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In general, which race would you say has the best ships and which would you say has the worst ships?
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Adam Keynes
Free Trade Union
#61 - 2012-09-04 11:06:48 UTC
Way how this topic has evolved is very misleading for new pilots like myself. Then I want to ask question - can one be objective at all about which is good or bad ship? To be honest, after reading comments I've come to conclusion that my choice of lasers and amarr ships in general is quite bad. As far as I understand - most important is context. So I was planning to do occasional missions and mostly exploration, therefore I looked upon Legion as perfect candidate for swiss army like ship... and now it doesn't look appealing any more.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-09-04 11:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
tengu is just about the only good caldari ship for anything, it has to be uber because lets face it just about everything else bar ZEE FALCON is crap.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#63 - 2012-09-04 12:14:03 UTC
Adam Keynes wrote:
Way how this topic has evolved is very misleading for new pilots like myself. Then I want to ask question - can one be objective at all about which is good or bad ship? To be honest, after reading comments I've come to conclusion that my choice of lasers and amarr ships in general is quite bad. As far as I understand - most important is context. So I was planning to do occasional missions and mostly exploration, therefore I looked upon Legion as perfect candidate for swiss army like ship... and now it doesn't look appealing any more.


Nope. Not really. Every view is biased based on experience and play style. See Liang arguing about Minmatar being subpar.
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#64 - 2012-09-04 15:44:51 UTC
No such thing as a stinker... A stinker flown correctly is a great bait ship that will get you lots of fights....................
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#65 - 2012-09-04 16:32:05 UTC
Adam Keynes wrote:
Way how this topic has evolved is very misleading for new pilots like myself. Then I want to ask question - can one be objective at all about which is good or bad ship? To be honest, after reading comments I've come to conclusion that my choice of lasers and amarr ships in general is quite bad. As far as I understand - most important is context. So I was planning to do occasional missions and mostly exploration, therefore I looked upon Legion as perfect candidate for swiss army like ship... and now it doesn't look appealing any more.


Lasers are freaking amazing and you should never regret training lasers. I hear there's large amounts of null sec blobs that use them, but they're perfectly viable in solo/small gang PVP as well. I'd go so far as to say that the nano shield craze is the greatest buff Amarr has ever had. The ships I'd shoot for in your position (roughly in order):
- Executioner
- Slicer
- Navy Omen
- Harbinger
- Oracle
- Zealot
- Curse
- Armageddon

As to the Legion: it's not so much that it's bad (though it kinda is), it's that the Tengu is just WTFAmazing.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#66 - 2012-09-04 16:33:33 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
Adam Keynes wrote:
Way how this topic has evolved is very misleading for new pilots like myself. Then I want to ask question - can one be objective at all about which is good or bad ship? To be honest, after reading comments I've come to conclusion that my choice of lasers and amarr ships in general is quite bad. As far as I understand - most important is context. So I was planning to do occasional missions and mostly exploration, therefore I looked upon Legion as perfect candidate for swiss army like ship... and now it doesn't look appealing any more.


Nope. Not really. Every view is biased based on experience and play style. See Liang arguing about Minmatar being subpar.


The funny thing about that is that last night someone was accusing me of being a massive kiter. You'd think that I'd be all over Minmatar with a play style like that. I think it's more that I prefer to kite or brawl. The mid range high risk PVP that Minmatar style kiting requires falls into a no man's land that gives you no real advantages (IMO).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#67 - 2012-09-04 20:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Tormak
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Gallente sucks (because of blasters+armour tank) the other three races are all fine (with exceptions for a few ships in each)

WHY?????? YOU NEWB!!!

WHY ARE YOU SUCH A NooB????

Seriously, you, are just going by what Eve players have been saying for years, and it has always been wrong / ill-informed. Gallente are better than ever, and they've always been good. So... goddamn... stupid... I gotta go wash something Big smile

EDIT: I hate you, please be trolling

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#68 - 2012-09-04 23:16:30 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


The funny thing about that is that last night someone was accusing me of being a massive kiter. You'd think that I'd be all over Minmatar with a play style like that. I think it's more that I prefer to kite or brawl. The mid range high risk PVP that Minmatar style kiting requires falls into a no man's land that gives you no real advantages (IMO).

-Liang



Well - that pretty much explains why you dislike Minmatar. I've hardly ever used them to do mid-range PvP (depends on the definition of mid-range, really, but in comparable Sub-BS ship classes, I'll usually control range and will still be able to do more DPS outside scorch range even with close range ammo - admittedly it won't be sufficient to break his tank solo).


I first kite a little to draw conclusions on what the other guys fit is, evaluate the stuation and decide if I go in to brawl. The speed allows me to either disengage if I concluded that the likelihood of me taking him down is rather low or close quickly if I I decide I can take him down.

Alternatively, I could keep kiting and call in friends, so we all kite him - if OTOH he calls in friends, I'll just disengage. Either way you put it, when I'm not drunk, missing his tackler-friend warping in on top of me, I either get the kill or I'll just bugger off. He can't win.

And IMO, that's the great thing about Minmatar - you can poke targets without committing to the fight and go in to brawl if that appears favourable - thanks to faction ammo even without even switching ammo types.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#69 - 2012-09-05 06:54:37 UTC
Adam Keynes wrote:
Way how this topic has evolved is very misleading for new pilots like myself. Then I want to ask question - can one be objective at all about which is good or bad ship? To be honest, after reading comments I've come to conclusion that my choice of lasers and amarr ships in general is quite bad. As far as I understand - most important is context. So I was planning to do occasional missions and mostly exploration, therefore I looked upon Legion as perfect candidate for swiss army like ship... and now it doesn't look appealing any more.


This thread mostly focuses on pvp side of things. Very few people have tried all races in PVE or seen them perform on the field with rats, but many PVPers have flown all races in combat, and pretty much everyone engaging on real combat is aware of the general traits of all races and their most common ships, making it possible to discuss things.

That said, I believe you can make anything work in PVE, figure out the tactics that suit your ship and chosen fit, and explore in the right space for that ship's racial resists and best damage type.

And yes, these things are very heavily subjective. People tend to like their own choices, and see them thru rose-colored glasses, this is inherent to human nature I believe. Furthermore people seek justification for their own choices.

Please note that when people say XX sucks for PVP or XX is the best for PVP, it means some specific area of EVE's combat scenery. This scenery is luckily so varied, that very different ships and tactics can thrive. I've found a perfect match for Gallente in wormhole space and lowsec solo/micro gang, for example. Someone in sov null might want to train something else :D

When choosing race (in ship terms), choose what you like most, and would best suit what you are planning to do. Focus both player and character skill training on a limited amount of ships and get real good in them Cool



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