These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New defense tactics for in coming changes in FW
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#41 - 2012-09-04 01:19:19 UTC
Shaalira D'arc wrote:


That said, I think you're making too much out of the 'Gross LP Advantage = Irreversible Victory' angle. Making isk after the Winter Expansion will be fairly easy for everyone in FW, even if you're on the "losing" side. In fact, your faction making less LP overall will increase the market value of your LP store offerings.




They do not make less LP , they just do missions => FW dies once again.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#42 - 2012-09-04 01:21:35 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:

And here I thought this thread would be about game mechanics, and that it would be somewhat boring. However,

I did not think there was anyone in this game as mentally ill as here displayed. Mister Damar I salute your depth of delusion and desire to promote the propaganda that will surely save your people from unfair defeat and bring them into glorious real victory. May your identification with a fictional race of poor persecuted internet spaceship fascists never end. 07


Truth is that Caldari total control ended because CCP nerfed things, even some experienced gallente pilots admits that.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#43 - 2012-09-04 01:27:26 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Glad they nerfed the lp store. Now there's no reason to go inside a plex. Doesnt matter anyway. Most of my engagements are on the plex gate or somewhere else (fu*k ship restrictions).

Ship restrictions are lame and is akin to hand holding. There should be NO 'arena' like sh!t. If you want that sh!t, go join rvb. Any and everything can and should happen. Otherwise its as lame as the alliance tournament.

The changes to the lp store will hurt alot of corporations and alliances that rely on it (saw this coming and planned for it, heh!). There may b even less reason to work with each other just because j**s and long winded talkers (politics) want more isk so they can go afk and change skills.

I may be a caldari ultranationalist terrorist, but even i dont take faction warfare seriously. However, I'm somewhat interested in seeing how this will effect the fighting. Will I have to rely more on pirating and roaming 0.0 or will I be able to farm the other faction for about atleast a year?. I'm interested in how these changes will effect activity on the other side (gallente), not so much my own milltia (caldari).


- end transmission


FW is not any arena type or alliance tournament type fight, even plexes restrict ship types you can still bring 1000 people more to plex than enemy.

FW plex fights are unique environment to fight in EVE and most experienced pvp pilots who are not experts on plex warfare avoid those because they can not use their typical tactics from other environments.
Lili Lu
#44 - 2012-09-04 04:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Bad Messenger wrote:
Truth is that Caldari total control ended because CCP nerfed things, even some experienced gallente pilots admits that.

Yeah, it's terrible that CCP realized the imbalance of npc ecm and decided to take that away. Clearly that supports Damar's paranoia.

Now I bet they are working on, oh hey they have said it already, ending the imbalance of non-speed tankable caldari npc missile spam v caldari farmers easily able to speed tank the ridiculous hybrid fail of the Gallente npcs. Again more evidence that CCP wants to persecute the poor caldari.

Why would they make a game, have the largest portion of the population roll caldari and have the caldari militia be the largest, buff caldari frigates now to be best in class, but still work to even out the npc so that Caldari would lose? It's unfair and evil of CCP.Sad
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#45 - 2012-09-04 05:17:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Your issue here is that you're too obsessed over who "wins." FW is designed as an eternal war system where anyone that wants PvP (and to make isk via PvP) can easily jump in. It's made to be an accessible and permanent feature of the game. "Victory" and "Defeat" for any given side is pretty meaningless, since FW is going to be a persistent feature for years to come.


This kind of drivel comes from corporation which already turns NPCs to fire on friendly militia and sends link boosted mwd boats off-grid to stop plex despawning because they cannot be asked to defend systems when they dont have overwhelming numbers. So tell me, who is obsessed about winning here?

Your whole militia is nothing but isk starved little people who whine the moment someone intterrupts their farming and are shocked that someone might *gasp*, be living in low-sec and have vested interest to drive them out. For them, this is irrational behavior since we should all be mindless isk farmers.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#46 - 2012-09-04 05:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Your issue here is that you're too obsessed over who "wins." FW is designed as an eternal war system where anyone that wants PvP (and to make isk via PvP) can easily jump in. It's made to be an accessible and permanent feature of the game. "Victory" and "Defeat" for any given side is pretty meaningless, since FW is going to be a persistent feature for years to come.


This kind of drivel comes from corporation which already turns NPCs to fire on friendly militia and sends link boosted mwd boats off-grid to stop plex despawning because they cannot be asked to defend systems when they dont have overwhelming numbers. So tell me, who is obsessed about winning here?

Your whole militia is nothing but isk starved little people who whine the moment someone intterrupts their farming and are shocked that someone might *gasp*, be living in low-sec and have vested interest to drive them out. For them, this is irrational behavior since we should all be mindless isk farmers.


Not sure if trolling or really that stupid.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-09-04 06:49:19 UTC
The plex mechanic is the absolute best thing about FW pvp. I really don't want them to change the current restrictions. (Though I like the NPC and Button changes suggested). Plexes allows us our leet frigate and cruiser pvp. If not for them, we would have to do the super risky hot dropping of two Domis with two dreads and a carrier. That kind of suspense is just too much for us (I kid, I kid - it was fun anyway...).

And though I know there are people fom my corp that won't agree - the amount time it takes to form fleets because all of the meta considerations is getting out of hand. Admittedly, my patience is short- lived and I would rather leeroy ships to doom with a sub-par fleet makeup than miss a fight. All the nanofaggotry and T3 cloaky link ships that show up in every fleet is just gettin old. Logi is getting high on the annoyance list too.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#48 - 2012-09-04 07:29:43 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:


Also, we derp with non l337 frigates. And for a corp half your size, we're killing half as much isk and losing half as much isk. Our pace is faster than yours which leads to more fun for the ADD guys in our corp (namely me!).

Logis need to be neuted or jammed. If logi chain gets set up inside plex it's game over with these new plex restrictions. Boredom ensues. If cloaky Falcon uncloaks when attacking force warps in, game over again.


IMO, Lockout may disagree, FW should favor faction ships. Let 0.0 favor T2 hulls. The proposed plex size restrictions clearly favor T2 ships and kill the advantages of the faction hulls.




First off, I am old, bitter and tired, fast pace makes me dizzy and confused :)

As for logi ... instead of complaining about how setting up at range will make them invulnerable, I'd take it as a challenge and try and figure out a workaround. Alpha or damps are the first that spring to mind, am sure there's more.

Last but not least, the faction vs t2 dilema is a false one. As Major Killz pointed above, in a sandbox there should be no favoured classes, no restricted classes. Let people bring what they want, they can bring supers for all I care, more stuff to kill/die to in a big ball of glory.
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#49 - 2012-09-04 09:10:22 UTC
Lock out wrote:
Waah, I want to gank everything with bs/logi blob sitting on titan bridge!


0.0 that way ---->
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-09-04 09:45:27 UTC
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Lock out wrote:
Waah, I want to gank everything with bs/logi blob sitting on titan bridge!


0.0 that way ---->


^^

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#51 - 2012-09-04 10:08:41 UTC
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Lock out wrote:
Waah, I want to gank everything with bs/logi blob sitting on titan bridge!


0.0 that way ---->


Sorry, but when FW first kicked off there were 100 man + bs blobs / fights every night of the week, so who determines that FW should be about small ship fights? tis a sandbox dont forget you get out of it what you want.

If we want to blob the **** out of you we will do, if we want to engage in small scale pvp we will do.

Just because you can not compete on this front doesnt mean its not part of FW - You wanna be the kings of small scale pvp then good on ya, go for it and fill your boots - some corps on the Gallente side feel the same way, some dont.

0.0 is an endgame for some but not everyone.

BS / Logi blobs in FW this way <---------------
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#52 - 2012-09-04 10:14:05 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Truth is that Caldari total control ended because CCP nerfed things, even some experienced gallente pilots admits that.

Yeah, it's terrible that CCP realized the imbalance of npc ecm and decided to take that away. Clearly that supports Damar's paranoia.

Now I bet they are working on, oh hey they have said it already, ending the imbalance of non-speed tankable caldari npc missile spam v caldari farmers easily able to speed tank the ridiculous hybrid fail of the Gallente npcs. Again more evidence that CCP wants to persecute the poor caldari.

Why would they make a game, have the largest portion of the population roll caldari and have the caldari militia be the largest, buff caldari frigates now to be best in class, but still work to even out the npc so that Caldari would lose? It's unfair and evil of CCP.Sad


people like you makes me sad, you have no idea what has happened in the past in FW.
Dan Carter Murray
#53 - 2012-09-04 10:14:10 UTC
Lock out wrote:
Waah, I want to gank everything with bs/logi blob sitting on titan bridge!


http://i.imgur.com/c6xGi.jpg

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#54 - 2012-09-04 10:19:00 UTC
Gallactica wrote:
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Lock out wrote:
Waah, I want to gank everything with bs/logi blob sitting on titan bridge!


0.0 that way ---->


Sorry, but when FW first kicked off there were 100 man + bs blobs / fights every night of the week, so who determines that FW should be about small ship fights? tis a sandbox dont forget you get out of it what you want.

If we want to blob the **** out of you we will do, if we want to engage in small scale pvp we will do.

Just because you can not compete on this front doesnt mean its not part of FW - You wanna be the kings of small scale pvp then good on ya, go for it and fill your boots - some corps on the Gallente side feel the same way, some dont.

0.0 is an endgame for some but not everyone.

BS / Logi blobs in FW this way <---------------


those big fleets never enter FW complexes, so they did not actually play system control war at all, they used FW as free wardec, so i do not see how those big fleets are anyhow restricted with plex restrictions, no matter what can fit in plexes you can still fly those blobs.
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#55 - 2012-09-04 10:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallactica
BM, you once pulled an awesome plan with SB'ing battleships against a Gallente gang warping to a plex gate and killed the majority of them.

So big ships / fleets do play a role in system control, just because they cant enter plexxes does not mean that they are not able to play a role.

Also, you want to live in and "own" a low sec system its not only just about plexxing - You need the numbers etc to be able to do this (yes keeping systems from vulnerable ofc requires small stuff as well), but to constantly keep a system under your control you need to also keep your opponents at bay.

And you can not do this with 5 people flying T1 frigates.
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#56 - 2012-09-04 10:29:14 UTC
Double post my bad.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#57 - 2012-09-04 10:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
Gallactica wrote:
BM, you once pulled an awesome plan with SB'ing battleships against a Gallente gang warping to a plex gate and killed the majority of them.

So big ships / fleets do play a role in system control, just because they cant enter plexxes does not mean that they are not able to play a role.

Also, you want to live in and "own" a low sec system its not only just about plexxing - You need the numbers etc to be able to do this (yes keeping systems from vulnerable ofc requires small stuff as well), but to constantly keep a system under your control you need to also keep your opponents at bay.

And you can not do this with 5 people flying T1 frigates.


Actually best way we used to prevent gallente plexing back in days were list of players who were considered as threat on plexing front, all those were monitored and located and when they were plexing they had to engage 5-10 PERVS member gang (mostly frigates) if they wanted to plex. After several days or weeks of harassment they usually decided that plexing in caldari / gallente front was not fun.

Even ex CSM Ankh quit his standing plexing mostly because of this.

You can not have total system control in FW if you only blob, you have to split your forces over whole FW area and plex or prevent enemy plexing. This is something that most people do not realize.
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#58 - 2012-09-04 10:54:18 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
BM, you once pulled an awesome plan with SB'ing battleships against a Gallente gang warping to a plex gate and killed the majority of them.

So big ships / fleets do play a role in system control, just because they cant enter plexxes does not mean that they are not able to play a role.

Also, you want to live in and "own" a low sec system its not only just about plexxing - You need the numbers etc to be able to do this (yes keeping systems from vulnerable ofc requires small stuff as well), but to constantly keep a system under your control you need to also keep your opponents at bay.

And you can not do this with 5 people flying T1 frigates.


Actually best way we used to prevent gallente plexing back in days where list of players who were considered as threat on plexing front, all those were monitored and located and when they were plexing they had to engage 5-10 PERVS member if they wanted to plex. After several days or weeks of harassment they usually decided that plexing in caldari / gallente front was not fun.

Even ex CSM Ankh quit his standing plexing mostly because of this.

You can not have total system control in FW if you only blob, you have to split your forces over whole FW area and plex or prevent enemy plexing. This is something that most people do not realize.



I absolutely agree, however total control is not the goal for everyone in FW. I see that both you and Damar see it as the ultimate goal, and in a sense I understand your point of view. However for others , the end goal might be completely different. like holding a few vital systems, meta the crap out of the occupancy systems so it suits their financial purpouse or a number of other objectives. Notice that Gall was talking about owning "your " home system, not the whole FW map.

Also did Ankh throw any spacespoons at you before quitting plexing ? :)
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#59 - 2012-09-04 10:56:13 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
BM, you once pulled an awesome plan with SB'ing battleships against a Gallente gang warping to a plex gate and killed the majority of them.

So big ships / fleets do play a role in system control, just because they cant enter plexxes does not mean that they are not able to play a role.

Also, you want to live in and "own" a low sec system its not only just about plexxing - You need the numbers etc to be able to do this (yes keeping systems from vulnerable ofc requires small stuff as well), but to constantly keep a system under your control you need to also keep your opponents at bay.

And you can not do this with 5 people flying T1 frigates.


Actually best way we used to prevent gallente plexing back in days were list of players who were considered as threat on plexing front, all those were monitored and located and when they were plexing they had to engage 5-10 PERVS member if they wanted to plex. After several days or weeks of harassment they usually decided that plexing in caldari / gallente front was not fun.

Even ex CSM Ankh quit his standing plexing mostly because of this.

You can not have total system control in FW if you only blob, you have to split your forces over whole FW area and plex or prevent enemy plexing. This is something that most people do not realize.


Agree with you mate, you need both the blob and smaller presense as well to totally dominate in FW - Just gets on my **** when you get the same numpties with the "waaah wahhh, you've spent too much time and effort becoming organised and efficient, you dont belong here get out" response.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#60 - 2012-09-04 11:13:15 UTC
Gallactica wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
BM, you once pulled an awesome plan with SB'ing battleships against a Gallente gang warping to a plex gate and killed the majority of them.

So big ships / fleets do play a role in system control, just because they cant enter plexxes does not mean that they are not able to play a role.

Also, you want to live in and "own" a low sec system its not only just about plexxing - You need the numbers etc to be able to do this (yes keeping systems from vulnerable ofc requires small stuff as well), but to constantly keep a system under your control you need to also keep your opponents at bay.

And you can not do this with 5 people flying T1 frigates.


Actually best way we used to prevent gallente plexing back in days were list of players who were considered as threat on plexing front, all those were monitored and located and when they were plexing they had to engage 5-10 PERVS member if they wanted to plex. After several days or weeks of harassment they usually decided that plexing in caldari / gallente front was not fun.

Even ex CSM Ankh quit his standing plexing mostly because of this.

You can not have total system control in FW if you only blob, you have to split your forces over whole FW area and plex or prevent enemy plexing. This is something that most people do not realize.


Agree with you mate, you need both the blob and smaller presense as well to totally dominate in FW - Just gets on my **** when you get the same numpties with the "waaah wahhh, you've spent too much time and effort becoming organised and efficient, you dont belong here get out" response.



There is many things that ends fun in FW easily, because people are not usually much organized.

Usually bringing falcon means that enemy brings more people, bringing logistics ships means enemy has to bring more people etc...

Same is with titan bridge, people know when enemy are ready to cyno stuff in and avoid fights that can not handle those.

Good example is draketrain, we had setup that had not much match in FW area so no one fight against us.

Also PERVS did thing wrongly back in days, we were too efficient, if i am going to be part of such corp some day we will change things a bit and lose some expencive **** on every match to keep enemy fighting.

Damar is good example about player who have managed to keep pvp going on, his rage upon enemy keeps people trying to kill him over and over again.

It is about keeping fights going on and new rules on plexes might be not so good on that aspect.