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[Recording] Wormhole Townhall With CSM Two Step

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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#121 - 2012-09-05 08:12:20 UTC
I don't mind if Two Step wants to nerf the hell out of lower class wormholes, so long as he does his "job" and tells CCP that pretty much everyone except him DOESN'T want that :)

I honestly can't see anything good coming out of nerfing lower class wormholes. All I see happening is the depopulation of the lower classes, fewer people in wormhole space in general, and the remaining ones moving into ever growing huge alliances (because good luck establishing a c5/c6 home if you're a solitary small corp). Two Step, you have to look at both sides of this, not just people (both big and small entities) wishing to evict people from lower classes, but also people who wish to live in lower classes. Why would ANYONE ever move into a lower class wormhole if the system effects are worse, the isk is pathetic AND they have a horrific limitation put on their defenses (a limitation not even high sec has)?

It seems to fly in the face of the "risk vs reward" thing we have going in EVE. Higher risk for higher rewards. Except apparently in lower class wormholes, where you want higher risk and lower rewards. Dumb.
Frying Doom
#122 - 2012-09-05 08:42:42 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I don't mind if Two Step wants to nerf the hell out of lower class wormholes, so long as he does his "job" and tells CCP that pretty much everyone except him DOESN'T want that :)

I honestly can't see anything good coming out of nerfing lower class wormholes. All I see happening is the depopulation of the lower classes, fewer people in wormhole space in general, and the remaining ones moving into ever growing huge alliances (because good luck establishing a c5/c6 home if you're a solitary small corp). Two Step, you have to look at both sides of this, not just people (both big and small entities) wishing to evict people from lower classes, but also people who wish to live in lower classes. Why would ANYONE ever move into a lower class wormhole if the system effects are worse, the isk is pathetic AND they have a horrific limitation put on their defenses (a limitation not even high sec has)?

It seems to fly in the face of the "risk vs reward" thing we have going in EVE. Higher risk for higher rewards. Except apparently in lower class wormholes, where you want higher risk and lower rewards. Dumb.

Maybe CCP decided to do away with Lower class wormholes because they were not close enough to Null Sec. And through the NDA they figured out the best way to depopulate it and Two Step got to give us the news.

Hell it maybe a whacky theory but it actually makes more sense than the truthLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-09-05 08:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Maybe it's time to let the whole POS size issue die. If we work on the principle that the majority rules, then Two Step's views can be discounted and we should trust that CCP have people on staff that agree with our opinions on the matter.

I personally feel that once the security issues (access rights) with POS's have been "fixed" it will allow existing w-space corps to open up their recruitment process, so that the "little" guy looking to get in to w-space, will now have a better chance.

edit:

Frying Doom wrote:

Maybe CCP decided to do away with Lower class wormholes because they were not close enough to Null Sec. And through the NDA they figured out the best way to depopulate it and Two Step got to give us the news.

Hell it maybe a whacky theory but it actually makes more sense than the truthLol


Yeah, Two Step's inability to listen to our reasoning leads me to believe that he knows something that we don't, that could in fact justify the need to restrict POS sizes in low class wormhole.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#124 - 2012-09-05 09:24:23 UTC
I think allowing lower class wormholes to keep their large towers but revisiting pos ecm would be a far more beneficial approach. ECM isn't as huge a deal in null or higher classes where you can drop dreads on towers, but against the subcap fleets that you have to use in lower classes or highsec...

maybe something as minor as turning down the off-racial strength, or making them prioritize the correct races ships
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2012-09-05 09:42:48 UTC
Also, we should not forget about the unique tactic in wormholes, of podding the residence out of a system. This could be much easier to do if force fields are to be removed and POS hit points may not even be an issue.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Cyber Havoc
Cruelest Intentions
#126 - 2012-09-05 11:27:42 UTC
First off, thanks for actually hosting something like this. My two cents on the possible changes is don't fix what is not broken. Leave the bubble keep hangers but allow folks to have personal hangers and fix the way roles work for pos's.

If your on the top wrungs of the game intel like whats in a pos for cap ships is great and will become pipe hitting alliances bread and butter for hunting lesser foes,but if your a bottom wrung player hiding what you have is partially a survival mechanic. Also the chance to vacate a pos under fire is truly a good thing.

While on the subject of W-Space can we by chance get something implemented for sigs in your system. BM it once and when you come back later on that night your BM eliminates the need of re-scanning sigs all over again until said sig despawns? I don't mind scanning but on days I am offline several times it is very tedious.



Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-09-05 11:43:02 UTC
Two step wrote:
I'll start responding to your posts once you start posting with your main.

Your arrogance is astounding. Main or alt makes no difference if it's a legit eve character on an account being paid for; an account that helps pay for your free forking trips to Iceland. Such a character has every forking right to ask you questions. His subscription fees entitle him to the same representation on the CSM as anybody else. You are clueless and you have no place on the CSM.

I'd rather be represented by an entire CSM full of Goons or PL guys than you. You need to start stepping up to the plate, little man, and start representing the players who elected you.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#128 - 2012-09-05 12:16:15 UTC
Swidgen wrote:
Two step wrote:
I'll start responding to your posts once you start posting with your main.

Your arrogance is astounding. Main or alt makes no difference if it's a legit eve character on an account being paid for; an account that helps pay for your free forking trips to Iceland. Such a character has every forking right to ask you questions. His subscription fees entitle him to the same representation on the CSM as anybody else. You are clueless and you have no place on the CSM.

I'd rather be represented by an entire CSM full of Goons or PL guys than you. You need to start stepping up to the plate, little man, and start representing the players who elected you.


Please post with your main.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#129 - 2012-09-05 12:28:18 UTC
Two Step don't be such a little *****. Just because they're posting with alts doesn't make any of their opinions or questions somehow invalid.

You look for any little excuse to dismiss people who question you or who have a different stance. You're awful attitude is going to cost you a lot of votes next time round, mate. I hope you enjoyed that trip to iceland, I wouldn't bank on getting many more.
Lexylia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2012-09-05 12:28:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexylia
-----
Frying Doom
#131 - 2012-09-05 13:31:30 UTC
Is Two step in reality just an alt of Lord Zim, you be the judge

Lord Zim wrote:
NPC alts should stay away from posting, forever.

Two step wrote:
Please post with your main.


Well its either an alt or he wants to join GoonswarmLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Meytal
Doomheim
#132 - 2012-09-05 13:37:07 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Maybe it's time to let the whole POS size issue die. If we work on the principle that the majority rules, then Two Step's views can be discounted and we should trust that CCP have people on staff that agree with our opinions on the matter.

Personally, I "trust" that CCP doesn't consider w-space and those of us who live here to be on equal footing to Nullsec. I really don't expect that CCP will debate among themselves how changes they make for the benefit of Nullsec will affect us, that's why they have the CSM. When they make comments or suggestions and ask for input, if Two Step says it's all good for w-space, they won't stop to ask him whether that is his own viewpoint or that of his constituents. And rightly so. That's what elected representation is all about.

Collectively, we elected Two Step to represent our needs and fight for us in the eyes of CCP, and he is failing to do so. We have few choices other than putting someone else on the CSM next time to hopefully represent us more faithfully. I'm not even sure trying to go around Two Step to address CCP directly would work.

Meanwhile, we must keep trying to break through Two Step's thick skull in the hopes that he may yet start doing the job for which he was elected.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-09-05 13:38:54 UTC
Quote:
Please post with your main.


^This.
If people don't care enough about something to post on their main, why should Two Step care enough to respond on his main?

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Frying Doom
#134 - 2012-09-05 13:39:22 UTC
Meytal wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Maybe it's time to let the whole POS size issue die. If we work on the principle that the majority rules, then Two Step's views can be discounted and we should trust that CCP have people on staff that agree with our opinions on the matter.

Personally, I "trust" that CCP doesn't consider w-space and those of us who live here to be on equal footing to Nullsec. I really don't expect that CCP will debate among themselves how changes they make for the benefit of Nullsec will affect us, that's why they have the CSM. When they make comments or suggestions and ask for input, if Two Step says it's all good for w-space, they won't stop to ask him whether that is his own viewpoint or that of his constituents. And rightly so. That's what elected representation is all about.

Collectively, we elected Two Step to represent our needs and fight for us in the eyes of CCP, and he is failing to do so. We have few choices other than putting someone else on the CSM next time to hopefully represent us more faithfully. I'm not even sure trying to go around Two Step to address CCP directly would work.

Meanwhile, we must keep trying to break through Two Step's thick skull in the hopes that he may yet start doing the job for which he was elected.

May I suggest the CSM Chairman Hotline
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=148337&find=unread

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Nalren
Perkone
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-09-05 13:57:56 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Quote:
Please post with your main.


^This.
If people don't care enough about something to post on their main, why should Two Step care enough to respond on his main?


+1.

If you want to be taken seriously outside our little fantasy world, do you call someone from a pay phone and disguise your voice? Saying it another way: act like an adult and you'll be treated like one.
Pancake King
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-09-05 14:09:36 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Quote:
Please post with your main.


^This.
If people don't care enough about something to post on their main, why should Two Step care enough to respond on his main?


Agree.

I'd also suggest maybe a little hissy fitting because someone has a different viewpoint. No one responds well to that, nor should they be expected to. Present a reasonable point, backed up by a well thought out argument or gtfo and let the adults talk.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#137 - 2012-09-05 14:26:25 UTC
I'll never understand all the hurf blurfing about "post with ur main!111" in this or any other thread.

It's just something that is completely lost on me, the content of a post or an argument stands (or doesn't) on its own merits as far as I've always been concerned (obviously I'm not just speaking about eve-o forums here, I see the same kind of thing done in all manner of areas - rather than respond to an argument or continue a discussion people dismiss it based on bs 'personal' things about the guy speaking). I've always seen this kind of tactic as just slimy.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2012-09-05 14:42:02 UTC
One of the issues with peopel posting with alts is you have no idea if they are doing it to score points off another or just because they dont like the person in question, They might have nothing at all to do with wh's and just use it as a cheap shot at people.

Posting with your main atleast lets people know who they are and then its easy to see if its point scoring being a douche or some one who does live in wh's who is genuinely concerned.

I really have no idea why people wouldnt want to post with there main, I've spoke to a number of people about some of the stuff on pos's on both our ts and there ts and while some i dont agree with with its always been civilised.

at the end of teh day if you want to get your point across just be polite and civil.

I personally dont see any issue with large pos's in low class wh's i do think nerfing ecm alot would help sort that issue out as others have stated.

but there is a diffence with me posting it like that and going

OMG TWO STEP HOW OFTEN DO I HAVE TO SCREAM AT YOU TO LISTEN YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT HIGH END WHS NOT OUR STUFF YOU DONT KNWO ANYTHING LEAVE IT HOW IT IS FOR US.

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2012-09-05 15:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnaw LF
Jack Miton wrote:
Quote:
Please post with your main.


^This.
If people don't care enough about something to post on their main, why should Two Step care enough to respond on his main?



He is more than welcome to respond on his alt, problem is that people probably won't know its Two Step and will just think their CSM candidate is inactive. In the end what does it matter which toon is used to engage in a conversation as long as the said conversation is civil, coherent and is on topic.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2012-09-05 15:36:28 UTC
corbexx wrote:
One of the issues with peopel posting with alts is you have no idea if they are doing it to score points off another or just because they dont like the person in question, They might have nothing at all to do with wh's and just use it as a cheap shot at people.

Posting with your main atleast lets people know who they are and then its easy to see if its point scoring being a douche or some one who does live in wh's who is genuinely concerned.

I really have no idea why people wouldnt want to post with there main, I've spoke to a number of people about some of the stuff on pos's on both our ts and there ts and while some i dont agree with with its always been civilised.

at the end of teh day if you want to get your point across just be polite and civil.

I personally dont see any issue with large pos's in low class wh's i do think nerfing ecm alot would help sort that issue out as others have stated.

but there is a diffence with me posting it like that and going

OMG TWO STEP HOW OFTEN DO I HAVE TO SCREAM AT YOU TO LISTEN YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT HIGH END WHS NOT OUR STUFF YOU DONT KNWO ANYTHING LEAVE IT HOW IT IS FOR US.


Or you know, you can use that big grey thing called your brain and read the post, understand the context and draw a conclusion. Case in point, Two Step refuses to reply to a guy who made the following statement:

Quote:

Two Step, I know I've poked you a couple of times about AHARM's attempt to bash a POS in a C3 and then the carnage that followed, but try to see it from the perspective of those of us who live in C1-C4 systems.

We do this sort of thing all the time. Yes, we even get jumped from time to time (though the more organized groups tend to have scouts making it less of a bloodbath). WE have to face the large dickstars with no siege Dreads, you don't. WE have to spend the extra time shooting a tower while hostile third parties could jump in on us; because these systems are so accessible from k-space, it could happen at any moment and local could spike immediately. We know this, and we choose to live here anyway.


From the context of THAT message it is pretty clear to me that the person who is making the post is at least aware of w-space mechanics. He brought up and illustrated points that are valid despite the toon with which he posted them.