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To the Amarrian Loyalists: An Open Letter (aka WALL O' TEXT)

Author
Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#21 - 2012-08-27 07:36:06 UTC
Once again another FW thread where someone asks for idea on how the Amarr can try and turnaround thier warzone and people just don't get it....

They either:

1. Give advice to how the OP can 'do it better' - This was not asked for nor the intention of the post
or
2. Winge and whine about how fail amarr is.

Get over yourselves Big smile

Anyways to the OP I say if you have any ideas to try then get a bunch of like minded people and try them. You will have an uphill battle because of the way the mechanics work around plexing and the large number of plex alts in the minnies. I would sugest that you work to get yourselves setup in a 'home' system and keep it decontested as much as possible. Once you have it fairly secure expand into the surrounding systems. If you could do this in an area that is deep in minnie space then you get a bigger PR footprint form that as well that may inspire more examples to assist with the war effort.

I really like the idea of FW but tbh the biggest problem I have with FW is the large number of whiners in it that consistantly conplain about how this/that is broken in FW and don't do anyhting about it!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-08-27 08:11:12 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:

And while we are on it:
- put a freaking web tower in every major complex to prevent solo frigs capping them
- open all Majors to covert cynos
-

first one- Now thats a good idea
Second one- Oh hell no plex fighting is one of the last bastions of small gan pvp. DO NOT open it up to idiots with titans to ruin one of the last good pockets of pew

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

FIRST GENERAL
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#23 - 2012-08-27 08:28:41 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:

And while we are on it:
- put a freaking web tower in every major complex to prevent solo frigs capping them
- open all Majors to covert cynos
-

first one- Now thats a good idea
Second one- Oh hell no plex fighting is one of the last bastions of small gan pvp. DO NOT open it up to idiots with titans to ruin one of the last good pockets of pew



The man DID say 'covert cynos' .
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-08-27 08:52:21 UTC
NOT
ONE
INCH
CLOSER
TO
CYNOS
FG
NOT
ONE
INCH
Twisted

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#25 - 2012-08-27 09:09:05 UTC
A very respectable and influential player once told me in a private convo that one of the best way to deal with spies is, quite honestly, to ignore them. They're a fact of eve, and everyone has them. Spies inflict *some* damage, but the most damaging thing a spy can do is create disloyalty. Just keep intel on a need to know basis. Announce hostile movements, not friendlies, etc. And despite the fear of spies, people aren't that smart. A spy can only glean so much on short notice. Less even in public fleets and pickups. Worst case scenario, you lose a few ships and get a good fight. Is that really so bad?

This Space Intentionally Left Blank

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#26 - 2012-08-27 09:39:21 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Once again another FW thread


... in which people who have no idea what's going on try to give advice.

We should set up a 'home' system and keep it decontested? That's Sahtogas. Sahtogas stands alone. We should "expand into the surrounding systems"? Dude, I wish FW were like that. FW is not like that now. You do not 'expand'. There is no conquest of space. You do not take one system and then move to take the next. FW is just pushing for a cashout. We're doing 'pushing for a cashout' decently well, although it seems with some help. But FW, as a war over space, is dead.

Trinkets friend, I usually enjoy your posts, but you're just 100% clueless in that one.

1. It would not benefit Amarr to have a bunch of systems as a 'logistical base'(?!). We can't defend them. Grass bends to the breeze, trees bend to the storm, and systems fall to Minmatar's horde of farmers.

2. Amarr are 'spoit for choice' because we just had an Nulli-aborted cashout and the aforementioned horde of farmers took back every system. Minmatar were 'spoilt for choice' in exactly the same manner we are now for only a few days. The 'boring stalemate' you're seeing, because you don't use the militia window and look at system contested levels, is just how much longer it takes the Amarr to do what the horde did. If the farmers would organize with each other and drop the warfare gimmick, you could see two T5 cashouts a week, like clockwork, one by either side. We are not advantaged.

Quote:
I really like the idea of FW but tbh the biggest problem I have with FW is the large number of whiners in it that consistantly conplain about how this/that is broken in FW and don't do anyhting about it!


Since it's indeed FW that's broken, and not the Amarr militia, there's precious little that anyone but CCP can do about it. There would be fewer threads about FW if people would understand that already and halt the internet psychoanalysis, internet psychotherapy, internet motivational speaking, asking what an army of Duke Nukems would do, mistaking various symptoms for the disease, and so on. Just shut the **** up already about the Amarr. We have one system. In a little bit, we'll have a bunch of systems. Shortly thereafter we'll have one system again. There's nothing left to discover about post-Inferno FW mechanics. Just do your thing until Winter.
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-08-27 09:53:40 UTC
Garresh wrote:
A very respectable and influential player once told me in a private convo that one of the best way to deal with spies is, quite honestly, to ignore them. They're a fact of eve, and everyone has them. Spies inflict *some* damage, but the most damaging thing a spy can do is create disloyalty. Just keep intel on a need to know basis. Announce hostile movements, not friendlies, etc. And despite the fear of spies, people aren't that smart. A spy can only glean so much on short notice. Less even in public fleets and pickups. Worst case scenario, you lose a few ships and get a good fight. Is that really so bad?



^^THIS

QFT


The biggest danger I have seen spies ever do is psychological. An apparent 'boogieman' that really never was. Important information should always be 'need to know'. Otherwise limiting options because of 'spies' is silly.

I was always a staunch supporter of open door policy. Information control is key.

Many a time I have seen fleets get slaughtered due to a grave miscalculation/lack of information by a fleet commander to be blamed on 'spies' than to be taken for the fact that they where due to blatant mistakes by the FC. Just because you walked into a trap does not mean it was due to spies. Fleets have very effective tactics for hiding numbers, dragging hostile fleets into traps etc.

As far as the developing a sense of chivalry and co operation, the best I can tell you that as far as fw goes it is built once blood is spilled and lost together. I understand this is a turnoff to many a new fw pilot, but this is the way things have been done for years. While I would love to see a more welcome attitude from the seniors to the newcomers, old dogs rarely learn new tricks and new comers are better to adapt than expect seniors to follow logic.

Strange I know but hey, the world is a strange place.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Dan Carter Murray
#28 - 2012-08-27 13:25:20 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Akai Kvaesir wrote:
Anger and a desire to change the status quo are not one and the same. Am I angry you won? Not really, as we sincerely did not deserve to win. Yet. But am I angered by the apathy and lack of unity? Slightly. Do I want your bloodmoney? Naw, I've got plenty as it stands.

All I want is a serious discussion of how we can move forward. And I sincerely believe it is in the Minmatar's best interests that some solution, however it works out, is found. We can all benefit from a dynamic war, rather than a static one.

~Akai


You have to remember that minmatars have their brains and balls removed upon joining FW


You say that like we have either of those to begin with.


touche

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Rengerel en Distel
#29 - 2012-08-27 14:33:30 UTC
Seriously, i'd hope the minnies already had their amarr alts ready (takes a bit more skills to handle the missiles) and should be farming to get them all vulnerable.
The minnies should welcome the farmers, and let them do their work. The amarr will cash out, then go back to their minnie characters to start the cycle again. FW isn't about winning a war, pvp, etc. it's about the cash outs now. Perhaps when people are cashing out every week, every other week, then CCP might look into the mechanics.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#30 - 2012-08-27 14:45:15 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Akai Kvaesir wrote:
While I agree that the inactive accounts should be purged, I disagree that anyone who has joined the Militia has no right to join a fleet. At it's heart, this belief stems from a view that "pubbies" are worthless, and that there are those who belong and those who do not. What is the point of fighting a faction war, if you refuse the right of other militia fighters to participate? We were all nubs once (some of us still are, we just don't like admitting ignorance or inexperience), and there is no better way to learn than to join a fleet and lose some ships. Exclusion does not help us win.

~Akai


You still don't seem to understand the crux of the problem. It doesn't matter how many killmails you help your militia get, the more time you spend in an organized fleet, the less time you're solo orbiting butan. The problem with those general militia fleets is many of those players are new to FW and PVP so splitting them up into smaller plexing units tends end in them dying in a huge fireball with little accomplished. Even groups with a focus on new player FW experience like Fweddit find that people new to FW join to PVP and not to orbit butan.

....


This is why new pvpers should actually go to null sec first. There they can join a blob and get the general jist of mechanics. When they are ready for the much more challenging avenue of small gang and solo warfare they can join faction war.

I know CCP has said fw should be a stepping stone to null. But that is because they don't understand that blob warfare is much easier than small gang warfare. Just look at the various null sec alliances that come to fw and get decimated.

Agony will be an exception to this because they are known for being good at small scale pvp and not just getting a huge blob.

If you are new and need allot of handholding null sec alliances will provide that. If they make the changes to prevent farming in pve ships then fw will be the venue where the best pvpers can really shine.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Pinky Feldman
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#31 - 2012-08-27 15:17:12 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Seriously, i'd hope the minnies already had their amarr alts ready (takes a bit more skills to handle the missiles) and should be farming to get them all vulnerable.
The minnies should welcome the farmers, and let them do their work. The amarr will cash out, then go back to their minnie characters to start the cycle again. FW isn't about winning a war, pvp, etc. it's about the cash outs now. Perhaps when people are cashing out every week, every other week, then CCP might look into the mechanics.


Theres no need for that when Minny farmers can just go Caldari. What you proposed is just more work. The thing about farmers or massive ISK profitability is that the smart will always take the path of least resistance.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#32 - 2012-08-27 15:42:54 UTC
It is easy to blaim others that things does not go so well.

We all can look at mirror and ask question what i can do better?

it is about undocking and doing something, fleet fight do not really say who will win plex wars, plex wars win side who has most farmers and most people who prevent enemy farmers. To stop farmer you do not need fleet, you need some solo pilots who goes out and hunt farmers.

So only reason why amarr fail is that no one is looking at mirror and undock to hunt farmers.

Amarr want to die as martyrs, maybe for role play reasons.
Rina Kondur
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#33 - 2012-08-27 18:35:16 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
join agony like I did or a corp like mine and learn to love to fight outnumbered


I seem to remember 7th Fleet leaving the militia because they couldn't plex like they used to. When did they turn into a PvP focused alliance?
Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#34 - 2012-08-28 02:23:55 UTC

Quote:
I really like the idea of FW but tbh the biggest problem I have with FW is the large number of whiners in it that consistantly conplain about how this/that is broken in FW and don't do anyhting about it!


Since it's indeed FW that's broken, and not the Amarr militia, there's precious little that anyone but CCP can do about it. There would be fewer threads about FW if people would understand that already and halt the internet psychoanalysis, internet psychotherapy, internet motivational speaking, asking what an army of Duke Nukems would do, mistaking various symptoms for the disease, and so on. Just shut the **** up already about the Amarr. We have one system. In a little bit, we'll have a bunch of systems. Shortly thereafter we'll have one system again. There's nothing left to discover about post-Inferno FW mechanics. Just do your thing until Winter.[/quote]

LOL

FW is NOT broken! The mechanics that were implemented had undesired effects (which many pointed out BTW) but the general FW populace still pushed for them...and guess what? They got what they asked for! As for 'Amarr' being happy with one system....meh if you are happy with that then all well and good but considering the amount of post complaining that 'Amarr' are NOT WINNING I guess you are in the minority in your own faction.

Seriously dude like 90% of the posts in W&T about FW are whine post about people who can't or won't adapt to new game mechanics. I am a wanderer at heart so I have played eve in most of the differing areas from high sec missions to null sov and wormholes. The only area i haven't flown in is incursions and mining as I work in a mine IRL and I'll be buggered if I'm gonna do it 'for fun!'

I have had to adapt to probably more game mechanics than the average player so here is my uncencored opinion:

HTFU, adapt and overcome or just whine and *****....either way you will be judged by your actions and noise.

Now I think I go out and die in some really stooopid ways Twisted

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-08-28 09:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Stalking Mantis
Rina Kondur wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
join agony like I did or a corp like mine and learn to love to fight outnumbered


I seem to remember 7th Fleet leaving the militia because they couldn't plex like they used to. When did they turn into a PvP focused alliance?


Do your homework. Check the killboards. then make passing remarks on faction warfare corporations/pilots.

Then again there are many a pilot in EVE still stuck in the old school way of thought and think getting into a fast moving fleet and jumping 25 jumps through a warzone is THE ONLY way they will get pvp.

Word to the wise: if you think plexing does not bring you fights you are sorely mistaken. If your not getting fights orbiting the butan you are plexing in the wrong systems or intentionally doing it in backwater systems for LP. Granted you will have 20 or 30 minutes pass while capturing plexes where nothing happens, still beats jumping 23 gates and getting blueballed.

Take it from me I have done the roaming thing for way over a year and a half in both caldari and amarr. Plexing gets you more fights than roaming. you can qoute me on that.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#36 - 2012-08-28 11:58:19 UTC
Rina Kondur wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
join agony like I did or a corp like mine and learn to love to fight outnumbered


I seem to remember 7th Fleet leaving the militia because they couldn't plex like they used to. When did they turn into a PvP focused alliance?


http://i.imgur.com/1RxGM.png

[ 2012.08.23 04:32:17 ] Kaatje Thaxathinadin > its okay, lots of publord retards hold onto grudges like that

Some people can be so mad, when it's all about some LP here and there.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2012-08-28 16:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:


http://i.imgur.com/1RxGM.png

[ 2012.08.23 04:32:17 ] Kaatje Thaxathinadin > its okay, lots of publord retards hold onto grudges like that

Some people can be so mad, when it's all about some LP here and there.


I'm glad the only thing you can come up with to slander our organization is a play on local spam we came up with after plexing/flipping 2 systems in our first week of FW. Keep being angry Cynthia, apparently it's the only thing you are good at.

Akai Kvaesir wrote:

1.) The utterly insane level of paranoia, distrust, and infighting amongst the whole Militia. Whether coming from bittervets, or nullsec alliances, the fear of "spais" made any attempt at rallying defensive or offensive fleets (not even counting the bitter hatred of the "legions of PVE farmwhores"). Furthermore, any attempt at cooperation - between the FW vets/corps and the nullsec alliances like FWeddit - was impossible not only on the basis of ego, but also on comms.


A few things- First off, there is a grand total of about 6 active people in Fweddit from nullsec (3 of them are directors); after we all ran with a few of the general militia fleets, and that abomination of a kitchen sink StrayShot used to fly around- we decided we were better off on our own.

At the peak of Fweddits first month in FW, we had 70 people in corp, online at all times of the day. There was literally no reason to open invites to the rest of the militia, so we did what we did. Why complicate things by trying to get through to people that we were going to fly thrashers and only thrashers? After some time we opened fleets to the general militia, we set personal standings with corps we commonly flew with so they could always join our fleets, and we generally accepted anyone that would download the Mumble client and **** up comms with us.

The only thing the general Amarr Militia gave Fweddit, was about 17 channels to pretend to care about, and literally the worst intel channel in the game, that didn't blink a single time for over a month. We did get some quality laughs at 7th Fleets expense, normally listening to FHP talk out of his ass "40 Arty Thrashers can alpha a Vindicator" and watching StrayShot primary things that were 200km off the fleet.


Stalking Mantis wrote:
Rina Kondur wrote:

I seem to remember 7th Fleet leaving the militia because they couldn't plex like they used to. When did they turn into a PvP focused alliance?


Do your homework. Check the killboards. then make passing remarks on faction warfare corporations/pilots.


Funny I seem to have logs from our Diplomatic discussions about you telling us 95% of your alliance was in Amarr FW to farm L5 Amarr Navy missions, plex, and generally be ISKmongers (i.e. Har Harrison). That only a core few people in 7th were in it for the fights; also funny that you repeated the same story less than a week ago in Militia chat.

If you're here to carebear, just say you're here to be a digusting carebear. Not everyone in EVE is spacerich, try and get like me.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#38 - 2012-08-28 17:10:37 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
It is by and large a phyrric victory because there's nowhere to go to really and truly farm ISK, ....t;

1. Minmatar FW missions
2. Move alts to Caldari front and run plexes all you want.

Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-08-29 11:14:10 UTC
Xolve wrote:


Stalking Mantis wrote:
Rina Kondur wrote:

I seem to remember 7th Fleet leaving the militia because they couldn't plex like they used to. When did they turn into a PvP focused alliance?


Do your homework. Check the killboards. then make passing remarks on faction warfare corporations/pilots.


Funny I seem to have logs from our Diplomatic discussions about you telling us 95% of your alliance was in Amarr FW to farm L5 Amarr Navy missions, plex, and generally be ISKmongers (i.e. Har Harrison). That only a core few people in 7th were in it for the fights; also funny that you repeated the same story less than a week ago in Militia chat.

If you're here to carebear, just say you're here to be a digusting carebear. Not everyone in EVE is spacerich, try and get like me.


Ok, let me backtrack to my above quote and emphasis the word corporations/pilots. I cannot speak for nor even promote my Alliance.

That being said there is truth in what you said above about the pve aspects and in fact it is hardly a secret.

Looking at my corporation's pilots the number is FAR more than the actual active pilots. A large number that coincidentally stopped logging in after inferno and the ability to log in, choose a level five/four from the Imperial Navy station in Sahtogas and pve their little heart out under the blue pacts that were available pre-inferno with the local sahtogas pirates.

Fast forward to today (the post-inferno period) and what we have in my corp is a core group of dedicated pvp'ers that choose plexing as a means to get fights. Remember plexing for the current pilots of my corporation is not the goal (that cannot be said for many a 'FW' corporation sadly). Plexing to ARETR is a means to a goal (pvp) not a goal in and of itself.

Just to clarify I wrote the above.

As far as the obvious problem some of the Alliance (and even my corps pilots) have with Fweddit. The way I see it; it is a personal 'I hate you I am better than you' case and you know it does not represent the corporations veiw of fweddit.

Besides hotpocket hasn't been on in weeks he logs in to switch skills, flames the fweddit boys in militia chat for lols and logs out. As far as Cynthia...well Cynthia is just a little lost girl full of anger rage and hate. BUT she is a pilot in my alliance and I consider her a close pvp friend. So she is MY little lost friend full of anger rage and hate.

BESIDES, wake the EF up xolve, haven't you noticed it is a prerequisite to be full of rage to be part of my corporation and alliance?

P.S. Har Harrison submitted his resignation today. Looks like we lost out designated corp salvager. Oh well.

P.P.S. When will I get another chance to roam with a 'just dont give a EFF' fleet from fweddit I still have to visit my parole officer weekly after that fleet with Arnold Schwarzenegger having what appears to be 'sex' with one of the 'My Little Ponies' on comms while we roamed. Good Times Good Times.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#40 - 2012-08-29 11:24:23 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
As far as Cynthia...well Cynthia is just a little lost girl full of anger rage and hate. BUT she is a pilot in my alliance and I consider her a close pvp friend. So she is MY little lost friend full of anger rage and hate.


So I said like a week ago I don't post in these forums anymore, because it full of boring trolls and raging newbies, but hey, isn't it cure this is now the 2nd thread about me? ♥♥♥

Some fweddit rage:
I'm glad the only thing you can come up with to slander our organization is a play on local spam we came up with after plexing/flipping 2 systems in our first week of FW. Keep being angry Cynthia, apparently it's the only thing you are good at.

blahblah

I remember I told you when you formed your lovely little corp to do this and that to be successful in militia. You called me names, and said you will never do it. One of these things I told you was plexing. You were so proud you will never do it, because you are here to have fun with t1 thrashers. Then LOTS OF PEOPLE worked hard on systems, as it was always the way of militia. You came in last few % of bunker busting, and then it was all "fweddit took raa/lamaa/whatever ALL ALONE" BIG PLAYS
So in the end, you were doing what I was telling you to do and you also gave me 7 free kills. So I don't know what to say to you? Good doggie? Lol
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