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Nerfing Highsec manufacuring and the "End of EVE" as we know it

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Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-09-06 22:58:20 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
Your income should be less then it is now. That's the heart of it. As an highsec industrialist, you will never be able to reach the heights you could reach in low or nullsec, and if you can, currently, then its a system failure. If you want to stay in highsec for your safe, assured, highsec money, then do it. But don't expect to make as much as the people willing to actually take risks. And no, "I'm a paying subscriber" is not justification for you to get preferential treatment. If I buy a boardgame, that doesn't mean I get to win because its 'my game' and if I do claim something like that, I'm probably 5.

In short: HTFU, this is eve.


This makes no sense whatsoever. System failure? Wtf? Roll

This is EVE, yes people need to HTFU but people need to also play smarter, not harder.

If someone can make billions in hi sec and be smart doing it, more power to them. If someone decides to go to Low/Null to make billions and they loose billions, we'll, sucks to be them.

Being an industrialist/marketeer is one of the riskiest things to do in EVE. You can loose billions EASY, if you are stupid and not paying attention and even if you are paying attention, Market PvP can still kick your ass. And all in Hi sec.

Risk doesnt just equate to blowing **** up. or being in Low/Null Sec. There is plenty of risk in hi sec as well.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-09-06 23:02:00 UTC
Russell Casey wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:

Oh you are talking about some comment made by a CCP dev about ideas that they're discussing, not actual changes that are being made.


Isn't that how it always goes? A Dev makes some random comment about nerfing a cushy source of EZ-income and the forums scream that it's the end of EVE.
Well sure, didn't ya know... EVE is realP
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Selinate
#43 - 2012-09-06 23:13:57 UTC
High sec is being nerfed?

Well this is the first I've heard about it. I have to do something about this!!!....

*sits in Jita and waits for the tears*
Frying Doom
#44 - 2012-09-06 23:21:00 UTC
Do not think of it as Hi-sec being nerfed just think of it as Lo-sec and Null being made a bit better

My biggest concerns are actually about those with no Manufacturing and refining capabilities, while living in an area harder than Null sec they rely on Hi-sec to process and manufacture.

This is of course Wormhole dwellers. Well hopefully the new POS system will help a lot for everyone with refining and manufacturing.

And as this looks like it deservers to be in Jita Park.

Insert regular speech "If you consider these changes radical or damaging to your way of play, Then either find a Candidate to support that has your interests or Run for the CSM yourself.

The CSM Your Voice when things get Nerfed"

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#45 - 2012-09-06 23:22:52 UTC
RAGE QU1T wrote:
So CCP wants to nerf High sec manufacturing , ok do it, if you think mods and ships are expensive now wait to see how much of an increase you will see with this nerf, and to confirm low sec is bleep and will forever be bleep and no amount of incentive will be enough for indy corps and alliances to move their assets to low sec to conduct their manufacurting under the illusion of IDK WTF??? after all this is a litter box and if i dont want i live in a certain part of space i dont have too, that's why i pay subs. i emplor every industirist to bat phone their CSM representative in hopes to find out WTF is CCP thinking about????

Discuss

http://www.evenews24.com/2012/09/06/jesters-trek-cogs/


Speak for yourself Forum Alt
Knight Cabbage
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-09-06 23:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Knight Cabbage
For smart high sec industrialists this will get very entertaining and profitable.
The low-sec and null-bear lobby is champaining again for hasseling high sec dwellers.
And they will achieve higher prices and higher profits for the industrialists.
Just keep on lobbying....
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-09-06 23:31:15 UTC
I love the idea that if a faction is losing it causes higher taxes for that faction. Don't like your favorite mission hub being taxed to death? Maybe move or better yet, join in FW and do something about it.

Also high sec manufacturing needs to be balanced. This is the first step. Keep in mind not all changes are going to be direct nerfs to high sec manufacturing.
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-09-06 23:31:25 UTC
Knight Cabbage wrote:
For smart high sec industrialists this will get very entertaining and profitable.
The low-sec and null-bear lobby is champaining again for hasseling high sec dwellers.
And they will achieve higher prices and higher profits for the industrialists.
Just keep on lobbying....


That's all well and good, but if your profits are coming from people leaving the game, then EVE (CCP) doesn't win.







I've said it before and I'll say it again, you won't drive people from high-sec into low-sec or null you'll just drive them from the game. Which is what will happen if you try to make low-sec and null more appealing at the expense of high-sec.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#49 - 2012-09-06 23:40:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
They need to remove the penalty on adv arrays and make them only anchorable in low/WH/0.0. Also reduce the material multiplier on stations and other POS mods that are in non highsec areas. No need to nerf high, just buff the others.

You really run into the risk of a mass exodus if you cut too deep. For some there really is no way you will get them to move, they will quit. Depending on the amount that quit, not only do you not boost pvp targets, but you will also lose many industrial pilots who keep the prices low. Worst case scenario but still possible.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Frying Doom
#50 - 2012-09-06 23:51:14 UTC
Sabrina Solette wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you won't drive people from high-sec into low-sec or null you'll just drive them from the game. Which is what will happen if you try to make low-sec and null more appealing at the expense of high-sec.

These changes are not about moving people from Hi-sec to low and Null. This is about balancing risk vs reward in the game.

Rather than just giving lo and Null super buffs, this is about balancing it from both sides. So a little from Column A and a Little to Column B,C and DSmile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-09-06 23:53:05 UTC
RAGE QU1T wrote:
ok, lets say for sake of argument i relocate to low sec. what incentives would be good enough for that kind of move? for instance places like Tama, Amamake, Sagain, and the infamous pirate haven Rancer.


Drugs? Really good drugs?

Seriously, there are plenty of empty low sec systems, you'd be insane to pick a pirate haven.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-09-06 23:55:25 UTC
Knight Cabbage wrote:
For smart high sec industrialists this will get very entertaining and profitable.
The low-sec and null-bear lobby is champaining again for hasseling high sec dwellers.
And they will achieve higher prices and higher profits for the industrialists.
Just keep on lobbying....


Raising the barrier to entry will help established industrialists. Newbies will get it in the shorts, as usual.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#53 - 2012-09-06 23:57:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Encouraging Nullsec & Lowsec production is a good thing... Increase the install cost to 200k, and increase the cost per hour by 100 fold.. (33300.isk per hr). Then it would costs 800k isk per day to operate a MF slot. Manufacturers will just move the cost to the consumer... So most goods will increase in cost by 10-30%.

A dual 180mm autocannon II would increase from 1.1m to 1.2m to produce....
A 150mm autocannon II would increase from 500k to 560k to produce....

T2 ammo would increase quite a bit... because it has a long production time
Scorch M would increase by 140k isk per crystal
Null L would increase by 225 isk per round... (from 1200 isk to 1400 isk)....

This would actually be a VERY good isk sink for the game (150-300m isk per month per full-time hisec character).
This would very much encourage people to use POS's (if you're spending 200m isk / month already, why not do it in your own pos)
To use the POS's, players are encouraged to war-deccable PLAYER corps, and there are more targets in space....

Then quarter this rates in lowsec & NPC nullsec, and leave it Corp definable in Sov nullsec...

The consumers are the people that will see a general price increase... but so what.... it's an isk sink, and it encourages people to take risks for profits... Highsec producers will mostly stay in highsec...
Pipa Porto
#54 - 2012-09-07 00:08:22 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
They need to remove the penalty on adv arrays and make them only anchorable in low/WH/0.0. Also reduce the material multiplier on stations and other POS mods that are in non highsec areas. No need to nerf high, just buff the others.

You really run into the risk of a mass exodus if you cut too deep. For some there really is no way you will get them to move, they will quit. Depending on the amount that quit, not only do you not boost pvp targets, but you will also lose many industrial pilots who keep the prices low. Worst case scenario but still possible.


You could make LS and Nullsec slots unlimited and free, and most industry (besides some research) would stay in HS. The ease of logistics is too large an advantage for HS manufacturing to be overcome without dramatically increasing the cost of doing business in HS.

A Freighter load of material can be moved anywhere in HS for about 15m ISK using RFF/Push. Moving the same amount of material out of LS costs around 120m. (Doing it yourself costs the same, unless you've decided your time/fuel is free).

Assuming a 10k ISK installation cost and 10k ISK/hr (massively over real manufacturing installation costs in HS), renting a manufacturing slot for a month costs less than 7m ISK. There are no shortage of open HS manufacturing slots. If LS manufacturing were free, you'd break even only if it took 15 months to make 1 freighterload of your items (and you could afford to sit on your goods for over a year).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
stoicfaux
#55 - 2012-09-07 00:10:13 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
Your income should be less then it is now. That's the heart of it. As an highsec industrialist, you will never be able to reach the heights you could reach in low or nullsec, and if you can, currently, then its a system failure. If you want to stay in highsec for your safe, assured, highsec money, then do it. But don't expect to make as much as the people willing to actually take risks. And no, "I'm a paying subscriber" is not justification for you to get preferential treatment. If I buy a boardgame, that doesn't mean I get to win because its 'my game' and if I do claim something like that, I'm probably 5.

In short: HTFU, this is eve.

Uhm... do you make more profit running a business in high-sec (say the US or Europe) than in null/lo-sec, such as Somalia?

Security, stability (e.g. reliable supply chain) and access to markets drive long term profits. Large scale industry and markets in low-sec aren't going to happen until low-sec isn't low security anymore.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-09-07 00:12:50 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you won't drive people from high-sec into low-sec or null you'll just drive them from the game. Which is what will happen if you try to make low-sec and null more appealing at the expense of high-sec.

These changes are not about moving people from Hi-sec to low and Null. This is about balancing risk vs reward in the game.

Rather than just giving lo and Null super buffs, this is about balancing it from both sides. So a little from Column A and a Little to Column B,C and DSmile



I don't know about these days but in 2009 I made far more in 0.0 than I ever did in high-sec.


It's like you won't drive people from NPC corps in high-sec into player corps, for various reasons.


New people struggle to make isk in high-sec at the start and you want to make it harder for them. As higher prices effects everyone not just those with more isk than they know what to do with.

Higher prices means more work to get the isk to PvP, more work equals less fun. When a game gets to a point were it's all work and no play it ceases to be a game and becomes little more than a time sink.

I just don't see anything good happening for this game if the PvPers keep hitting on high-sec with this risk Vs reward crap.
Rengerel en Distel
#57 - 2012-09-07 02:51:44 UTC
I too would like to get upset about changes that might happen after ships are rebalanced, and crimewatch is done, and the POS changes are in, and ... but I can't really get upset about the 2017 changes yet.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Gun Gal
Dark Club
#58 - 2012-09-07 05:03:46 UTC
so lets see....... in highsec, manufacturing is king, why? probobly the same frikin reason that in real life the DEVELOPED COUNTRIES are the best at it too.

you want to have third world countries be the best at manufatcuring and the like?

jesus christ, you loosers are bigger idiots than i thought, and if CCP goes for this good luck on holding subs.

ill look on from the sidelines as the game with the greatest potential ever is nerfed into oblivion by the minority of loudmouthed whiners.

ive seen alot over the past 9 years of EVE, but this last year is really gettin rediculous, stupid ideas, stupid buisness practices, and catering to the vocal minority.

CCP, seriously take a good look what your doing, and to you vocal minority pushing for ******** changes, if i could reach though my computer screen and slap you with a dead fish, i probobly would.

prob get a ban on this post, but so what, ill just post on another account

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#59 - 2012-09-07 05:15:17 UTC
Gun Gal wrote:
jesus christ, you loosers are bigger idiots than i thought, and if CCP goes for this good luck on holding subs.

ill look on from the sidelines as the game with the greatest potential ever is nerfed into oblivion by the minority of loudmouthed whiners.

Yeah I mean sheesh, moving towards being low-risk good-enough-reward is totally the wrong thing to do just because some people scream when they're ganked.

Ah well, I guess we'll just have to let them take the gun buffing and then maybe we'll see about more CONCORD buffs.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frying Doom
#60 - 2012-09-07 05:20:22 UTC
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you won't drive people from high-sec into low-sec or null you'll just drive them from the game. Which is what will happen if you try to make low-sec and null more appealing at the expense of high-sec.

These changes are not about moving people from Hi-sec to low and Null. This is about balancing risk vs reward in the game.

Rather than just giving lo and Null super buffs, this is about balancing it from both sides. So a little from Column A and a Little to Column B,C and DSmile



I don't know about these days but in 2009 I made far more in 0.0 than I ever did in high-sec.


It's like you won't drive people from NPC corps in high-sec into player corps, for various reasons.


New people struggle to make isk in high-sec at the start and you want to make it harder for them. As higher prices effects everyone not just those with more isk than they know what to do with.

Higher prices means more work to get the isk to PvP, more work equals less fun. When a game gets to a point were it's all work and no play it ceases to be a game and becomes little more than a time sink.

I just don't see anything good happening for this game if the PvPers keep hitting on high-sec with this risk Vs reward crap.

Interesting Point, Shame I am an industrialist not a PvPer.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!