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WH Mass not adding up correctly?
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Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-08-26 23:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Svodola Darkfury
Hi Guys;

I'm aware that wormholes have + or - 10% mass, but this is beyond my understanding.

So I'm working with a 2 billion mass (base) wormhole.

It goes first step critical at 990 exactly (+ a few thousand mass), suggesting its a small wormhole at -10% mass or 1800.

We continue as normal, it goes second step critical (under 15%) at around 1700 (which is to be expected) and then doesn't collapse when the battleship comes back through, AB on. Now it's at 1895, it's been critical for over 295 mass. [edit]: It collapsed at 2030, suggesting a standard sized wormhole, but the information was as I described.


Has anybody else been experiencing "stretching" of the mass lately? I haven't had this problem before; usually the math just adds up fine. Have I just been lucky, and it's actually somewhere BETWEEN -10% and +10%?

It only seems like it happens with recently spawned wormholes that have literally NO mass damage (we have just crushed the previous hole, scanned it, sent a prober ship through, nobody on the other side, and start crushing it).

Thanks for any insight you can give,

Svodola Darkfury.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-08-27 00:23:50 UTC
Replicated almost immediately with another wormhole.

Same symptoms: early critical warnings, actually a 2 billion wormhole.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Pancake King
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-08-27 03:09:26 UTC
We've had similar happen from time to time. I've put it down to poor scanner calibration by the folks at Lai Dai, however apparently it's not covered by the warranty.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#4 - 2012-08-27 11:11:34 UTC
Actuallh I know what the problem is and the two things you can do to fix it. Always check your ab/mwd consume cap before jumping thru. Or you can let it go 2/3 of the cicle. It never happened to me after I started to check that.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Tiger Armani
End-Game
#5 - 2012-08-29 07:37:13 UTC
WH's mass is anything between that -10% --- +10% range.

Use excel etc. to calculate the mass used, and after wh changes visible form, use can calculate exact minimum/maximum mass values. These gets even more detailed when you get to critical mass.

Never had any problems collapsing wh:s with this metod.

Example.

We have Y790 wh (500M mass).

Used mass is 230M. I go through it with tengu using AB (mass 19.2M).
WH changes it form.
Now we now that minimum mass for WH will be 230M * 2 = 460M
Maximum mass for WH is 249.2M * 2 = 498.4M

Later on, WH's mass is 435M and i go through it with tengu again and WH goes critical.
New calculations:
minimum mass is 435M/0.9 = 483.333M and maximum mass is (435M+19.2M)/0.9 = 504.666M

From these values you use bigger lower value and smaller upper value.
So now for sure we know that WH's mass is between 483.33M - 498.4M
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-08-29 18:43:18 UTC
That confirms what I was beginning to suspect Tiger Armani.

The wormhole mass is somewhere BETWEEN -10% and +10% mass, not specifically -10%, 100%, and +10%. It appears I've been getting lucky for a REALLY long time with our battleship collapses...


Thanks for the info.

Svodola Darkfury.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Fradle
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2012-08-30 03:55:30 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
That confirms what I was beginning to suspect Tiger Armani.

The wormhole mass is somewhere BETWEEN -10% and +10% mass, not specifically -10%, 100%, and +10%. It appears I've been getting lucky for a REALLY long time with our battleship collapses...


Thanks for the info.

Svodola Darkfury.


While that is correct, I'm pretty sure everywhere it says wormholes can be anywhere from +10% to -10% which implies between......
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#8 - 2012-08-30 09:02:16 UTC
Why would anyone think it was NOT between -10% and +10%? I always assumed this and was surprised when I read here that it might not be the case.

When using Orcas for closing, any viable method is not dependent on +- 50m mass anyway, so there's no need to know the exact mass of the wormhole. Always keep it close on the safe side (rather risk leaving the wh critical after the supposedly last jump than closing it too early). If closing fails, you can still use a HIC with 100MN MWD and multiple bubbles.

.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-08-30 17:59:22 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Why would anyone think it was NOT between -10% and +10%? I always assumed this and was surprised when I read here that it might not be the case.

When using Orcas for closing, any viable method is not dependent on +- 50m mass anyway, so there's no need to know the exact mass of the wormhole. Always keep it close on the safe side (rather risk leaving the wh critical after the supposedly last jump than closing it too early). If closing fails, you can still use a HIC with 100MN MWD and multiple bubbles.



Just a misunderstanding on my part. For the last 6 months we've had the wormholes within +/- 20 of where we though it should be, so never assumed that it would be anything else. Evidence began mounting recently that we were doing something wrong, so we asked :)

Svodola Darkfury.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.