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High-sec Incursion Runners Community Agreement (HIRCA) - To Be Signed and Discussed (TVP, TDF, ISN)

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Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-08-27 10:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Matriarch Prime
Hmm, I guess I won't be bothering with incursions any time soon if this is what is all about. And it was one of the things I was looking forward to trying after having been away from the game a while.

You guys should look at yourselves. You've turned a neat feature into a schoolyard politics.

edit:

Here's a novel idea. How about the best fleet wins? I don't who is doing what, but if someone were going around simply despawning events simply to **** people off, I be focusing on how to stop that. Not who gets a turn chopping down the isk tree.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-08-27 11:44:52 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it.


Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye.



I would like to update you.

ISN Mainly Runs Vanguard's and Assaults.

Vanguards 12 on grid

Assaults 20 on grid

HQ's 40 on grid


ISN is all about contesting and isk per hour, there is a lot of players who play for fun and other things, Our's is Isk, Slandering a community off isn't going to prove anything, Especially if you lack the correct information.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#43 - 2012-08-27 13:10:51 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it.


Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye.



I would like to update you.

ISN Mainly Runs Vanguard's and Assaults.

Vanguards 12 on grid

Assaults 20 on grid

HQ's 40 on grid


ISN is all about contesting and isk per hour, there is a lot of players who play for fun and other things, Our's is Isk, Slandering a community off isn't going to prove anything, Especially if you lack the correct information.


Most of these toons are known trolls or incursion griefers that love nothing more than seeing carebear tears. Most eveident from thier lack of attention to the main topic and the determination to swap focus from, how we can get along, to how we are getting more than we deserve.

Go find a low sec gate to camp while you play WOW rather than troll the forums.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#44 - 2012-08-27 13:18:12 UTC
All i know is that i am having fun atm by contesting and being in this no rule state of things...so i dont care if agreement is not reached,but cant say it isnt sound idea.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Weasel Juice
Mayhem and Destruction
#45 - 2012-08-27 13:21:47 UTC
It's a sensible draft overall, and covers a lot of points.

There are a few details that are slightly off, like personally I'd rather have "full mom fleet" be defined by the capability rather than actual numbers, especially since Kundalini Manifests have been done with 40 and less people, down to 28 even. Because reality is that neither TDF (post-patch) nor ISN have so far fielded those numbers themselves, but they managed just fine with less.

But those are minor details to be worked out.



Sure, it's written by one person alone, but it's a first draft that has now entered public peer review. Through that public peer review it gains the community tag, since we not only get to see it, but get to discuss it, and discuss it within our communities to what points we agree on, and whether we decide to sign it.


And also it would be nice if we could keep the arguing and slandering about each other out of this topic, especially since that's one of the points it's trying to remove as well.
True Xtian
True Xero
#46 - 2012-08-27 13:24:14 UTC
☻/
/▌
/ \
Ariak Rykard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-08-27 13:33:43 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
[
Channels are never mixed for practical reasons. What you described has been done before when "BTL" (the main shield channel back then) spawned "BTL Armor" for their own reasons.
It never really took off as a reliable armor channel.

High-sec incursion runners need to put their perspective right.

ISN (plus other channels) have been around for quite a bit during the BTL/TDF era of MOM rotation. They truly don't need the MOM kill to increase their isk efficiency, because elite fleets are only interested in one thing - the best isk/hour. I farmed literally millions of LP without batting an eye of who gets to kill the MOM. If I wanted the experience, I'll just catch any TDF/BTL mom fleet with the right ship as EITHER fleets will have experienced FC leading them. This sudden interest from ISN means only one thing - someone's bored.

The majority high-sec incursion runners aren't interested in the politics. The BTL/TDF era condition was simple :

Kill MOM when it withdraws.

How difficult is it to understand five words of English? Good grief.
Now play nice children.



+1......million Blink

    ̿ ̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\==((•̪●))==/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿ b(",b) ob(-.0)do (d.")d
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#48 - 2012-08-27 13:41:03 UTC
As always a good topic with valid points is ground down to trolls and misinformation. My opinion, TVP should continue in their current tactic, only allow one high sec incursion to be up at a time. This guarantees their member base will be reduced to a number barely capable of fielding competent Scout site fleet. Then the whole problem will resolve itself, Incursions will be back in the hands of the local incursion chat, we all remember those fleets, many of them ending in the death of the entire fleet usually for the LULZ of greifers.

Explaining these points is ideally a distraction from the more serious topic this thread was started for. I would regard the trolls and disinformation as a tactic but that would be attributing duplicity, insight and depth to the management of TVP. No, I think this is just a case of management losing their community focus and sadly trying to keep their pie to themselves.

The easy solution is to do nothing and let the monster die and see if the new incarnation of ‘organized Incursion Community’ fairs better than the old.

Or read the agreement at the beginning of this thread; implement it in phases or all at once. Then go back to making pirate tears as we make ISK and have fun in a way thankfully obsolete of grief and trolls with the exception of the occasional “YOUR FIT SUCKS” post in chat. :)

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Ariak Rykard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-08-27 13:45:34 UTC
Awww, but you can't let BTL/TVP die! Where you gonna find fresh meat when you're all old and toothless? Shocked

    ̿ ̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\==((•̪●))==/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿ b(",b) ob(-.0)do (d.")d
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#50 - 2012-08-27 14:08:26 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Quaaid wrote:

With that said, worry about how to even get the MOM loot before you divide it up. :)



If they ever implement Crimwatch or fix loot drops so everyone in fleet can fire/scram the looter ( not just 1 corp in the fleet ) then we'd have the loot pretty much every time.


Um... Yeah cause mo griefer will attempt to steal the loot drop know when you all pop them, there is a chance the loot will pop too causing grief. Sorry, but crime watch won't stop people from griefing for griefs sake.
Kodavor
Iz Doge Korp .
#51 - 2012-08-27 14:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kodavor
Sean Whedon wrote:
This was written by me and me alone with the intention of solidifying all Incursion Communities:

------------------------------


HIGH-SEC INCURSION RUNNERS COMMUNITY AGREEMENT (HIRCA)


0. INTRODUCTION TO CHANNELS:
a. The Valhalla Project (TVP) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships. Accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any shield focused pilot, without bias.

b. The Ditanian Fleet (TDF) - An Incursion Community focused on armor tanked ships. Also accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any armor focused pilot, without bias.

c. Incursion Shiny Network (ISN) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships, with the addition of ISK Per Hour being the fundamental strategy. Accepts pilots capable of flying specific ships, fit in a specific way, for the sake of efficiency and speed. Must be willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics.

1. MOM ROTATION:
a. The Valhalla Project (TVP), The Ditanian Fleet (TDF), Incursion Shiny Network (ISN), followed by "Community X."
b. All MOM Rotation slots are subject to being "Contested."

1a. COMMUNITY X:
aa. Community X defined as any other willing Incursion Community with sufficient pilot numbers able to field a full SCOUT, VANGUARD, ASSAULT, HEADQUARTERS, and MOM fleet at the same time (roughly 130 pilots minimum) during their respective Incursion Community's Peak Playtime Hours.

1b. CONTESTED:
ba. If any Incursion Community is incapable of fielding a full MOM fleet (at least 60 pilots) by the designated "Courtesy Time Frame," a welcomed and acceptable Contest shall be allowed, which may include any and all EVE Online Communities capable of fielding a full MOM fleet, regardless of MOM Rotation.

1a. COURTESY TIME FRAME:
aa. A Courtesy Time Frame of 10 - 12 hours after the Incursion site has began Withdrawing. This Courtesy Time Frame is to allow all the Incursion Community to move themselves to the next high-sec Incursion site. If no new high-sec Incursion site is available upon reaching Courtesy Time Frame, then Courtesy Time Frame will be pushed back until an available high-sec Incursion site spawns.

2. PROPAGANDA:
a. All Incursion Communities must agree to use no forms of Propaganda to belittle, harass, misinform, disrespect, falsely accuse, or otherwise deface or defame any other Incursion Community.

3. BAN LISTS:
a. Any and all Ban Lists must be updated to remove no longer necessary character names, corporations, and/or alliances; updated Ban Lists are to be made available as public domain.

4. NINJA LOOTERS AND GRIEFERS:
a. All Incursion Communities (labeled "Incursion Runners Community," here on IRC) must cease and desist Ninja Looting MOM Site Drops and the overall Griefing of Incursion sites.

1a. Incursion Runners Community (IRC):
aa. IRC is defined as all Incursion Communities willing and able to sign this Agreement, despite having the pilot numbers to gain a MOM Rotation slot.

ab. IRC should include a Panel of channel CEOs (labeled "Chief Executive Panel," here on CEP) which should also include Third Party "Civilian" members acting as their respective Community's Diplomat (labeled "Community 'Civilian' Diplomat," here on CCD).

1a. CCDs are to be chosen by either their respective Incursion Community as a whole or by IRC's CEP, in Good Faith.
1b. CCD's purpose is to help discuss and share view points which may be missed by IRCs CEP and be in no way biased toward any one community.

5. MOM SITE DROPS:
a. MOM Site Drops are the sole property of the victors of MOM Site, which will be internally decided upon by the victor's Incursion Community CEOs as to how to handle MOM Site Drops, or by agreement of IRCs CEP, in Good Faith.

6. DECISION MAKING:
a. No decisions can be made by any one Incursion Community, whether in Good Faith or not, without IRCs CEP being given the opportunity, with full Due-Diligence, to give opinion on the matter.


Very good proposition .
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#52 - 2012-08-27 14:49:01 UTC
This crap is still allowed in hisec? Nerf again.
Bruce Wie
Useless Industries
Memento Moriendo
#53 - 2012-08-27 15:37:43 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
TVP will never fly with ISN, because ISN are in fact griefing assholes. I have no affiliation with the leadership of TVP, however all you have to do is stop by the in game channel and this will be confirmed repeatedly.



A) isn do not grief they contect you dumbass
B) Tvp pilots fly everyday with Isn or havent you been in ISn Secondary
C) You mad bro

Your tinfoil hat is in the post.
Bruce Wie
Useless Industries
Memento Moriendo
#54 - 2012-08-27 15:38:56 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it.


Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye.



MMMM so 12 on gid is too many ---
Grow up
Oh and yes Maor tears ty

Your tinfoil hat is in the post.
retardedpandacake
Tax Dodgems
#55 - 2012-08-27 16:08:59 UTC
don't need no agreement, it's a game, everyone should be able to complete all the content if they want to regardless of who they fly with.
Drekarg
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-08-27 16:12:59 UTC
Terrible carebears spitting their ISK dummies out of the pram, if you can't play nice with your incursion toy CCP should take it away!

There's that many of you in your respective groups you should stop this forum faggottry and get in game and fight it out if you care that much.
Sean Whedon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-08-27 16:26:55 UTC
retardedpandacake wrote:
don't need no agreement, it's a game, everyone should be able to complete all the content if they want to regardless of who they fly with.

which ideally would work. unfortunately, channel CEOs are having their communities argue and take out MOM sites early just to spite the other community, leaving the incursion community to move every single day, waste lots of time contesting sites for the sake of preventing isk making of others and then requiring no one to ask the question of "why" and telling all to just do what you're told. drama left and right. no need for it. its spiteful and unnecessary, childish, and ridiculous. this is to prevent this from happening in future. so far, the "bad guys" are the only ones commenting about it being worth doing. the other community? well, the general pilots have EVE mailed me and convoed me privately to tell me im right and its dumb. the point is to prevent killing off the community and be sure no one tries to misuse their pilots/channel members for their own concept of whats right and wrong.

Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973

Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944
retardedpandacake
Tax Dodgems
#58 - 2012-08-27 16:42:02 UTC
The game is designed so that drama can happen so why prevent it?
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#59 - 2012-08-27 18:01:42 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
LilRemmy wrote:
I sign to have all incursions moved to lowsec and 0.0.

Tada!


WOW you NULL SECCerz are doing a GREAT JOB with them NULL Incursions, huh?
Since the Escalation nerf not a single null/lo incursion has been killed by the players... they just stagnate & withdraw on thier own.
So why should they be moved there when they are not being run? So us HI SEC pilots will come out & do your jobs for you Roll
I say if you guys in NULL/LO are not doing them, Incursions should all be moved to HI SEC along with the Revenant BPC drop
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#60 - 2012-08-27 18:20:10 UTC
OR you could gather your sizeable incursion community and go run them yourselves....

Just a thought.