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Rookie System Page Update

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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#241 - 2012-08-30 12:03:15 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Because I don't make the rules. This is not a personal policy discussion, this is a rule discussion. If you keep insisting that the proper rule is "Don't mess with Rookies in Rookie systams," you have to define "Rookie" if you want to effectively provide protection.


You should stop acting like a proper Murican and start thinking. Use common sense.

Pipa Porto wrote:
Why is it that you're so insistent that the rules remain vague, unprotective, and impossible to see before breaking?


Before breaking? You say that like shooting week old rookies is a new thing...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#242 - 2012-08-30 12:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
Yes, we already know that the official list of protected system does not match the protected systems. That's the entire problem. Keep up.


So, actual problem is that you don't know systems related to SoE epic arc.

Even when list of those systems were listed in post I linked...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#243 - 2012-08-30 12:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
You should stop acting like a proper Murican and start thinking. Use common sense.
You should stop acting like a proper griefer and start explaining why the rules should remain unclear and unprotective of newbies.

If there is a common-sense definition, why are you so utterly unable to provide it?

Quote:
So, actual problem is that you don't know systems related to SoE.
No. The problem is that the rules are unclear, and that they are so by design, since this lack of clarity only ever creates massive wiggle-room for greifers and exploiters such as you.

By the way, the rule doesn't say that the SoE systems are protected, so tank you for further illustrating the gap between official and internal policy.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#244 - 2012-08-30 12:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
By the way, the rule doesn't say that the SoE systems are protected, so tank you for further illustrating the gap between official and internal policy.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1467790#post1467790

Read it.

Just in case you didn't know I'm not a griefer.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#245 - 2012-08-30 12:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1467790#post1467790

Read it.
Nice of you to agree. Do you see the problem now? Or… wait… maybe you didn't read this post you're so fond of linking to?

Why is it so important for you that this wiggle-room and lack of clarity remains?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#246 - 2012-08-30 12:27:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nice of you to agree. Do you see the problem now? Or… wait… maybe you didn't read this post you're so fond of linking to?


Yes, I read it already. Looks like you haven't read it yet.

Problem: griefers shooting week old rookies in SoE epic arc systems.

Tippia wrote:
Why is it so important for you that this wiggle-room and lack of clarity remains?


No, it's you who wants a clear set of rules so you can easily find the way to exploit them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#247 - 2012-08-30 12:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Yes, I read it already.
So you noticed that the official list of protected system does not include the entire SoE arc.
You noticed that the topic of the thread is about exactly that: the official rules do not match the internal rules they're apparently enforcing.

So why is it so important for you that this wiggle-room and lack of clarity remains? Why do you keep referring to a post that proves me right as if it were an argument that I was not?

Quote:
No, it's you who wants a clear set of rules so you can easily find the way to exploit them.
Incorrect, no matter how often you try to use it as an argument. You have yet to come up with a single exploit with the proposed policy to show that it's even possible, whereas the current rules are demonstrably easy to exploit and you want to keep them.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#248 - 2012-08-30 12:35:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So you noticed that the official list of protected system does not include the entire SoE arc.
You noticed that the topic of the thread is about exactly that: the official rules do not match the internal rules they're apparently enforcing.


Learn to read.

GM Homonoia wrote:
Present day
Now these scavengers of corpses have moved to the Sisters of EVE epic arc systems to do the exact same thing once again. This is forcing us to extend this ban to the Arnon system as well. Let me state very clearly that we do so with great reluctance. We do NOT like to impose rules and limitations like these upon the sandbox and we do not do so lightly. These measures are always debated hotly within our department and can often take multiple months of deliberation to make absolutely sure we are doing the right thing.

Let me state this very clearly here. We do NOT want experienced players to mess with rookies barely a week in. We are sure that you have worthier targets than these players who are still learning the ropes. If this behavior does not stop we may extend this rule to all systems that are covered in the Sisters of EVE epic arc. These systems are:

- Tar
- Harerget
- Hatakani
- Hek
- Lustrevik
- Tanoo
- Lisudeh
- Sosh
- Manarq
- Chainelant
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#249 - 2012-08-30 12:41:48 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Learn to read.
Please do:
GM Homonoia wrote:
We are extending our rookie griefing rules to the system of Arnon.
That is all.

The official rule is that the rookie systems is protected territory. Notice how this list does not include systems such as Tar, Harerget, Hatakani, Hek, Lustrevik, Tanoo, Lisudeh, Sosh, Manarq, Chainelant. Now notice the topic of the thread: they are apparently enforcing rules outside the list of rookie systems — the official rule differs from the internal rules they are enforcing.

Do you see the problem now or are you going to continue to play stupid because you want this kind of wiggle-room and lack of clarity to remain? By the way, why is that? Why are you so against a clear rule that you can't even imagine any way to exploit?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#250 - 2012-08-30 12:48:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Why are you so against a clear rule that you can't even imagine any way to exploit?


What clear rule are you suggesting?

Why you skip this part every time?

GM Homonoia wrote:
Let me state this very clearly here. We do NOT want experienced players to mess with rookies barely a week in. We are sure that you have worthier targets than these players who are still learning the ropes. If this behavior does not stop we may extend this rule to all systems that are covered in the Sisters of EVE epic arc.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#251 - 2012-08-30 12:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
What clear rule are you suggesting?
The one presented in this and earlier threads, which you have read on numerous occasions.

I take it you pick the “continue to play stupid” option, then.

Quote:
Why you skip this part every time?
Because you're playing stupid by pretending not to notice that it's not part of the official rules yet, and that this gap between official and internal is the topic of the thread.

The official rule is that they've expended the rookie system list to include Arnon. That is all.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#252 - 2012-08-30 12:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
What clear rule are you suggesting?
The one presented in this and earlier threads, which you have read on numerous occasions.

I take it you pick the “continue to play stupid” option, then.

Quote:
Why you skip this part every time?
Because you're playing stupid by pretending not to notice that it's not part of the official rules yet, and that this gap between official and internal is the topic of the thread.

The official rule is that they've expended the rookie system list to include Arnon. That is all.


It only shows that they think you guys are pushing the limits of ruling a bit too far already.

If you don't want those systems listed as "protected systems" then stop shooting week old rookies.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#253 - 2012-08-30 13:03:07 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It only shows that they think I am pushing the limits of ruling a bit too far already.
Maybe you should stop then, and not be so blatant about wanting to retain a system that's open to abuse.

For instance, you could try to come up with a good reason why the proposed policy would be bad.

Quote:
If you don't want those systems listed as "protected systems" then stop shooting week old rookies.
So you understand the topic of the thread now? That the official policy and the internal policy does not match — that there is, your feeble and unproven protestations aside, an inherent and deliberate lack of clarity in the current rule set.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#254 - 2012-08-30 13:06:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
For instance, you could try to come up with a good reason why the proposed policy would be bad.


What is your proposed policy if it's not the one currently used?

You keep saying current system can't be exploited.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#255 - 2012-08-30 13:09:18 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
What is your proposed policy
Read the thread.

Quote:
You keep saying current system can't be exploited.
Incorrect.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#256 - 2012-08-30 13:11:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
What is your proposed policy
Read the thread.


if they list SoE epic arc systems in that list it doesn't change the policy.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#257 - 2012-08-30 13:13:26 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
if they list SoE epic arc systems in that list it doesn't change the policy.
Stop playing stupid. Read the thread.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#258 - 2012-08-30 13:16:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Stop playing stupid. Read the thread.


Oh, you mean the sandbox one: you want this ruling removed.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#259 - 2012-08-30 13:18:25 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Oh, you mean the sandbox one: you want this ruling removed.
Stop playing stupid. Read the thread.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#260 - 2012-08-30 13:23:59 UTC
New overview category: "Is a rookie." Flashy light-blue background as default display. Players meet "Is a rookie" with three criteria: first, their account is younger than 30 days old, second, they haven't committed an action which would permanently and automatically revoke their 'is a rookie' status, third, they're in highsec. When "is a rookie" players lose a ship or pod to a player, a popup asks them if they'd like to petition the death; if they do, they're given a template that includes details from the killmail.

GMs can work out with the programmers what actions should void 'is a rookie'. I'd say: accepting a contract, receiving isk (they can reject the isk with a popup), acquiring a GCC, acquing more than 250mil isk, stealing more often than some limit, blah.

It's not supposed to be a watertight protection -- actually, most thought should be given to how it could be abused, and how it could discourage players from doing things are actually fun in this game (like going GCC). But it'd sure simplify things to see a flashy light-blue background on a player.