a JC for most of your corp members in the desired station.

I don't like the Idea of salvaging implants...

I think that if the ship drop the clone pod, it should stay in the space as a scoopable object. And if the owner activates the clone he would wake in this pod. Also, if the POD is inside other ship, it would drop.

This would create interesting betrayal oportunitys. As a Spy could bring clones inside a POS, that will activate and steal the floating capital ships inside of it.
Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-04-20 16:26:19 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
I think there should be a Forum option to remove old bumping posts...

About the Jump clone stuff. I liked the Idea. well, part of it. Allowing Clones to be transported is somewhat interesting. But they should be in the POD. This would make corporation migration easier... as you put all clones in a JF, Jump dock and you get a JC for most of your corp members in the desired station.

I don't like the Idea of salvaging implants...

I think that if the ship drop the clone pod, it should stay in the space as a scoopable object. And if the owner activates the clone he would wake in this pod. Also, if the POD is inside other ship, it would drop.

This would create interesting betrayal oportunitys. As a Spy could bring clones inside a POS, that will activate and steal the floating capital ships inside of it.


Hey Alx thanks for your reply.

Yes that bumping posts are a little tyring, but otherwise i would have to start the topic every month again .... and that would suck too :P

About that POD thing i think it is a good idea. I will add that to my post. But i guess pod sizes must be reduced then to like 5 times clone size to keep it transportable.

The salvaging thing is just an option that came into my mind, but it is not part of the basic idea. Just a little impulse to make something similar and better maybe.

So keep discussing, bumping, liking etc. :)
Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#14 - 2013-04-21 06:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrael Dinn
This sounds all actualy interesting and might have alot of implementions.

I do see few problems with this one (game mechanics that most likely will say no to the whole idea) and I would not allow the transportation of clones without the clonevat module.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-04-21 13:50:14 UTC
Just say goodbye to your implants and take the pod express.
Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-04-21 22:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bruce Bayne
Azrael Dinn wrote:
This sounds all actualy interesting and might have alot of implementions.

I do see few problems with this one (game mechanics that most likely will say no to the whole idea) and I would not allow the transportation of clones without the clonevat module.


Well i guess things would need to change a little, but i think overall it would be an improvement.
And about the clone vet bays... i dont want them removed, but their usage is very limited and if you could just transport inactive pods around it would create new player driven content.

@ Apostrof

Yes you are right, this would be one way of doing it, but there are some drawbacks:

- your clone gets destroyed with all the implants which you could still use if you have the time to let someone transport it to the destination.
- also there are not always stations with medicine bays where you want to have your clone which can be problematic.

Edit: again thanks for your replies
Ichiro Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-06-07 19:11:50 UTC
As has been pointed before, this directly overlaps with the idea of carriers actually being carriers. This even has also been voted with a resounding YES from CSM a few years back, but the answer was the already cited: "We can't place two player objects inside a ship" , prompting many responses from players pointing out that you don't need the passenger player to ever enter the carrier as far as the database is concerned. You only need a "pseudo station" for players and their ships to be put while inside the carrier to keep them occupied and a few teleport commands when they undock, are forced out, the carrier pilot disconnects or the carrier went boom.

As far as I know CCP never responded to this and CSM never bothered to bring it up again with the updated implementation to back it up. But as it is something that has been requested many times, been endorsed by the CSM and intended by CCP when they developed the carriers.

So what's your input on this? Do you think we should convince the current CSM to pitch this to CCP with the new ideas?
Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-06-16 11:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Bruce Bayne
Ichiro Kumamato wrote:
As has been pointed before, this directly overlaps with the idea of carriers actually being carriers. This even has also been voted with a resounding YES from CSM a few years back, but the answer was the already cited: "We can't place two player objects inside a ship" , prompting many responses from players pointing out that you don't need the passenger player to ever enter the carrier as far as the database is concerned. You only need a "pseudo station" for players and their ships to be put while inside the carrier to keep them occupied and a few teleport commands when they undock, are forced out, the carrier pilot disconnects or the carrier went boom.

As far as I know CCP never responded to this and CSM never bothered to bring it up again with the updated implementation to back it up. But as it is something that has been requested many times, been endorsed by the CSM and intended by CCP when they developed the carriers.

So what's your input on this? Do you think we should convince the current CSM to pitch this to CCP with the new ideas?


Intersting, i did not know that thank you for the reply.
But i guess the problem they have is that inactive pods are not treated like "items" at the moment. They seem just to be a "copy" of the player.

So if the inactive pod coding would be changed to let them be items when inactive and be stored in "pod hangars" inside carriers/capitals etc. then it should work doesnt it?
But you cant jump into your clone while its in the carrier. I guess that wont work and thats what the clone vats are for.

And for highsec the orca could take the job as it is a capital too.

So to sum it up.
Inactive pods probably need some recoding so capital ships can carry them in cargo. Players cant jump into it while transported. As soon as the carrier drops the pods into a station or a supercapital, then you can clonejump to that moved clone.
If the capital with the load dies, then it drops the corpses with 50% chance as any other loot.

I guess that this could work.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#19 - 2013-06-17 01:03:12 UTC
Not seeing how this can't be abused.


CCP wants implants to be permanent...so you aren't getting implants "salvaged". thats problem 1.

Problem 2 is you are giving people who no longer want their implants an easy out and they get paid back as a bene. I have a clone with HG talons that ccp has over years devalued. Several patches made probing easier and ccp killed unprobable long ago. Even have the recent sensor skills to boost this stat higher now.

Thier remaining grace is it works well against gurista. If I leave caldari space and say spam angels in mimatar this means jack ot me however (I can jsut turn down the occasional gurista mission and not care). And even HG talon'd I get jammed occasionally.

Even better is I am going slowy to gun pve and it has missile hardwwires I don't use fully anymore.


So....I courier my HG talon clone with collateral on contract to cover the implants and hardwires in it. I actually want all your bad tings to happen to it.

Courier gets ganked and clone loss or the gankers ransom me or the couriers gets the idea to break contract and ransom me. Either way to me is a desirable effect as the contract is not able to be completed....collateral payout time.

TBH...I'd see my contract picked up, I may just scout shortest route from source station to desto and gank the hauler myself on an alt if possible. Then wait for the dude sorry I lost your clone mail. Really?....awww man, that sucks. At least I have collateral to soften the blow, I was really attached to the clone though.....lol.
Bruce Bayne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-06-17 17:15:25 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Not seeing how this can't be abused.


CCP wants implants to be permanent...so you aren't getting implants "salvaged". thats problem 1.

Problem 2 is you are giving people who no longer want their implants an easy out and they get paid back as a bene. I have a clone with HG talons that ccp has over years devalued. Several patches made probing easier and ccp killed unprobable long ago. Even have the recent sensor skills to boost this stat higher now.

Thier remaining grace is it works well against gurista. If I leave caldari space and say spam angels in mimatar this means jack ot me however (I can jsut turn down the occasional gurista mission and not care). And even HG talon'd I get jammed occasionally.

Even better is I am going slowy to gun pve and it has missile hardwwires I don't use fully anymore.


So....I courier my HG talon clone with collateral on contract to cover the implants and hardwires in it. I actually want all your bad tings to happen to it.

Courier gets ganked and clone loss or the gankers ransom me or the couriers gets the idea to break contract and ransom me. Either way to me is a desirable effect as the contract is not able to be completed....collateral payout time.

TBH...I'd see my contract picked up, I may just scout shortest route from source station to desto and gank the hauler myself on an alt if possible. Then wait for the dude sorry I lost your clone mail. Really?....awww man, that sucks. At least I have collateral to soften the blow, I was really attached to the clone though.....lol.


And that is bad because....???

What you described is a perfect example of emergent gameplay and it is already done with contracts on regular items. And emergent gameplay is always a great thing. So this change would not make new "exploits" doable which are not already possible.

Also the salvage thing is just an option. Nice to have but not that important to me and as it seems to many others. Just as i stated in the OP.
But what i would like to see is an option for you to move your clones around without sitting yourself in a pod.
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