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Pre-defined Probe Formations
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Haxxi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-08-26 10:22:40 UTC
Would it be possible to give us pre-defined probe formations?

Like i launch my probes, put them in a formation and then press a save button and the next time i launch probes i can choose the formation without having to move the probes around. It's just a waste of time to do it each time, especially when you scan systems for explo sites or whatever.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#2 - 2012-08-26 10:24:20 UTC
That's actually quite a good idea. I'm still going to say "put it in Features and Ideas", but in a "that's a good idea and CCP should read it" way rather than a "get out of my GD you noob" way.

Of course I expect many replies saying it "dumbs down" probing or makes it too easy.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-26 10:26:45 UTC
Everything is a waste of time in some way or the other, if you just argument it the right way.

How about seeking a more efficient way of dropping and positioning them ?
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#4 - 2012-08-26 10:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
The current system is already 100x easier then the old one. Having preformed locations would dumb down a already simple system. Might as well just remove probing and just click scan and get sites..


Demolishar wrote:


Of course I expect many replies saying it "dumbs down" probing or makes it too easy.


Oops

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-08-26 10:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Demolishar wrote:
That's actually quite a good idea. I'm still going to say "put it in Features and Ideas", but in a "that's a good idea and CCP should read it" way rather than a "get out of my GD you noob" way.

Of course I expect many replies saying it "dumbs down" probing or makes it too easy.


The problem with this is, that "making things faster/easier" has no end.
It's an ever ongoing process making people accustomed to things getting easier,
which leads to people not having to actually work for something,
but just asking others to do it for them.

It's the lack of challenge people get used to ... and suddenly they don't want challenge at all.

Things like this ... probing formations ... are just a minor part of the overall picture of people not wanting to do something,
with the argument that it's a waste of time.

EVERYTHING is a waste of time. There is NOTHING that's not a waste of time,
you just need the right arguments.

edit: Your post was a waste of time. My post was a waste of time. Still the OP posted it, instead of doing something
more fruitfull or productive. See what i mean ? He INTENTIONALLY wasted his time, although he didn't perceive it as such. That's actually a really stupid thing to do and yet he did it.

More and more people cry about things being a "waste of time" and
what's hidden behind their argument is that it's "effort".

"Effort" is a waste of time, thus please give me a way to deal with this faster/easier.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#6 - 2012-08-26 10:32:58 UTC
I don't think it's a bad idea. He's only asking for a more user friendly feature for the UI, not for the sites to be nerfed. Since when has it been a bad thing to create a more user-friendly interface?

Oh god.
Haxxi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-08-26 10:34:12 UTC
It's not about making things faster. In my opinion there are things that need brain and skill and whatever and then there are things that are just monotone and dumb things that are annoying and waste your time. Putting probes into formation has nothing to to with creativity or being "better" than others. It's just annoying.

So it doesn't make it easier to find sites or ships. It just takes out a boring part of launching probes. If you fear that it makes probing too fast then add a timer and say the formation takes 5 or 10 seconds to finish.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-08-26 10:34:41 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
I don't think it's a bad idea. He's only asking for a more user friendly feature for the UI, not for the sites to be nerfed. Since when has it been a bad thing to create a more user-friendly interface?

No, he's not.
He' asking for "effort" to be removed, not for making something more user-friendly.

There are hundreds of things that could be hidden behind the "user-friendly"-argument,
but again ... it's only about removing "effort".

And the arguments already keep coming ...
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#9 - 2012-08-26 10:35:02 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
I don't think it's a bad idea. He's only asking for a more user friendly feature for the UI, not for the sites to be nerfed. Since when has it been a bad thing to create a more user-friendly interface?


It really has nothing to do with UI. Having predefined formation mostly removes the challenge of actually finding a site.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Haxxi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-08-26 10:38:34 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:

It really has nothing to do with UI. Having predefined formation mostly removes the challenge of actually finding a site.


Ok you need to explain that. How does it remove the challenge to find a site? It's not like the probe automatically launches at the spot of the site. I think you dont understand what i'm asking for. The probes just launch where your ship is and put themself into formation as you would do it in a manually monotone way too. Then you have to adjust them and move them around to find your sites like you do it anyway
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-08-26 10:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Haxxi wrote:
It's not about making things faster. In my opinion there are things that need brain and skill and whatever and then there are things that are just monotone and dumb things that are annoying and waste your time. Putting probes into formation has nothing to to with creativity or being "better" than others. It's just annoying.

So it doesn't make it easier to find sites or ships. It just takes out a boring part of launching probes. If you fear that it makes probing too fast then add a timer and say the formation takes 5 or 10 seconds to finish.


There are several ways to drop your probes and there are ways to do it faster or slower.
You're just doing it in a non-efficient way.


Quote:
It's just a waste of time to do it each time, especially when you scan systems for explo sites or whatever.


Quote:
If you fear that it makes probing too fast then add a timer and say the formation takes 5 or 10 seconds to finish.

Ah ... so now it's not a "waste of time" anymore, but actually "effort".

Thanks for proving my point.
It's not about the time, it's about the effort ... as you just stated.


What i really hate about people is when they just drop random arguments that fit,
just so they get what they want.


Too bad people will not see behind this and actually still respond to you ...
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#12 - 2012-08-26 10:45:05 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
I don't think it's a bad idea. He's only asking for a more user friendly feature for the UI, not for the sites to be nerfed. Since when has it been a bad thing to create a more user-friendly interface?

No, he's not.
He' asking for "effort" to be removed.


I wasn't aware effort was an important feature of scanning. Of course in real life, if such probes existed, it would be impossible to imagine that designers would create them in such a way that they could move in predefined patterns or have programmable formations to allow them to be used more conveniently... Even if they could, they would probably refuse to because that would be dumbing down their jobs and removing the effort it takes to do their jobs and no-one wants that.

Oh god.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#13 - 2012-08-26 10:48:44 UTC
Haxxi wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:

It really has nothing to do with UI. Having predefined formation mostly removes the challenge of actually finding a site.


Ok you need to explain that. How does it remove the challenge to find a site? It's not like the probe automatically launches at the spot of the site. I think you dont understand what i'm asking for. The probes just launch where your ship is and put themself into formation as you would do it in a manually monotone way too. Then you have to adjust them and move them around to find your sites like you do it anyway


Figuring out a proper formation is part of learning how to probe, not only that people use different methods and formations based off of learning how to probe. Having them just plop out in a single formation would remove that learning curve as well as remove most thought needed in learning how to probe. It's already easy to set it up with being able to shift-click move/resize, I don't see why it would even be needed for those who already know how to probe to need predefined formations, actually I would see it as annoying.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#14 - 2012-08-26 10:53:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Serena Serene
I think it's a good thing to have to position the probes manually. It's already been made really easy to get a warp-in on a signal once you found it by the ability to scale the probe-formation you set up with the alt key.

The manual positioning and how fast you are doing that, how good you are to quickly bring your probes in a good formation can make differences when you have to scan down ships. Being fast here, or being prepared by prearranging your probes, is a real advantage, and so it is one more way player-skill or foresight is rewarded.

Edit: I realize I'm talking about mere seconds here, but those can be important, too.
Haxxi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-08-26 10:57:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Haxxi
Solstice Project wrote:

Ah ... so now it's not a "waste of time" anymore, but actually "effort".
.


Uhm yes it is ? Actually it's both. It's a no-brain effort that is just annoying and yes it saves time cause while the formation loads you could do stuff that is more useful for the world.

Brooks Puuntai wrote:

Blubb


Somehow you still dont get it. The formations dont get pre-defined by ccp. New players still have to find their lovely formation, then they can save it and re-use it the next time. When you launch them they are all at the same spot, then you move single probes to get a 7-probe-formation for example. It has nothing to do with brain or a super high learning curve. It's just a dumb effort you have to do each single freaking time for the rest of your life.

Serena Serene wrote:
I think it's a good thing to have to position the probes manually. It's already been made really easy to get a warp-in on a signal once you found it by the ability to scale the probe-formation you set up with the alt key.

The manual positioning and how fast you are doing that, how good you are to quickly bring your probes in a good formation can make differences when you have to scan down ships. Being fast here, or being prepared by prearranging your probes, is a real advantage, and so it is one more way player-skill or foresight is rewarded.

Edit: I realize I'm talking about mere seconds here, but those can be important, too.


Same for you :P I dont talk about the probes "following" sig IDs to scan them down. I only talk about putting the probes into formation when you launch them. So the only argument you could have is that it might save you 5 seconds. Then just implement it the way that it takes 5 seconds for the probes to get into formation. So nothing has changed for your example

Edit: That's the step i'm talking about. Can't see how it affects your "skill", "creativity" or the speed you probe down stuff and enemies. It's just a waste of time.

Formation
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#16 - 2012-08-26 11:07:51 UTC
Ah yes it was my mistake by overlooking the "save" part of it. My apologies. Even still I don't find it necessary, moving 4-5 probes around doesn't warrant the need for a feature like that.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Rhea Rankin Nolen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-08-26 11:13:36 UTC
GREAT IDEA!!! Even better to just launch probes and just hit 'scan' button to scan down things! I mean, why do we need to pinpoint those pesky sigs manually every single time? It's just a waste of time.. LOL

Also when you scan down pilots, it would give them less time to spot the probes on the d scan, with predefined..so hippy hip hooray for predefined probe formations! Big smile
Haxxi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-08-26 11:17:47 UTC
Rhea Rankin Nolen wrote:
GREAT IDEA!!! Even better to just launch probes and just hit 'scan' button to scan down things! I mean, why do we need to pinpoint those pesky sigs manually every single time? It's just a waste of time.. LOL

Also when you scan down pilots, it would give them less time to spot the probes on the d scan, with predefined..so hippy hip hooray for predefined probe formations! Big smile


Why do i get the feeling that really no one here reads what i'm saying -.- You can make it exactly the same time. As i said you can launch the probes and then they move into formation which could take 5 or 10 seconds if you want. They would be on d-scan exactly the same time. And you still need to scan to find the sig, move probes to the sig, adjust range and so on. It's only the step i linked in the picture.

Next time please read the text before answering. But thanks for trying ....
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#19 - 2012-08-26 11:24:19 UTC
Because a Boob formation works best, and it would be too much seeing players pop out boobs all the time.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#20 - 2012-08-26 11:25:21 UTC
Haxxi wrote:

[...]
So the only argument you could have is that it might save you 5 seconds. Then just implement it the way that it takes 5 seconds for the probes to get into formation. So nothing has changed for your example
[...]


I understood what you meant. But whether you make the formation you saved appear instantly upon clicking "load formation" or selecting it from a dropdown or whatever.. or whether you make it last 5 seconds.. it'll still make the difference between people who can arrange them in to their formation quickly and those who can't go away.

Yes, the difference isn't huge, but it's there and it's also not really that annoying to do that part manually. Like you said. it's only 5 seconds. And you won't do it that often anyway.. like once per system you're scanning in or something.
So I think there isn't much gained by having saveable and loadable formations either.

I'd instead like to see a way to avoid accidentally clicking on some celestial names instead of the probe when attempting to move it around.. without having to aim for that single right pixel.
(if there is already, please, for the love of god, tell me how!)
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