These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Case for Removing Learning Implants

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Frying Doom
#201 - 2012-08-31 09:11:48 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
So does the price of ships or the skills needed to fly them. Should we remove them too?

Remove supercarriers and titans, yes.

Funny I was talking about the price of ships and the skills needed to fly them. Not specific ships.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Pipa Porto
#202 - 2012-08-31 09:13:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Tiberius Sunstealer wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Upgrading your med clone costs ISK and gives you SP when you die.

I seem to have missed the patch where upgrading your clone was changed from saving SP when your capsule is destroyed to giving you SP.


If you don't touch anything, you lose X SP.
If you upgrade your clone, you lose X SP then gain it back instantly.
If you upgrade your clone, you don't lose X SP.

The cases of not losing something and instantly regaining the thing you lost are the same.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2012-08-31 09:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
So does the price of ships or the skills needed to fly them. Should we remove them too?

Remove supercarriers and titans, yes.

Funny I was talking about the price of ships and the skills needed to fly them. Not specific ships.

Funny how you still haven't provided us with a link to the themittani.com article which you said didn't contain the correct number of losses for the CFC side.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#204 - 2012-08-31 09:16:02 UTC
What Frying Doom said.

To me, it appears just as another excuse for risk aversion, possibly because:

- player is overly concerned with training time differences of a few days
- player is spacepoor
- player is bad at EVE

or all of the above.

Why don't I need +5s? Why having an equal amount of ISK hardwired in my head doesn't stop me PVPing in +billion ISK cruiser hulls in bubble space with no local? I can even lose goddamn SP if I get killed.

Are the game mechanics different for me, because learning implants certainly don't discourage me from PVPing?

.
Tiberius Sunstealer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#205 - 2012-08-31 09:17:35 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
The cases of not losing something and instantly regaining the thing you lost are the same.

No. They aren't.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2012-08-31 09:17:58 UTC
Roime wrote:
- player is overly concerned with training time differences of a few days

Sounds like a newbie.

Roime wrote:
- player is spacepoor

Sounds like a newbie.

Roime wrote:
- player is bad at EVE

Sounds like a newbie.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#207 - 2012-08-31 09:19:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
So does the price of ships or the skills needed to fly them. Should we remove them too?

Remove supercarriers and titans, yes.

But on that note if you guys did an article on that, I would actually fight for that.

Personally I would like to see more small type caps around the size of carriers and dreads but with different uses.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#208 - 2012-08-31 09:22:33 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Roime wrote:
- player is overly concerned with training time differences of a few days

Sounds like a newbie.

Roime wrote:
- player is spacepoor

Sounds like a newbie.

Roime wrote:
- player is bad at EVE

Sounds like a newbie.


So educate newbies better?

Remap, plug in the free implants you get from tutorials, replace with two +3s and later two +4s, decorate with appropriate hardwires, profit?

.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2012-08-31 09:25:08 UTC
Or remove (by way of completely removing learning implants altogether, or by granting the ability to unplug learning implants) a game mechanic which mentally inhibits PVP from happening in some cases.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Pipa Porto
#210 - 2012-08-31 09:50:31 UTC
Tiberius Sunstealer wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
The cases of not losing something and instantly regaining the thing you lost are the same.

No. They aren't.


Sure they are.

x-1+1=x

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#211 - 2012-08-31 10:02:42 UTC
Roime wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Learning Implants look a lot like Learning Skills and the rationale for removal is the same.


*Ughhh, my Jumpclone timer isn't up and I'm in my +4s, etc.


Uggh, I'm in my officer fitted Golem and can't PVP -> remove marauders?

Your rationale is lacking all rationale.



I wasn't aware that there's a 24 hour cooldown timer in switching ships.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#212 - 2012-08-31 10:17:07 UTC
If the 'advantage' of living in high sec is having fancy implants then that is far outweighed by the fact you are playing in the most boring area of New Eden. High sec PVP is a joke and the PVE content outside of Incursions is just awful.

Reduce the cost of clones since it is quite a barrier to PVP, especially in null sec (aforementioned bubbles). No one cares about making Null sec safer, which the OP implies the article is about. What is really needed is a reduction in the costs of clones since at present you find 80m sp+ pilots languishing or even being sold off while players use lower skillpoint characters for higher risk pew pew.

This isn't about making Eve safer, it's about making PVP a little more accessible. I don't care what the ships, modules or implants cost you, but the base level pod itself shouldn't be as expensive as it is. The dynamics of Eve warfare have changed significantly since the games release and it is time clone costs were updated to reflect this.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Frying Doom
#213 - 2012-08-31 10:20:07 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
If the 'advantage' of living in high sec is having fancy implants then that is far outweighed by the fact you are playing in the most boring area of New Eden. High sec PVP is a joke and the PVE content outside of Incursions is just awful.

Reduce the cost of clones since it is quite a barrier to PVP, especially in null sec (aforementioned bubbles). No one cares about making Null sec safer, which the OP implies the article is about. What is really needed is a reduction in the costs of clones since at present you find 80m sp+ pilots languishing or even being sold off while players use lower skillpoint characters for higher risk pew pew.

This isn't about making Eve safer, it's about making PVP a little more accessible. I don't care what the ships, modules or implants cost you, but the base level pod itself shouldn't be as expensive as it is. The dynamics of Eve warfare have changed significantly since the games release and it is time clone costs were updated to reflect this.

I disagree that this was about making Null safer, it was.

But I do agree clones should be a hell of a lot cheaper.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tiberius Sunstealer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#214 - 2012-08-31 10:52:45 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sure they are.

x-1+1=x

But that has nothing to do with clones as they do not take away SP then give SP back on death.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2012-08-31 10:57:12 UTC
Tiberius Sunstealer wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sure they are.

x-1+1=x

But that has nothing to do with clones as they do not take away SP then give SP back on death.

This is a very important topic and must be discussed vigorously and in great detail.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#216 - 2012-08-31 11:04:23 UTC
On a side note I must give praise to ReverendMak for the article also in the above unmentioned web site.

"Rules for Radicals"

Thoroughly impressive read.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Pipa Porto
#217 - 2012-08-31 11:04:40 UTC
Tiberius Sunstealer wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sure they are.

x-1+1=x

But that has nothing to do with clones as they do not take away SP then give SP back on death.


Unimproved Clone > X-1=x[1]
Improved Clone > X-1+1=X-0=x[2]

I don't know how to do subscripts, so the bracketed numbers are subscripts.

0 and -1+1 are mathematically equivalent. When you die normally, you lose SP. Not losing SP and Instantly gaining the SP you lost back are equivalent in the same way (call it gaining SP that you could have lost, if you like).

It's just a different way of looking at it. In the stock market, a Stop Loss order stops you from losing money when the stock price is falling. You can look at the order as not letting you lose money, or as gaining money that you could have lost. It's the same thing.

In the other direction, you lose money every time you miss an opportunity to gain money. Your balance stays the same, but you lost the opportunity to increase it. You can look at it as not gaining money or as losing money that you could have gained. It's the same thing.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#218 - 2012-08-31 11:05:45 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Tiberius Sunstealer wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sure they are.

x-1+1=x

But that has nothing to do with clones as they do not take away SP then give SP back on death.

This is a very important topic and must be discussed vigorously and in great detail.


We're all nerds talking about internet space pixels in here.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ghazu
#219 - 2012-08-31 11:06:27 UTC
Lol everybody is all like hey let's have wis to draw in new players in case them new duders want to emote each other, but when it's a tangible thing like risk the isk or stay on the bench for pvp it's no no no.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#220 - 2012-08-31 11:09:30 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
If the 'advantage' of living in high sec is having fancy implants then that is far outweighed by the fact you are playing in the most boring area of New Eden. High sec PVP is a joke and the PVE content outside of Incursions is just awful.

Reduce the cost of clones since it is quite a barrier to PVP, especially in null sec (aforementioned bubbles). No one cares about making Null sec safer, which the OP implies the article is about. What is really needed is a reduction in the costs of clones since at present you find 80m sp+ pilots languishing or even being sold off while players use lower skillpoint characters for higher risk pew pew.

This isn't about making Eve safer, it's about making PVP a little more accessible. I don't care what the ships, modules or implants cost you, but the base level pod itself shouldn't be as expensive as it is. The dynamics of Eve warfare have changed significantly since the games release and it is time clone costs were updated to reflect this.


Now this makes sense.

Having an upgraded clone is a necessity, everything else is a result of your own choices.


Andski wrote:
Roime wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Learning Implants look a lot like Learning Skills and the rationale for removal is the same.


*Ughhh, my Jumpclone timer isn't up and I'm in my +4s, etc.


Uggh, I'm in my officer fitted Golem and can't PVP -> remove marauders?

Your rationale is lacking all rationale.



I wasn't aware that there's a 24 hour cooldown timer in switching ships.


I wasn't aware that you have to switch clones before PVPing. Probably because nothing forces you.

.