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HOW TO KILL (most) MINING BOTS

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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-09-02 02:14:41 UTC
Thats so wrong idea. lol nice try but very wrong perhaps in high sec you can do that like a law or so but null sec hell no.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#22 - 2012-09-02 02:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Jack Tronic wrote:
Captchas were effective 14 years ago. Right now there are services which you just transmit the captcha screenshot and get the result back in just a few seconds. How? They outsourced the captcha solving to 3rd world countries where they are paid pennies per captches solved.


Oh, man... another one.

First of all, people in third world countries do not solve captchas for pennies. If you have an internet connection here (in a thrid world country), you have access to free learning resources for many programming languages. The lowest you can get is PSD to HTML/CSS and it's about $3-$10 per hour, depending how good you are at it (no tax included). If you are ready to learn something more complicated, like in my case, there are practically no limits to what you can achieve. I know it's not that much, but my $100 per hour for Zend coding is somewhat more than pennies for captchas. If you don't trust me, head to any freelancer site and look the demographics. I bet you'll see that 90% of the coders are from India, Pakistan, Eastern Europe or some other poor part of the world.

Captcha's were effective 14 years ago. Right now there are algorithms that can solve them.


Yea no, there are algorithims for simple catptchas, but there are ones secure eough that even humans have trouble.

I also hear acting like a big shot is cool. I too used to do professional web development(writing and managing software for websites that required server clusters to run). Most people who do coding work from 3rd world countries ended up producing copy pasted horsecrap I was later paid to fix.

Here are some articles about the outsourcing captchas:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130594039
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/inside-indias-captcha-solving-economy/1835
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/technology/26captcha.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=technology
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-09-02 03:54:51 UTC
Captchas are a bad idea, I can't even do them when im sober.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#24 - 2012-09-02 04:19:24 UTC
Done to death already. CCP already said they use other methods to spot botters as seen here


CAPTCHA for Botters


Go have a read.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Ghazu
#25 - 2012-09-02 04:57:20 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
because computers will NEVER be able to solve captchas

well the auto captcha never works in jdownloader

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-09-02 05:14:20 UTC
i have a better solution for dealing with bots

'bans'

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#27 - 2012-09-02 05:21:02 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
The lowest you can get is PSD to HTML/CSS and it's about $3-$10 per hour, depending how good you are at it (no tax included). If you are ready to learn something more complicated, like in my case, there are practically no limits to what you can achieve. I know it's not that much, but my $100 per hour for Zend coding is somewhat more than pennies for captchas. If you don't trust me, head to any freelancer site and look the demographics. I bet you'll see that 90% of the coders are from India, Pakistan, Eastern Europe or some other poor part of the world.


$100 per hour?

When I still worked as a programmer, I'd get constantly outbid at those freelancer websites for people who sold Zend and other similar level work for $15 A WEEK. I can pay 1 pizza with those $15...

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#28 - 2012-09-02 05:49:04 UTC
Kitty Carr wrote:
I came up with a simple solution that wouldn't require could get rid of 90% of the mining bots without changing game play much. Anyway, here it is.

Temporary Mining Licenses

There would be a dialog you could pop up from anywhere, with a CAPTCHA .... (snip)

If you hate the botters like every real care bear does, give this a bump, maybe CCP will take it to heart.


Don't get me wrong, I hate botters, but anything else that changes the user interface to make game playing more difficult or time consuming because the hope is to break bots is not good.

Widescreen mode is now gone, it broke bots for two whole days. Combine that with transparent elements (unreadable cap screens and nubela that are too damn bright) and we get game play elements that are making it hard for OCR bots but also really hard on the eyes for the real players.

The Unfied inventory made minor hash of some bots, but the programs have also adapted while the rest of us screamed to get back the functionality that was removed.

TLDR The only solution to botting is enforcement. CCP needs to find a way to step it up without turning the user interface in to any more of a blinking annoying screen chasing hash that it has become. Mining is a boring, yet profitable and necessary part of the game. If you want to 'fix it' you need to do so in a way that doesn't penalize the real players.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-09-02 07:48:56 UTC
the solution is quite simple, make mining not that mind numbing boring and so goddamn easy

just put some creativity there

asteroids that can explode and only a visual clue for it, make them move and "approach" ect does not work, go wild, make it count, make a freaking mini game where you have to control the mining lasers, just something
alittlebirdy
All Hail The Liopleurodon
#30 - 2012-09-02 07:55:26 UTC
Kitty Carr wrote:
I came up with a simple solution that wouldn't require could get rid of 90% of the mining bots without changing game play much. Anyway, here it is.

Temporary Mining Licenses

There would be a dialog you could pop up from anywhere, with a CAPTCHA and that's it. You fill out the captcha and get a 1 hour license to mine. The license allows you to activate strips, mining lasers, or issue mine/mine repeatedly commands to drones. If the strip/drone/laser would auto-cycle after the license runs out it shuts down instead.

End result is that the least the afk bot-miners would now have to check in every hour to renew their license. If that doesnt seem to work well enough you can just shorten the license to 30 minutes. Eventually making bot miners pointless, unless your captcha is really bad.

Is so simple on the player side of things that it would throw the real miners, for however few are left into a tizzy.

If you hate the botters like every real care bear does, give this a bump, maybe CCP will take it to heart.


Could be worse ideas BUT this one is pretty high on the list.

Ya um for file download sites rofl with the **** I can't guess... you had programs that would do it...
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-09-02 10:33:55 UTC
@OP:

Did you really believe you were the first one to come up with this idea ?

Or did you believe you're the smartest and anybody else was just too dumb to realize this "obvious solution" ?

Or didn't you actually think about it at all ?
bornaa
GRiD.
#32 - 2012-09-02 11:13:25 UTC
James 315 wrote:
A better way would be to having laser cycles that don't last long or don't automatically repeat. Or you can fill the ice fields with bumpers who target the AFK. Cool



I got one idea...
Why the hell not to include some sci-fi explanation for that thing.
Like that roid ballast material is pushing all ships with warp drive from the belt?
Yea... one more calculation per ship but i don't think that's the problem with mining.
So that you need to be by your computer to compensate that so that your ship in not pushed out of range of lasers.
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Agaetis Byrjun Endalaust
#33 - 2012-09-02 11:43:25 UTC
I have an easier solution. Just apply the proper implant to the CCP fellas who are supposed to be checking

This: https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKldkJE1ogKbOedp-mJeKG2-lXNhmkme-LchR-wq3pcanHBDItDQ

__________________________ just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after you
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-09-02 11:56:30 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
I believe CCP has already stated they will never use CAPTCHAs anyway.


Who would the most benefit if that crap would be implemented?

I'd bet on those asking for it Lol

brb
Robert Warner
Back Door Burglars
#35 - 2012-09-02 13:28:33 UTC
Yes because CAPTCHA is such a great invention and everyone loves it. Why don't we make even more things that involve CAPTCHA?

I think my breakfast cereal box should have a CAPTCHA code that allows me to open it so I can enjoy those lovely golden flakes.

On a serious note, I wish my girlfriend had to complete a CAPTCHA before she started talking. She can never get them right.

Next!
Tekniq
Bionic Systems
#36 - 2012-09-02 13:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tekniq
Kitty Carr wrote:
I came up with a simple solution that wouldn't require could get rid of 90% of the mining bots without changing game play much. Anyway, here it is.

Temporary Mining Licenses

There would be a dialog you could pop up from anywhere, with a CAPTCHA and that's it. You fill out the captcha and get a 1 hour license to mine. The license allows you to activate strips, mining lasers, or issue mine/mine repeatedly commands to drones. If the strip/drone/laser would auto-cycle after the license runs out it shuts down instead.

End result is that the least the afk bot-miners would now have to check in every hour to renew their license. If that doesnt seem to work well enough you can just shorten the license to 30 minutes. Eventually making bot miners pointless, unless your captcha is really bad.

Is so simple on the player side of things that it would throw the real miners, for however few are left into a tizzy.

If you hate the botters like every real care bear does, give this a bump, maybe CCP will take it to heart.



no just make it ingame immersion like concord or navy roams some belts by chance one and every in a while.

and they want you to answe some questions or sth.

but not just a game file message - let it all be immersive - then its okay

and captures are ususally bad ;) even me and a friend wrote some software that solved some capture systems... its really not thaaat hard - needs just some time and testing for the most them... and its a pain the ar** for the players.. dont do captures. make sth. elese. make sth. humans are good in: intelligence... not dumb captchas..
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#37 - 2012-09-02 13:48:21 UTC
Kitty Carr wrote:
I came up with a simple solution that wouldn't require could get rid of 90% of the mining bots without changing game play much. Anyway, here it is.

Temporary Mining Licenses



Sounds good. Then we also need.

Station parking licenses.
Gate camping licenses.
Market trading licenses.
Waiting more than an hour for the fleet to form licenses.
10x back trader licenses.
Cloaking licenses.
Painful hour long dump licenses.

And a dozen or more other activities where you might be not actively playing for an hour or more.

Mr Epeen Cool
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-09-02 14:00:55 UTC
If only there were a posting license.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
0Lona 0ltor
Adeptio Gloriae
#39 - 2012-09-02 14:35:53 UTC
Look let me fill you in on some info about bots. CCP likes bots, bots pay to play the game they pay $15 a month through plex just like you and I. Botting is a grey area and CCP's punishments for getting caught botting just prove that it's against the rules in writing but meh if you get caught we'll just warn you.

CCP does not care if you bot. What CCP cares about is when people start complaining about your specific bot as it is upsetting their other customers and thus hurting CCP's profit.

If you take the **** with your botting and rake in 100's of billions of isk other alliances will moan and CCP will take action. If you run a bot and it is stealing every annom people will get annoyed (even blues) and CCP will take action, if you run a fleet of mining bots and it depletes every belt you will **** peeps off and again CCP will take action. If your mining in in null and completely destroy the mineral market CCP will take action. If your market bot destroys the competition CCP will take action.

If however your bot is running and making reasonable amounts of ISK while not annoying people CCP will not give a care. If you want to make ISK afk

If you post the truth on the forum about botting and how it's against the written rules but not against the practical in game rules CCP will get annoyed and take action. :)

The most important rule with botting is do not get caught doing any RMT as CCP take real offence to this as this costs them money, if your bot gets caught doing RMT you will lose all accounts that CCP can link and with out warning.

CCP could easily bring in safe guards to detect client foul play through client interaction with other programs but they don't want to remove bots. (VAC bans 100's of accounts each week and CCP should do the same even if it lets some exploits slip through). CSM brings the bot problem up regularly and CCP fobs them off with hollow words about campaigns against botting. These campaigns are in fact against RMT and just consistently remove bots as a result.

I don't support botting and I would like to see CCP look past their own nose and this months plex sales and take action against botting for the good of the game. I am however also against making it appear to noobs that botting is somehow non existent in eve or that CCP takes any real action against them. Except for RMT and when people take the absolute **** with bots.
0Lona 0ltor
Adeptio Gloriae
#40 - 2012-09-02 14:48:58 UTC  |  Edited by: 0Lona 0ltor
As for that 3rd world stuff. My X runs a web development firm they do front end and back end web development, what ever that means? I know nothing in depth about computing or code for building websites. Any way she gets contracts to build websites here and she out sources all of her work to Pakistan. She tells the firm that she is doing all the work but then sends the work to Pakistan and pays Pakistani wages via paypal for work where she is getting European wages for, she was taking 5 salary's at one point while only spending a few hours each day sending and reciving the work and finishing touches. Needless to say she is making a lot of money. Some of the work they send back needs finishing touches so she spends a few hours a day doing the finishing work making it perfect for the client. I worked out one day while playing eve at her house that she makes around $600 phr on a really good day, like I said she does not put man hrs work in but is becoming incredibly wealthy still. The Pakistani's get a good wage too compared to other jobs in the area. She said that she only gets the best developers as she pays much higher wages than the local developer.

It something that I have looked into doing as you don't really need any skills just contracts here in the UK and a handful of kids in the 3rd world. I'd say the job description is more a recruitment agent fencing himself as a specialist while outsourcing to the 3rd world.