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A simple solution to the Amarr/Minmatar problem
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Unit XS365BT

Unit Commune

Likes received: 208

#21 - 2012-08-30 14:44:19 UTC | Edited by: Unit XS365BT

Perhaps you are correct pilot Rella.
However we would note that the two distinctly non-human species within accessible space are drone based.
One of these species was arguable created by humans, the other potentially contains human infomorphic data.

Returning to the original topic of this thread, There is no simple solution to the current conflict within this region.
Both parties feel wounded by the other, both parties believe they are correct and neither seems likely to step back from such claims.
If such a simple solution were to exist, it is likely it would have been attempted prior to this date.

We Return.

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.

Istvaan Shogaatsu

Guiding Hand Social Club

Likes received: 940

#22 - 2012-08-30 14:55:32 UTC

Anabella Rella wrote:

With attitudes such as these I see that there can never be any kind of peace in this universe. So be it. We deserve nothing better than to perish in flames. Maybe whatever species follows us will have better sense and make better use of these worlds.

The species to follow upon our disappearance will be homo sapiens, as it was for the last few cycles of destruction and renewal recorded in New Eden's history. Our cycle is about to end. Alas, the galaxy is quite cursed with us... we'll be back, no longer calling ourselves Caldari or Minmatar, but new names...

We'll dig up the relics of the cultures that came before us, learn from their mistakes, and repeat them ourselves. Round and round we go, where it stops... well, only the Jovians know.

Valerie Valate

Church of The Crimson Saviour

Likes received: 2,408

#23 - 2012-08-30 16:48:49 UTC

Braitai wrote:

All people deserve the right of self determination. I would support a move that created a sovereign state that allowed individuals to acts as they see fit, even to act in accordance with their faith as long as it does not infringe on the freedom of others. Hell, might even build a home in such a place.

However, I would not support the creation of a system where former slaves who are faithful to Amarrian dogma are able to oppress those who reject such fantasies.

How would a Free Minmatar Mandate, where the faithful free Minmatar would reside without interference from the Republic, be a system where "former slaves are able to oppress others" ?

Hmmmm?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Paul Oliver

Doomheim

Likes received: 8,040

#24 - 2012-08-30 17:16:33 UTC | Edited by: Paul Oliver

Diana Kim wrote:

Paul Oliver wrote:

While number one goes without saying, and number two in this day and age is debatable, numbers three and four seem like they were made by someone who really has no concept of the Matari tribal ethic. Even if they should have to stand alone, they will NEVER lose the will to fight, even if the Republic should fall and they're forced back into isolated tribes (which seems very unlikely), they will never lose the will to fight, so to assume that they would lose their way and become a more easily subjugated people just because the Federation wasn't around to provide them with a bit of technical advise is very.... hek I don't even know what word to use.

Fight for what? Just to fight? I think you underestimate minmatars. I believe that without heavy gallentean influence they will become reasonable and won't be fighting just for kill or resist like whatever surrounds them just for resisting. Of course, there still will be pirates, brigands and other scum, but I hope that after defeat of the Republic and Federation, majority of minmatar population will return to peaceful coexistence with other cultures around with whatever government form they will establish.

As far as I can tell the matari tribes have always been warriors, even before the reclaimings when they were still isolated they were fighters often making war with each other. So once again just because the Republic were to fall and the Federation be no longer there to offer guidance don't expect that would change much. Then again you kinda admitted that yourself with your "there still will be pirates, brigands and other scum" semantics comment. The only thing that would change is that instead of fighting to protect their collective government the tribes would be fighting to protect themselves, which of course would be an unfortunate step backwards.

Now as to your comments about the Federation... You "Lil Kim" are a primary example of why I train so hard at the academy (just passed my level 1 core certification test today yay). The State will never defeat the Federation, history has shown that peak conflict between State and Federation only results in a stalemate that costs the lives of so many unfortunate non-combatants who get in the way of our warships. But you don't seem to be too concerned about that, it sounds to me like you would have no qualms about commiting genocide against one faction just to destabilize another faction, and that is pretty atrocious.

So I'm afraid you've already made one critical error, that you would consider trying it against the MInmatar Republic and the Gallente Federation in the first place.

Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).

Azdan Amith

Doomheim

Likes received: 338

#25 - 2012-08-30 18:05:21 UTC

Valerie Valate wrote:

Braitai wrote:

How would a Free Minmatar Mandate, where the faithful free Minmatar would reside without interference from the Republic, be a system where "former slaves are able to oppress others" ?

Hmmmm?

I believe the argument being made is that the Ammatar Mandate already embodies that, the Ammatar are in the minds of the Minmatar "former slaves now oppressing others" among other numerous and colorful adjectives. At least that is the impression I am getting from the conversations I've had.

It isn't historically inaccurate either, the Ammatar Mandate has held slaves in the past, many of whom were Minmatar.

The key word is "oppress" because it is thrown around constantly by anyone and everyone that wishes to vilify unwanted leadership by any party. The Empire being one of the largest culprits.

~Archon Azdan Amith, Order of Light's Retribution

Lyris Nairn

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 12,423

#26 - 2012-08-30 20:04:28 UTC | Edited by: Lyris Nairn

A simple solution to the Amarr/Minmatar problem is to accept that the "Amarr/Minmatar problem" exists as a game or problem for which there are more possible choices or strategies than have been popularly revealed or theorized. At least one of those possible choices or strategies is to simply collapse the problem and walk away from the game. That choice obviously has not yet been chosen; but, there's no reason why it can't be. The same can be said of the "Caldari/Gallente problem," or any other false duality.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Diana Kim

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,255

#27 - 2012-08-31 06:13:18 UTC

Paul Oliver wrote:

When matari tribes fight against each other, it is only matari concern. The problem is, where matari starts to fight against everyone around, and this is not only matari concern anymore. Without malicious federation agenda and by availability of superpowers around (the State and Empire), matari won't be fighting peaceful people outside of matari.
Well, technically, this goes about Federation too. No one will care, if Federation nurtures backward democracy within its borders. But when it starts infecting other species with their rotten ideals, we make a stand and won't let their pernicious democratic hands into our territory!

Paul Oliver wrote:

Now as to your comments about the Federation... You "Lil Kim" are a primary example of why I train so hard at the academy (just passed my level 1 core certification test today yay).

Target practice? Yey.

Paul Oliver wrote:

The State will never defeat the Federation, history has shown that peak conflict between State and Federation only results in a stalemate that costs the lives of so many unfortunate non-combatants who get in the way of our warships. But you don't seem to be too concerned about that, it sounds to me like you would have no qualms about commiting genocide against one faction just to destabilize another faction, and that is pretty atrocious.

So I'm afraid you've already made one critical error, that you would consider trying it against the MInmatar Republic and the Gallente Federation in the first place.

That stalemate happened like hundred of years ago, when weak State made it stand against much more numerous and powerful Federation. The tables have turned now. We have taken back our planet without significant resistance. Caldari forces struck into heart of Federation like red hot knife through butter. Caldari managed to capture all of warzone systems only a year after the war had started. The days of the Federation is over, and only blind can't see it. While the State is still lacking numbers, the superiority has been shown. And it is our duty to keep pounding federation scum back to the ground, while they resist.

Stop keeping delusional hopes. The faster your people surrender and admit Caldari superiority, the less of you will die.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.


Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Likes received: 2,408	#28 - 2012-08-31 14:45:42 UTC Anslo wrote: Any more brilliant ideas? Yes. Cardinal Graelyn says I am possibly the greatest Sani Sabik thinker of the modern era. So yes, I have other, brilliant ideas. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Dilaro thagriin

Doomheim

Likes received: 110

#29 - 2012-09-18 19:30:57 UTC

Kim.
Since you obviously have no idea of the reason the Matari fight, I can almost ignore your words.
I can even almost pity you for your blind hatred of anything that is not handed down to you from your provist leaders.

But do not make the mistake of thinking that we matari would stop fighting without the federation.
Until the seven tribes are one again, and our people are free of Amarrian chains, we will never stop.
The very spirits of our ancestors demand justice and freedom for our people, and we must see it through.

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