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Unlimited TRIAL PERIOD
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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-08-26 19:57:11 UTC
If CCP ever tried to pull something like this their business would die from all the players leaving the new F2P EVE.
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#62 - 2012-08-27 14:00:29 UTC
Adeleda Adoudel wrote:
My trial wasnt 20 days. It was 3 days. After that i was hooked and willing to pay. Some will, some wont. Unlimited trials wont change that to my knowledge.

You knowledge in Management and Marketing maybe? Graphs showing where and more particularly when trial players log off and never come back?Just because you and me are here doesn't mean that we didn't loose 5 equal people.
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#63 - 2012-08-27 14:03:26 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
If CCP ever tried to pull something like this their business would die from all the players leaving the new F2P EVE.

Because a lot of people don't know the difference between F2P and Trial.F2P means nobody needs to pay except for Micro transactions, or other MMOG have the option F2P->Premium Account->F2P if you want.I am talking about trial, and if you switch to premium there is not going back.
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#64 - 2012-08-27 14:06:06 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
I'll tell you what I think in a nutshell.

If you haven't figured out in two weeks whether or not this game is for you then it isn't.

Mr Epeen Cool

Really?What makes you think so?have you seen nullsec PVP?Incursions?FW?Remember, not just one type of game play but as much as possible. Especially without someone holding your hand.


I agree with Mr Epeen. Your argument about seeing as many facets of the game is not as valid as you believe it is, there's only so much you can take in, even in a month. I only had a 14 day trial and nobody to pick me up as soon as I landed in the game. I was subbed up within the first 7 days. Within those 7 days I'd already managed to hook up with another newbie that just happened to be in the same boat as me and we spent that week flying about and learning for ourselves.

New players already have a lot to take in, trying to get them to experience everything in the game in their first few months is a little overkill. I really don't think that will keep more players any more than the current system does.



So what you are basically saying is that 14 days to experience all the sides of EVE is good and they should be happy with that but giving them more months will overload them?
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#65 - 2012-08-27 14:09:31 UTC
Gilgamesh19 Utama wrote:
Give the new player the option of the 14 21 30 or 60 day trial. However the longer you play for free the more restrictions on skills you can train.



Why?In the end he will have to choose either to play or not.Skill restrictions are good as they are.No Battleships, no T2 Ships, not Cynos.What more do you thing should left out?You have to give them as much fun as possible without disrupting the Game balance flooding it with 'freebies'.I think the balance is there, maybe with some review if this would be ever to happen.
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#66 - 2012-08-27 14:11:26 UTC
Gunny Sack wrote:
you're talking free to play model and you can stfu



F2P means you can switch between premium and F2P whenever you want.A trial is not that.
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-08-27 14:35:01 UTC
OP wants longer trials as there isn't enough time to do enough to get to know the game.
OP wants to limit trials further, so they can't be abused.

DOES NOT COMPUTE...
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#68 - 2012-08-27 14:45:40 UTC
Hauling Hal wrote:
OP wants longer trials as there isn't enough time to do enough to get to know the game.
OP wants to limit trials further, so they can't be abused.

DOES NOT COMPUTE...

I don't want to limit trials as I said that for me, the restrictions are fine.But if abusing is possible with longer period of trial that I am unaware off ,a review of the restrictions would not be bad.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#69 - 2012-08-27 14:54:43 UTC
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
I'll tell you what I think in a nutshell.

If you haven't figured out in two weeks whether or not this game is for you then it isn't.

Mr Epeen Cool

Really?What makes you think so?have you seen nullsec PVP?Incursions?FW?Remember, not just one type of game play but as much as possible. Especially without someone holding your hand.


I agree with Mr Epeen. Your argument about seeing as many facets of the game is not as valid as you believe it is, there's only so much you can take in, even in a month. I only had a 14 day trial and nobody to pick me up as soon as I landed in the game. I was subbed up within the first 7 days. Within those 7 days I'd already managed to hook up with another newbie that just happened to be in the same boat as me and we spent that week flying about and learning for ourselves.

New players already have a lot to take in, trying to get them to experience everything in the game in their first few months is a little overkill. I really don't think that will keep more players any more than the current system does.



So what you are basically saying is that 14 days to experience all the sides of EVE is good and they should be happy with that but giving them more months will overload them?


Nothing of the sort, that's what you're saying, What I'm saying is that new players don't need to experience every facet of the game. You seem to believe that they do and I know that's incorrect. They need to experience enough to get an idea if they like it or not and that does not mean having to see every facet of the game first hand straight away.

Part of the fun of EvE is being able to experience different parts of the game at your own pace, giving them a month and fast tracking them through everything is probably worse than what they get now, pure overload.

What new players actually need isn't what you propose, they don't need a month or more, what they really need is more guidance and advice for the short time they do have on trial. That's what I've been doing with a small group of new players and they're benefitting greatly from it. They could have had 3 months trial and still not gained as much benefit as they did from the first week or two of getting advice and guidance from myself and the other experienced players in my alliance.

Your proposed solution will not help in the long run.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#70 - 2012-08-27 15:22:49 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
I'll tell you what I think in a nutshell.

If you haven't figured out in two weeks whether or not this game is for you then it isn't.

Mr Epeen Cool

Really?What makes you think so?have you seen nullsec PVP?Incursions?FW?Remember, not just one type of game play but as much as possible. Especially without someone holding your hand.


I agree with Mr Epeen. Your argument about seeing as many facets of the game is not as valid as you believe it is, there's only so much you can take in, even in a month. I only had a 14 day trial and nobody to pick me up as soon as I landed in the game. I was subbed up within the first 7 days. Within those 7 days I'd already managed to hook up with another newbie that just happened to be in the same boat as me and we spent that week flying about and learning for ourselves.

New players already have a lot to take in, trying to get them to experience everything in the game in their first few months is a little overkill. I really don't think that will keep more players any more than the current system does.



So what you are basically saying is that 14 days to experience all the sides of EVE is good and they should be happy with that but giving them more months will overload them?


Nothing of the sort, that's what you're saying, What I'm saying is that new players don't need to experience every facet of the game. You seem to believe that they do and I know that's incorrect. They need to experience enough to get an idea if they like it or not and that does not mean having to see every facet of the game first hand straight away.

Part of the fun of EvE is being able to experience different parts of the game at your own pace, giving them a month and fast tracking them through everything is probably worse than what they get now, pure overload.

What new players actually need isn't what you propose, they don't need a month or more, what they really need is more guidance and advice for the short time they do have on trial. That's what I've been doing with a small group of new players and they're benefitting greatly from it. They could have had 3 months trial and still not gained as much benefit as they did from the first week or two of getting advice and guidance from myself and the other experienced players in my alliance.

Your proposed solution will not help in the long run.


Your proposal and mine are compatible.Why not both?
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-08-27 15:40:23 UTC
Ghost of Truth wrote:

Why the trial of the game is just 20 days?


Because CCP employees have to pay their rents, have to eat something etc.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#72 - 2012-08-27 15:54:30 UTC
Case A: User tries EVE, gets hooked within days, upgrades account to get his first industrial long before 14 days is up.

Case B: User tries EVE, can't figure out how to find a guild within ten minutes, undocks his ibis, loots the first can he sees, dies, never logs back in.

Case C: Enterprising alt recycler calculates that 14 and 21 days aren't quite long enough for the purpose he desires in training and starts a thread to campaign for longer free trials in the forums.


Case A and B are the most typical. Case B occasionally results in a thread 2 years later whereby the user claims he played long ago but the game has changed so much now and can he please has some free isk?

I suspect this thread is Case C.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#73 - 2012-08-27 15:56:54 UTC
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:

So what you are basically saying is that 14 days to experience all the sides of EVE is good and they should be happy with that but giving them more months will overload them?


Nothing of the sort, that's what you're saying, What I'm saying is that new players don't need to experience every facet of the game. You seem to believe that they do and I know that's incorrect. They need to experience enough to get an idea if they like it or not and that does not mean having to see every facet of the game first hand straight away.

Part of the fun of EvE is being able to experience different parts of the game at your own pace, giving them a month and fast tracking them through everything is probably worse than what they get now, pure overload.

What new players actually need isn't what you propose, they don't need a month or more, what they really need is more guidance and advice for the short time they do have on trial. That's what I've been doing with a small group of new players and they're benefitting greatly from it. They could have had 3 months trial and still not gained as much benefit as they did from the first week or two of getting advice and guidance from myself and the other experienced players in my alliance.

Your proposed solution will not help in the long run.


Your proposal and mine are compatible.Why not both?


If you feel that you weren't able to experience everything you wanted to in the 14 day trial, either ask someone for a 21 day trial or just start a new 14 day trial. Extending the free trial could and probably would be abused by existing players for a number of purposes. CCP have probably done a decent amount of research into how long they should set the length of the trial for and have settled on 14 or 21 days for good reasons to prevent giving too many benefits to existing players when creating new accounts.

Focus on giving the new players more help and advice during those first 2 or 3 weeks and that should suffice.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#74 - 2012-08-27 16:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghost of Truth
War Kitten wrote:
Case A: User tries EVE, gets hooked within days, upgrades account to get his first industrial long before 14 days is up.

Case B: User tries EVE, can't figure out how to find a guild within ten minutes, undocks his ibis, loots the first can he sees, dies, never logs back in.

Case C: Enterprising alt recycler calculates that 14 and 21 days aren't quite long enough for the purpose he desires in training and starts a thread to campaign for longer free trials in the forums.


Case A and B are the most typical. Case B occasionally results in a thread 2 years later whereby the user claims he played long ago but the game has changed so much now and can he please has some free isk?

I suspect this thread is Case C.


I have 2 alts all in one account.Tried buying a mining alt, got bored and gave it back. That is my full alt story.
But more in point, HOW someone is an Alt recycler?How?I am not sarcastic I honestly cant understand it.Even botters would prefer paying accounts because with the tremendous difference in yield compared mining frigate alts they can simply pay the bots wth plexes (aka free) and still have tons more of income than using trials.
I think you created Case C so you could find something to say.
Ghost of Truth
Mad Dawg Industries
#75 - 2012-08-27 16:13:39 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:

So what you are basically saying is that 14 days to experience all the sides of EVE is good and they should be happy with that but giving them more months will overload them?


Nothing of the sort, that's what you're saying, What I'm saying is that new players don't need to experience every facet of the game. You seem to believe that they do and I know that's incorrect. They need to experience enough to get an idea if they like it or not and that does not mean having to see every facet of the game first hand straight away.

Part of the fun of EvE is being able to experience different parts of the game at your own pace, giving them a month and fast tracking them through everything is probably worse than what they get now, pure overload.

What new players actually need isn't what you propose, they don't need a month or more, what they really need is more guidance and advice for the short time they do have on trial. That's what I've been doing with a small group of new players and they're benefitting greatly from it. They could have had 3 months trial and still not gained as much benefit as they did from the first week or two of getting advice and guidance from myself and the other experienced players in my alliance.

Your proposed solution will not help in the long run.


Your proposal and mine are compatible.Why not both?


If you feel that you weren't able to experience everything you wanted to in the 14 day trial, either ask someone for a 21 day trial or just start a new 14 day trial. Extending the free trial could and probably would be abused by existing players for a number of purposes. CCP have probably done a decent amount of research into how long they should set the length of the trial for and have settled on 14 or 21 days for good reasons to prevent giving too many benefits to existing players when creating new accounts.

Focus on giving the new players more help and advice during those first 2 or 3 weeks and that should suffice.


New people don't love EVE.They don't hate Eve also. They have no feeling whatsoever because they don't know what EVE is about.They are not going to reroll trials because they have no idea what they are losing out. Because in 14 days they think EVE is only the starting regions and high sec.IS Eve just that?.Does these areas have anything to make someone reroll a trial?No?Also what you are saying is what I am suggesting,but you just want the skills to go back to zero every 14 days and the new customer to to go through all the tedious reroll process.Why? Because botting mining frigates with Civ Mining modules will bring down the economy?Really?
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#76 - 2012-08-27 16:24:47 UTC
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:

So what you are basically saying is that 14 days to experience all the sides of EVE is good and they should be happy with that but giving them more months will overload them?


Nothing of the sort, that's what you're saying, What I'm saying is that new players don't need to experience every facet of the game. You seem to believe that they do and I know that's incorrect. They need to experience enough to get an idea if they like it or not and that does not mean having to see every facet of the game first hand straight away.

Part of the fun of EvE is being able to experience different parts of the game at your own pace, giving them a month and fast tracking them through everything is probably worse than what they get now, pure overload.

What new players actually need isn't what you propose, they don't need a month or more, what they really need is more guidance and advice for the short time they do have on trial. That's what I've been doing with a small group of new players and they're benefitting greatly from it. They could have had 3 months trial and still not gained as much benefit as they did from the first week or two of getting advice and guidance from myself and the other experienced players in my alliance.

Your proposed solution will not help in the long run.


Your proposal and mine are compatible.Why not both?


If you feel that you weren't able to experience everything you wanted to in the 14 day trial, either ask someone for a 21 day trial or just start a new 14 day trial. Extending the free trial could and probably would be abused by existing players for a number of purposes. CCP have probably done a decent amount of research into how long they should set the length of the trial for and have settled on 14 or 21 days for good reasons to prevent giving too many benefits to existing players when creating new accounts.

Focus on giving the new players more help and advice during those first 2 or 3 weeks and that should suffice.


New people don't love EVE.They don't hate Eve also. They have no feeling whatsoever because they don't know what EVE is about.They are not going to reroll trials because they have no idea what they are losing out. Because in 14 days they think EVE is only the starting regions and high sec.IS Eve just that?.Does these areas have anything to make someone reroll a trial?No?Also what you are saying is what I am suggesting,but you just want the skills to go back to zero every 14 days and the new customer to to go through all the tedious reroll process.Why? Because botting mining frigates with Civ Mining modules will bring down the economy?Really?


Again you're putting words in my mouth, I didn't say anything of the sort, so quit doing that if you don't mind. What I'm saying is that not everybody is always able to play the trial, perhaps some RL issue comes up that prevents them and it expires before they feel they've had a real chance to have a go at experiencing the game, in that case it's a simple job of starting another trial.

I'll state it again, the trials do not need extending any more than they currently are, it's the model that CCP have chosen. What new players would benefit most from are experienced players offering sound advice and pointing those new players in the right direction to help them find the information they need.


Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-08-27 16:26:36 UTC
If EVE was to go unlimited trial CCP would be forced to disable multiboxing for free accounts. Not doing so would spell doom and disaster for the EVE market. Doom and disaster I say!

As for other side-effects (apart from opening the floodgates to internet and all scum connected to it) I can't really come up with any right off my head. Advanced skills are locked from trialists anyway and it's a simple matter of blocking skills and everything associated to them if these skills are learned and paid time runs out. Further restrictions could always be set.
The only real key feature is as I mentioned before - preventing multiboxing for these freebie accounts at all costs. Apart from that, this would undeniably increase player numbers (paying subscriptions) as it would give people all the time in the world to figure out EVE at their own pace.

Questions remain however whether EVE would benefit or not from the huge surge of players that would arrive, both gameplay and performance-wise.

And think of the most scary scenario of them all: goonswarm will have a chance of becoming our overlords with all them new recruits at their disposal.

In any case I am merely curious about whether this would work, as long as the appropriate steps are taken so that the game doesn't crash and burn. More people playing is always a big + as long as it doesn't go overboard. Regardless, my own account would still stay as a paid one....no way I'd gimp myself.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#78 - 2012-08-27 16:26:58 UTC
Ghost of Truth wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
My trial lasted 7 days, came with next to no turtorial, 5000 isk, attribute point seemingly only in charisma and far less skillpoints.

Suck it up wimp.

So what is your point?That your are awesome?Special? OK you are.What about the less awesome than you?



His point is: Eve is a hard game.


If you want a game that is easy to learn, and holds your hand. Play something else.

FC, what do?
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-08-27 16:30:20 UTC
highonpop wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
My trial lasted 7 days, came with next to no turtorial, 5000 isk, attribute point seemingly only in charisma and far less skillpoints.

Suck it up wimp.

So what is your point?That your are awesome?Special? OK you are.What about the less awesome than you?



His point is: Eve is a hard game.


If you want a game that is easy to learn, and holds your hand. Play something else.


See, this is what I don't understand. Yes, EVE is a hard game to learn and play. Yes, it should stay that way obviously.

But why the hell are you actively discouraging people from playing it?
Elvis Fett
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2012-08-27 16:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Elvis Fett
If we are only looking at new people, the OPs suggestion of unlimited free trials is not a bad one. We would probably see an increase in subs, as well as a large increase of cannon fodder flying around. There are enough restrictions on trial accounts that people interested in EVE will still sub. It definitely doesn't make the game F2P.

Really the problem with unlimited trials lies within the current EVE players, they would abuse the hell out of it. That is why there will never be unlimited free trials in EVE. Bunches of people will use these trial accounts as scouts. Plenty of people multi-box using multiple boxes, as opposed to one PC with multiple monitors. You would also have vets using trial accounts to bake characters. Unlimited trials would just not work in EVE.


Gillia Winddancer wrote:
If EVE was to go unlimited trial CCP would be forced to disable multiboxing for free accounts. Not doing so would spell doom and disaster for the EVE market. Doom and disaster I say!

This is already in place, if you are logged on with a trial account that is the only account that can be logged on on that computer. But if you have multiple computers (like a PC and a laptop which I am sure many people have), well then it's real easy to get around that. There would be no way to stop multiboxing from multiple computers.