EVE General Discussion

Bottom line difficult production will increase the costs of the items produced. Difficult can be measured by tax increases, passed on, or shipping difficulties, costs passed on. So yea maybe stuff can be made cheaper in low or null but moving it to markets in high sec will add cost. In the end the high sec will still be able to compete with low or null. Which is kinda the point behind the whole thing to make all three places competitive with each other. Again though in the end it means higher prices on everything.

I leave you all with something to ponder. Imagine if Jita was in low sec?! Think about your production and supply lines.
Costs will go up. Bet on it.

Must be true if you say so.

That could easily have been an actual quote from the 18th or 19th century as urbanization began in earnest and the country side became just that .. the country side.

The idea that you have vast amounts (read: majority of) of manufactured goods pouring out of metropolitan areas is quite frankly ludicrous, yet that is 'reality' in Eve. What if Ford had one of their 3k employee plants in central NY/Manhatten .. hard to imagine, isn't it?
Problem with a direct comparison to the real world is of course that Eve does not currently have the bureaucratic side of trading (Ex: Wall Street) so a merchant in Eve is generally also the manufacturer.

All that needs be done (on top of general LS/Null industry boost) is to add system security as a modifier on everything associated with manufactured goods.
- Would move bulk industry to periphery of Empire (not necessarily low-sec).
- Would increase traffic and all the glorious tears that produces.
- Would neuter the hubs somewhat by allowing new, smaller hubs to evolve naturally (see above, less tears with shorter travel required).
- Etc.

CCP really should devote some more time to the economic aspect of Eve. Very rudimentary as it is.

I think the answer lies within the post you're quoting, take another look.

TL:DR: CCP has to really give it a lot of thought before doing anything.

Across the board Increases in manufacturing install costs and costs per hour would disproportionally affect newer players, example being the tutorial missions.

A 200k install cost is no big deal to an older player making a month's worth of battleships. It's a much bigger deal to a newer player who's been told to manufacture a civilian shuttle or whatever during the tutorial.

I think there might be a way to resolve this sort of thing though.

Each industry assembly line already has a property that affects what items can be installed on it.
This suggests it would be possible to alter the properties of that assembly line, so that it can produce tech 1 ships, but not tech 2 ships, for example. Or adjust build times for them.
Modules seem to be their own category, but that might be able to be changed.

So, you could have highsec installations which would build tech 2 things at a slower rate, or not at all. maybe.

That would tend to move tech2 production onto war deccable POS, or into lowsec/nullsec, where there'd then be a possibility of there being high value cargoes to intercept. There'd also be a nerf to some tech 2 ship bpo production if they cannot be built in highsec stations. Some bpo owners might use copies to build from, which results in a big drop in production because of the differences in copy/build time, (iirc, it's quicker to build from a bpo than it is to make a single copy of one). This nerf may be undesirable.

Past experiences of the playerbase may come in here though, regarding the ability of players to intercept cargoes in transit. Jump freighters, blockade runners with covert cloaks, and such things, these have already been complained bitterly about by many players, who see these high value cargoes pass through lowsec, and are unable to do anything about it. (such things as jumping to a POS, then warping straight to a highsec gate, not much opportunity to intercept).

So, restricting highsec's ability to produce tech2 items, would risk annoying greatly some tech2 bpo owners, and may not actually provide any increase in high value cargoes to intercept in lowsec. Nobody really benefits if that happened. Awkward.

Those things would need CCP to look at them carefully and make a decision about what to do.


Refining rates are another thing. Altering refining/reprocessing returns has the possibility to re-introduce the insurance isk fountain, by altering the scrap value of ships. If the net insurance payout is higher than the reprocessing rate, then it's better to blow the ship up and introduce new isk out of nowhere, than to reprocess and sell, which merely moves isk around.

There'd also be an effect on the value of lowsec/nullsec minerals. Because POS refining is so terrible and time consuming, it's often better to refine in station. Or if in wormholes, to transport raw minerals through the wormhole into empire space, to refine where you want to sell the minerals. Lowering the refining rate makes the cargo less valuable as a whole, or introduces an intermediate step of refining in a lowsec station, then transporting it, which requires more people, for security.

Scrap reprocessing also has a somewhat annoying tendency for the volume of things to balloon. A ship load of scrap modules becomes 4 or more shiploads of minerals, which introduces a whole lot of expense in moving it around.


There is also the fundamental problem, that moving things around is dull. If an escort is required, they have to be paid, and they have to be enough that nothing happens. I.e. paid to do nothing. While being paid to do nothing is great in RL, in a game it's somewhat dull.


So, altering manufacturing costs and refining/reprocessing rates in highsec, could have effects on new players, some t2 bpo owners, lowsec piracy, wormhole dwellers, and market traders. Not just people that build stuff in highsec.

In addition to this, moving production and refining onto POS has to have the problem of POS being Terrible addressed first.

CCP has to really give it an appropriate amount of thought before doing anything.

Oh where do I sign up for riding unicorns and farting rainbows?

You know I am starting to get this sneaking suspicion more people will have wished they Voted in the CSM elections.

I know this must be the new CSM add campaign.

Vote or Suffer.

In other words, someone who has ignored 90% of the game.


In other words, this is definitely the kind of person you would not want represented anywhere, because they know so little of the game that whatever they would come up with would most likely be so nearsighted as to be game-breaking, more often than not.


This is an absolute **** comeback, you should be ashamed for using it.

So, can you prove I'm one of these "hiseccers"?

Two facts:
- I've been in lowsec with covops frigate.
- I've mined in w-space many times.

Is it my fault that you or anyone else didn't have a chance to shoot me?

If Jita were in LS, a new primary trade hub would arise in HS. Maybe Perimiter.

There's nothing particularly special about Jita that says: make a trade hub here. I mean, there used to be some reasons (the agents, etc), but trade hubs rely on the easy and cheap logistics that HS allows.