These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why are people so butt hurt about ECM
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Osabojo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-08-26 22:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Osabojo
Tippia wrote:
the quintessential proof


I normally have a lot of respect for your opinion, but please stop doing harm to reasonable discourse with nonsense phrases like this.
Hellraiza666
Bittervet Incorporated.
#62 - 2012-08-26 22:12:44 UTC
Quit your whining, you've got it easy nowadays with it being chance based! Before that ECM mods would stack and if there were more sensor points jamming you than your ship had, you were perma-jammed!

[img]http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/mitch/hell.jpg[/img]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#63 - 2012-08-26 22:14:23 UTC
Osabojo wrote:
I normally have a lot of respect for your opinion, but please stop doing harm to reasonable discourse with nonsense phrases like this.
Which of the two words do you have a problem with?
Gun Gal
Dark Club
#64 - 2012-08-26 22:22:36 UTC
so let me see, perfect dps fit junkies come to forum to whine and cry, saying ecm is too tough, i dont wanna gimp my uber fit in order to do well, or survive.

guess what, the only thing too tough for you obviously is EVE, so either htfu, or get lost, i hear GW2 is starting soon, maybe you can go play that and whine its too tough as well.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#65 - 2012-08-26 22:30:19 UTC
Gun Gal wrote:
so let me see, perfect dps fit junkies come to forum to whine and cry, saying ecm is too tough, i dont wanna gimp my uber fit in order to do well, or survive.
…except, of course, that they're not really saying that.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2012-08-26 22:35:41 UTC
Ooh brilliant idea.
ECM jams missiles while active making them do **** poor damage.
Autotargetting ignore this.

Suddenly parity is achieved over the board.
Osabojo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-08-26 22:37:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Osabojo wrote:
I normally have a lot of respect for your opinion, but please stop doing harm to reasonable discourse with nonsense phrases like this.
Which of the two words do you have a problem with?


There's no such thing as "quintessential proof" -- or even regular proof -- in Eve theory crafting. To imply otherwise is to poison the discussion from the very beginning.

Besides, I have yet to see any empirical evidence of an actual problem and not just a bunch of anecdotes and griping by people who've been jammed.
Frying Doom
#68 - 2012-08-26 22:38:42 UTC
Captain Robby wrote:
It is easy to counter use drones / FOF missile's / sensor damps and possibly some others its not the best EW its a good one i admit that but can be countered if you work around countering it.

Each EW weapon as such is used for debuffing a enamy ship if used right most people are going to call OP about it but why so much on ECM?

So i ask again why are people so butt hurt about it?

Because they want to be able to press F1 without thinking.

EvE-O Forums powered by whine.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#69 - 2012-08-26 22:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Osabojo wrote:
There's no such thing as "quintessential proof" -- or even regular proof -- in Eve theory crafting.
…but this isn't theory-crafting. It's not even about EVE. This is basic game design, and something being its own only counter is the quintessential proof that it's not balanced properly. If we look at how it has been applied to EVE, it's the fundamental reason why nano got nuked and it's the continuing reason supercaps are reeling close to the chopping block whenever they're not actually on it.

The moment you hear “bring some of your own” as an argument, you know it's a problem. The funny part is that the ones demonstrating the problem are the ones who wish to claim that it doesn't exist by using that argument…
Osabojo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-08-26 22:51:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Osabojo wrote:
There's no such thing as "quintessential proof" -- or even regular proof -- in Eve theory crafting.
…but this isn't theory-crafting. It's not even about EVE. This is basic game design, and something being its own only counter is the quintessential proof that it's not balanced properly. If we look at how it has been applied to EVE, it's the fundamental reason why nano got nuked and it's the continuing reason supercaps are reeling close to the chopping block whenever they're not actually on it.

The moment you hear “bring some of your own” as an argument, you know it's a problem. The funny part is that the ones demonstrating the problem are the ones who wish to claim that it doesn't exist by using that argument…


But it's not its only counter, is it? I know you are smart enough to know that, so you are probably just being dishonest, here.

ECM is a great way for lower SP players to pee in the Cheerios of higher SP players, and that's what these gripe threads are all about, end of story.
Ensign X
#71 - 2012-08-26 22:53:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
something being its own only counter is the quintessential proof that it's not balanced properly.


Except, in this case, there are multiple counters to ECM. Claiming more ECM is the only counter to ECM is disingenuous.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#72 - 2012-08-26 22:53:52 UTC
Osabojo wrote:
But it's not its only counter, is it?
It was argued as such. I'm merely pointing out that this argument only ever serves to prove that it needs to be fixed, which is often the opposite of what the person is trying to say.
Osabojo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-08-26 23:16:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Osabojo wrote:
But it's not its only counter, is it?
It was argued as such. I'm merely pointing out that this argument only ever serves to prove that it needs to be fixed, which is often the opposite of what the person is trying to say.


No, it wasn't. Saying ECM is susceptible to ECM is not the same as saying ECM is the only counter for ECM.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2012-08-26 23:19:13 UTC
Osabojo wrote:
No, it wasn't. Saying ECM is susceptible to ECM is not the same as saying ECM is the only counter for ECM.
…and it still amounts to “bring some of your own”, which is still a bad argument against a change because it only ever shows that there is a problem.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#75 - 2012-08-26 23:34:19 UTC
Consider something though; fleets that rely too heavily on ECM tend to spiral out of control once they take a few losses. ECM essentially gets countered much harder than the other ewars, while being possibly the best ewar to bring if the enemy is not prepared for any ewar.
Osabojo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2012-08-26 23:36:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Osabojo wrote:
No, it wasn't. Saying ECM is susceptible to ECM is not the same as saying ECM is the only counter for ECM.
…and it still amounts to “bring some of your own”, which is still a bad argument against a change because it only ever shows that there is a problem.


No, it doesn't amount to that, and even if it did, the burden is on you to demonstrate how not being able to bring a knife to a gun fight actually breaks the game.
Frying Doom
#77 - 2012-08-26 23:39:29 UTC
Osabojo wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Osabojo wrote:
No, it wasn't. Saying ECM is susceptible to ECM is not the same as saying ECM is the only counter for ECM.
…and it still amounts to “bring some of your own”, which is still a bad argument against a change because it only ever shows that there is a problem.


No, it doesn't amount to that, and even if it did, the burden is on you to demonstrate how not being able to bring a knife to a gun fight actually breaks the game.

This whole argument sounds very similar to the whole "They ganked my hulk" threads, strange how it was the very people who were against the mining barge re-balance who now seem to want something they can't figure out removed.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2012-08-26 23:42:44 UTC
Osabojo wrote:
No, it doesn't amount to that
…aside from him saying that you should bring ECM to beat the ECM, which does indeed mean you should bring some of your own. So it's the same argument, and it's still as counter-productive as when people tried it with nanos and supercaps.

Quote:
and even if it did, the burden is on you to demonstrate how not being able to bring a knife to a gun fight actually breaks the game.
As luck would have it, if someone else makes an argument, the burden of proof is not on me.
Osabojo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-08-26 23:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Osabojo
Tippia wrote:
Osabojo wrote:
No, it doesn't amount to that
…aside from him saying that you should bring ECM to beat the ECM, which does indeed mean you should bring some of your own. So it's the same argument, and it's still as counter-productive as when people tried it with nanos and supercaps.

Quote:
and even if it did, the burden is on you to demonstrate how not being able to bring a knife to a gun fight actually breaks the game.
As luck would have it, if someone else makes an argument, the burden of proof is not on me.


You are the one making the claim that ECM needs to be changed. But I don't blame you for wanting to abandon your line of argument. It's really terrible, and you should probably be ashamed.
Spurty
#80 - 2012-08-26 23:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
If webs were like ECM, they would completely 0 your speed instantly and for 20 seconds
If damps were like ECM, they would 0 your locking range for 20 Seconds
If Nuets were like ECM, they would zero you cap and it can't recharge for 20 seconds

That's why ECM is dumb

Not so dumb version would be for ECM to straight up lower the number of lockable targets by 1 point (2 if in a recon ship)

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP