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The Highsec quandry.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#101 - 2012-08-30 02:45:23 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef, show us on this doll where the bad NPC corp touched you P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2012-08-30 02:53:50 UTC
This is nice. You act like all your problems would be solved if only everyone would play like you. News flash: different players play differently. I'll give you a moment to catch you breath. I know its a bit of shock.

I play for my own enjoyment, not for yours. And I'll continue to do so long as I wish.

I've been in my corp longer than your character has even existed. Run along child. You have no idea the value older players in npc corps have to the new player experience.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-08-30 03:18:55 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:

And if players are really that casual. You have two other characters to play. As casuals are not playing to be space rich right?

I never really found creating alts to be casual friendly as creating and training alts puts a hold on any skill development on your main, and casuals are less likely to have multiple accounts to make that a non-issue.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#104 - 2012-08-30 03:33:13 UTC
Matriarch Prime wrote:
This is nice. You act like all your problems would be solved if only everyone would play like you.


It's not even that. It's that they want people to play for them.

99% of these threads are started by people who have run out of easy targets and can't afford the ship loss/ sec hit of ganking. So instead of deccing a corp with members that can fight back, they come in here demanding that CCP give them fish in a barrel.

They can pretty it up any way they like, but it boils down to a bunch of pathetic gankers that are too risk averse to even gank something. So they post in here, wallowing in their own tears because the rest of the players in the game won't park themselves in front of them in untanked T1 ships with a 'kick me' sign painted on them.

Mr Epeen Cool
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#105 - 2012-08-30 03:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:

And if players are really that casual. You have two other characters to play. As casuals are not playing to be space rich right?

I never really found creating alts to be casual friendly as creating and training alts puts a hold on any skill development on your main, and casuals are less likely to have multiple accounts to make that a non-issue.

Yet it doesn't take much SP to max out mining, or even mission running. What would these casuals start training? Carriers? noo... Science and industry? Well a lot of that requires POS stuff as station slots of filled for weeks and requires a real corp.

In other news. A lot of angry people with safe NPC alts. And of course assume I gank or dec for a living.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef, show us on this doll where the bad NPC corp touched you P

The heart.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#106 - 2012-08-30 03:35:58 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.


Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#107 - 2012-08-30 03:37:02 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.


Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it.

easily countered by market alt the never fears decs anyway as they never leave station.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-08-30 03:43:26 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Yet it doesn't take much SP to max out mining,
If you train strait for the ships, sure why not. Supports to make the most of any ship take a while though
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
or even mission running.
This takes the prior statement about supports and magnify it exponentially. Add things like training different ships for different factions and you can easily find yourself in different races, weapons, ship classes and tank types. All in all leaving you very little to go to get a competent (SP-wise) subcap PvP character.
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
What would these casuals start training? Carriers? noo... Science and industry? Well a lot of that requires POS stuff as station slots of filled for weeks and requires a real corp.
If they want to do things that NPC corps don't allow, they move out. Seems a simple solution to me.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#109 - 2012-08-30 03:50:15 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
This takes the prior statement about supports and magnify it exponentially. Add things like training different ships for different factions and you can easily find yourself in different races, weapons, ship classes and tank types. All in all leaving you very little to go to get a competent (SP-wise) subcap PvP character.


Remember, NPC casual. The vast majority arn't training for a competent subcap PvP character. They get into an Exhumer, t3, or a faction BS. and they go grind. The argument was training up an alternate character was too intensive for a casual. You have them learning every subcap and support skill beyond what they do day after day.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-08-30 03:57:02 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
This takes the prior statement about supports and magnify it exponentially. Add things like training different ships for different factions and you can easily find yourself in different races, weapons, ship classes and tank types. All in all leaving you very little to go to get a competent (SP-wise) subcap PvP character.


Remember, NPC casual. The vast majority arn't training for a competent subcap PvP character. They get into an Exhumer, t3, or a faction BS. and they go grind. The argument was training up an alternate character was too intensive for a casual. You have them learning every subcap and support skill beyond what they do day after day.

NPC casual doesn't mean get 1 hull and just park your pod there permanently. A lot of people like trying different ships and weapons. Crosstraining into T2 ships and weapons in many cases isn't a short train. Getting an alt to that point to get around wardecs takes even longer as they start from scratch. And all things considered, why would they ever stop training? It's not intensive, it's a key part of the game.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#111 - 2012-08-30 04:23:38 UTC
Dude; seriously; wardec goons. Im sure theyd accomodate you for targets. Or EVE-UNI

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#112 - 2012-08-30 04:49:49 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Dude; seriously; wardec goons. Im sure theyd accomodate you for targets. Or EVE-UNI

Id rather target their npc corp alts producing thousands of ice an hour. Though that's not really specific to any one alliance.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-08-30 06:03:54 UTC
Sorlac wrote:
Forums ate my response and don't feel like retyping the whole thing again, so in summary what it boils down to is:

I'm not wholly against the idea of doing away with NPC corps, but I do feel if your going to force miners to grab their guns then they should be able to force you to grab some mining lasers.

In all actuality NPC corps are at best only a fraction of a bit safer than being in a 1 man corp; unless you are just running around mouthing off to everyone.

Also what is wrong with people wanting to enjoy the game their way? Isn't that the whole point behind this thread (as ones like it) is so that people like the OP can have soft targets for them to shoot at; which is what they seem to enjoy?


Many of us already have to do some form of PvE. Ships are not free, and in case you didn't know, PvP players tend to lose ships. So, PvP players already do both sides. I think that is the problem; it's not balanced, PvE only players affect PvP players through the market, but PvP players are not able to use their skills to effect the PvE players through combat. That is the problem the OP is arguing.

2 notes: I couldn't care about NPC corp and who stays in them; once you leave highsec, wardecs lose a lot of importance. 2. I use PvE and PvP in relation to combat in the above post; overall, I do not believe there is any true PvE in this game.

James315 for CSM 8!
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#114 - 2012-08-30 08:43:59 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
Sorlac wrote:
Since we are talking about forcing game play styles on others, I say we introduce the reciprocal also. Make it so that mining lasers can target players, and if a miner is able to zap an attacker with their lasers then that attacker becomes the miners slave for 5 days (120 hours) of game time. During that time the slave can only either mine or haul for their new master, and the time only counts down while they are actively working; no sitting afk in a station to work off the debt. Of course all ore mined in that time frame goes to the master. The slave's ship is also turned into an appropriate grade miner or hauling vessel (master's choice of course), with appropriate load-out.


It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.


Your pvp is already forced on others in the form of mineral and ship prices. Just shows how many of the utterly clueless dwell withint the npc corps. If you'd actually bothered to take any of the discussion in you might have read that.


So you're mad that your ships prices are cheap?

Earlier someone said something about needing to hold miners "accountable" and I can't figure out what they need to be held accountable for. The only thing I can figure is that you're all mad that mineral prices are low so your ships and modules are cheap. Apparently you want your pvp ships to cost more?


Where did you read that in my post, try reading it again because you're wrong.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#115 - 2012-08-30 08:48:20 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:

They don't want options, they want safety and to be 'left alone to enjoy the game my way'




Not that it really matters to me personally since I do play the game my way, but I am seeing what I just quoted being parroted by both sides of this stupid argument that is the EVE-O version of the 'Song that Never Ends''.

How about less telling others how they should play and more doing what you want within the constraints set out by CCP. Sandbox doesn't mean no rules, it means think for yourself.

Mr Epeen Cool


I can think for myself, and I have been for the past 3+ years since I started playing. I'm not telling others how to play, what I'm referring to are those that refuse to accept that things can happen in the game that aren't nice and fluffy.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2012-08-30 09:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
I don't think there are ways to make rules that will separate players who don't really affect anything other than just CCP's wallet and those who are sitting with that bunch, abusing any sort of existing rules all the way (crude example: lonely carebears and large NPC-affilated fleets mining for medium-sized corp). In the end, anything that is meant to help new or ineffectual player can be abused by anyone else most of the time, and that is exactly why we can't have nice things.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Ensign X
#117 - 2012-08-30 17:53:45 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.


Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it.

easily countered by market alt the never fears decs anyway as they never leave station.


I hate to break it to you, but even a max-skilled Trade alt is still paying tax on EVERYTHING they sell.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-08-30 18:16:10 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Stupid Stuff

Why is there so many losers posting here lately???
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#119 - 2012-08-30 18:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: MIrple
Ok why when someone posts any idea about changing Hi sec or NPC the what about the noobie shield is always raised in defense? What the OP is saying is after a set time you are moved from your starter corp into a corp that can have action taken against you. Would it be better if you changed it to skill points so say after 5 million you would be moved. Well that wouldn't work because you would have people getting 4999999 sp and stopping because that way the could have the shelter of CCP for ever. We are not trying to make you play the game our way. What we are trying to tell you is you effect our game with how you are playing and the only way we can effect your game is by ganking you. Were you not the ones that were crying about ganking. There has to be some place we can meet in the middle on this as it will benefit the game in the long run and probably increase new player retention as they would experience more of the game. I am 100% against picking on the newbie. But players that are 3 years and still living in there NPC corps basement screaming for to CCP to make them meatloaf are sad.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#120 - 2012-08-30 19:37:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Ensign X wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.


Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it.

easily countered by market alt the never fears decs anyway as they never leave station.


I hate to break it to you, but even a max-skilled Trade alt is still paying tax on EVERYTHING they sell.


Thought there was additional npc corp taxes on market trades. Well then, since it only effects bounties and mission payouts. multiple reasons to never leave the safety of a NPC corp as a miner now eh? No matter how long you have been playing, you are apparently a equal in this world, just without most of the drawbacks... yes yes, I see.