Science & Industry

I got the idea for this question from the "tanky hauler" thread earlier - interesting discussion there but that seems geared for higher-SP types....

As new players, we constantly hear chatter about getting ganked, either for tears or for ganker profit. I'm guessing that the only thing to be done about the griefer types is to stay aware and maintain insurance. However, there's clearly a profit motive for the other type.

So, what methods do experienced traders recommend for avoiding profit-based ganks? Basic assumptions would be low-SP pilots, flying basic industrial hauler ships, and moving cargo to/from trade hubs.

Do you use specific rules like:
-never carry any cargo worth more than ??? ISK
-always use WCS over expanded cargoholds
-ensure you have ??? amount of EHP (my current method - mount most/biggest shield extenders I can afford)
-just use cheap haulers and factor losses into cost of doing business

If this question has been asked multiple times and somebody has a good link with some recommendations, I'm sure young traders would appreciate it....

Blockade runner

I meant it as a counter to the quoted statement. A properly flown blockade runner is virtually uncatchable in high or low sec.

When I started an alt account it was the first ship my alt trained for.

The problem with this is that, unless you're in something expensive to gank like a Freighter, there are still people who will roll the dice, hoping for the double-wrapper to be worth something.

Best option: Courier Contract to someone else, and let them take the risk.
Second best: Orca + Corp Hangar
Third best: Ship it in small enough loads that you're not worth ganking.
Fourth Best: Double Wrap it (biggest reason it works in freighters is the prevalence of RF/Push etc pilots using contract handling alts, so tons of chaff)
Fifth Best (and, judging by the kbs, a very popular option): Cross your fingers?

Anyway, if it's a small cargo, a Covops or a Recon (Recons can put up great shield tanks) can be great.

I recently hauled over a billion ISK in a rookie ship, from Amarr to Jita.

I knew it was stupid, but I also knew that unless there was an fast locker at a gate, I was unlikely to be caught, so I knowingly took the risk. [EDIT: I also didn't warp directly to Jita 4-4, as I didn't want to be at one of the standard warp-ins, so I instead warped from another moon / planet.]

Yesterday, I hauled about 750 modules worth under 2 billion, and which occupied very little space in a Charon freighter. I did the trip AFK on autopilot. I used the freighter for the 28 or so jumps, because I knew it would be on autopilot.

I basically just ask myself, "Would I gank me?", and if the answer is "yes", then I take steps to counter it.

The one additional question to ask is.... How would I go about ganking myself...

Lets take, Jita 0.9 security system and a Perfect Charon Pilot, with all applicable implants, EHP should be about 200K EHP.

To Gank 200K EHP you would need, to apply roughly 200K damage (your more then welcome to break your head doing exact math for us if you want to troll me, please)

Curently, the favorite method for .7 systems and higher security is, Tornado (fully fitted roughly 80-100M isk) with a volley of about 14K per ship.

and .06-.07 security, Talos, roughly 80-110M fully fitted, with a pretty nasty point blank DPS of about 1500, or roughly 10-20 seconds times 1500 DPS for 15K-30K damage before concord wacks ya!

So, 200/14= 13-15 Nado's (estimated total cost to fund these ships = 1.3B isk
200/22.5 = bout 7-10 Talos's estimated cost to fund these ships bout 800M ISK

Now, generally a freighter, should yield about zero to 150M isk in Salvage with perfect skills so, we have 75M expected Salvage just from the dead Hull.

Each T3 BC yields about 50% fitting drops and about 10M isk salvage, so we have about 12.5M isk in Drops and 10M isk in Salvage from the dead Battlecruiser.

In short:

14 Nado's salvaged and looted = 315M isk plus 75M from charon hull for 390M isk total recovered from a 1.3B investment ganking an empty hull.

8 Talos bout 280M recovered from 800M investment

So, total cost to Gank a freighter in Nado's = 910M isk loss
Talos 520M isk Loss (EDIT)- 75M isk = 445M isk Loss


Now that we got that outa the way, lets move onto Where to set limits on freight in Hold.
We all know, loot and cargo drops about 50% of the time and 50% is destroyed, so we simply multiply 910M isk times 2 for .7-1.0 system hauling or 520M isk times 2 for .05 - .6 system hauling.

In short:
In a Charon, you can carry 1.8B isk in goods in hold in .7-1.0 systems and (EDITED)~800M isk in goods for .5 -.6 systems Safelly.


If you understood all of that, then you can easily aply the math to other ships EHP etc, just incase if my math isnt Perfect.

I used to make good isk doing courier runs, and I used the following general guidelines to do it safely:

* Any ship can be ganked - so the only real defense is to deter the other side from trying
* Use the right ship for the job!!!! The biggest mistake most newbies make is using their iteron or other basic industrial for everything.....
* In general, if I'm going into wormhole space or lowsec -- the only somewhat acceptable ship is the viator for hauling, and even then you have to be careful.
* For tiny amounts of cargo, there isn't any reason to not use a cruiser or BC (especially cargo focused ones)... most gankers pay less attention to low-end mission ships for ganking although if you come in with a faction fit high end mission ship, you may get a lookie.
* Balance the fit of your haulers....don't just automatically put cargo expanders and cargo rigs on, find the weak spots in the EHP for the ship...add a shield anti-em rig for some, hull or armor strengtheners for others, usually reserve 1-2 mid spots for additional tanking
* Know what the generally accepted max values for each ship type....basic industrials generally shouldn't carry more than 100M, advanced industrials probably not more than 250M, and freighters not more than 1B, I'm not sure what the generally recommended limit of the orca is.
* Avoid autopilot when you can, might be OK sometimes in 0.6 or higher systems, never in 0.5 -- autopilot is just waving a "gank me" sign on yourself.
* Identify the 0.5 systems that you can avoid and which you can't, know that most of the unavoidable ones are camped and you'll be cargo scanned going through them
* Your safe in warp...so if possible, work on increasing your agility and getting to warp faster.
* Train up all your sheild/armor tanking and navigation skills
* On some ships, it might also be worth having warp stabilizers on...but usually its better to fit for tank, speed, or cargo mods

I'm not sure what people consider "low skill" but none of the industrial haulers are terribly high sp ships. Granted there are plenty of support skills that make every ship truly shine. But you can go from zero to acceptable blockade runner in 37 days. And from zero to freighter in about 34 days. Given that both are on the same path you can get both in under 2 months.

This is being able to fully fit and rig a viator with covert cloak and mods worthy of high or low sec.

Gallente freighter 3 and evasive maneuvering 4. It won't have the max cargo or the fastest align. But it works. You would likely be able to fly it before you can afford it.

Orca is a different story. But totally worth it.

How does one determine where these ganks are taking place?