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My first attempt at The Maze: Seeking advice for next time (Long question)
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TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-08-28 08:30:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
I find the easiest way is this :

1 char in a heavy missiled Tengu no booster just pure resists.

1 char in a Drone sub-system Proteus with 3 large shield transfers.

Warp Tengu in first and get aggro..

Warp Proteus in, lock Tengu stagger your 3 reps.

With this setup your Tengu has something like 3-4k DPS tank and you wont ever see your shields drop.....ever

The Proteus gives you another 400 or so DPS with 3 sentries which you just assign to the tengu and hammer away.

Piece of cake.


Not terrible I guess, but seems like more managing ships and reps than I care for. i'm lazy and try to balance speed with ease of use.


Not at all, once the proteus is in the site and repping the tengu and drones are assigned. Which takes 10 seconds you flip back to the Tengu and you never need to look at the Proteus screen again.

10 seconds is a small price to pay against the loss of any ship.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#22 - 2012-08-28 12:45:00 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
I find the easiest way is this :

1 char in a heavy missiled Tengu no booster just pure resists.

1 char in a Drone sub-system Proteus with 3 large shield transfers.

Warp Tengu in first and get aggro..

Warp Proteus in, lock Tengu stagger your 3 reps.

With this setup your Tengu has something like 3-4k DPS tank and you wont ever see your shields drop.....ever

The Proteus gives you another 400 or so DPS with 3 sentries which you just assign to the tengu and hammer away.

Piece of cake.


Not terrible I guess, but seems like more managing ships and reps than I care for. i'm lazy and try to balance speed with ease of use.


Not at all, once the proteus is in the site and repping the tengu and drones are assigned. Which takes 10 seconds you flip back to the Tengu and you never need to look at the Proteus screen again.

10 seconds is a small price to pay against the loss of any ship.


Then why the part about "staggering your reps"? in your 1st post.

And what do you do about aggro on either the Proteus or the sentry drones in the last room? That station spawns some nasty dps once you get it into armor and hull.

And what happens to the passive tank tengu if it's scrammed but the proteus character disconnects (I've personally had 2 client running and had one disconnect) and you have trouble logging back in?

I never have to worry about such things at all, because my tank tengu is a 100% self contained unit not dependent on another ship for it's survival and the mach never took any aggro due to the cloak. The way I do it now with the tank tengu and dps tengu, it's even faster and safer than using the mach.

To each his own I guess, I just don't like to take chances with money maker ships
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#23 - 2012-08-28 12:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:

Do I swap to armor tankers … T3s or HACs or BSs? I’ve only been null-ratting a few days now, long enough to get a couple of decent escalations, but I do like using T3s because I can travel fit them (covops, nulli, and stabs) and move to the escalation sites relatively easily. My first one (shipyard thing with a 22 tier effects and Pithi-A drop) was twelve jumps away in warzone hostile space.



Jenn aSide wrote:

I was probably headed to a snarky "gee, i dunno, why would someone desire a nullifier set up in NULL SEC when you have to go through gates to get to the Maze in the 1st place :) , but your way is better lol.



The confusion was that this had already been mentioned in the OP, like kinda a given. So I was wondering why someone would be mentioning such a no-brainer again, and then alluding to snarky responses when others wonder about it.
The OP was about running the Maze site, not about traveling safely thru dangerous space - that's easy enough.
Anyways I guess ppl don't tend to read OPs and target their comments off on what they wanna talk about anyways. Oh well, i can lives with that :-)


I was responding specifically to
Quote:
There doesn't seem to be a lot of point having that tengu covops, or nullified, in that setup but i guess if you also using another tengu as your DPS ship then their may be some benefit in having it able to cloak when new waves spawn ... I suppose. Like you I can't see much benefit in nullifying it ... altho when I am travelling to the escalation system all my tengu are covops and nullified.


The point of the "snarky" response is that the "reason" for doing it that way (cloaky, nullified, with probes ect) should have been really , really obvious, especially for plexes that end up in hostile space, but i consider all of null sec hostile space to begin with.

Do your mazes however you like, I've simply offered my experience to people who are obviously having trouble figuring it out for themselves like I did. Oh damn, that was snarky to wasn't it? Cool
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-08-28 14:14:45 UTC
Your correct, Its each to their own but I think my way is far cheaper. There's no need for deadspace boost amps/boosters, That's gonna save you 600 million for a decent boost amp and booster alone.

I'm in no way criticizing your way, I mean....if it works then it works.

The point of warping the Tengu first is to get all aggro, for the Proteus to be left alone. The only things that have ever targeted the Proteus for me personally, is sentry towers which die in 2 volleys and do horrible damage anyway.
Gary Bell
Therapy.
The Initiative.
#25 - 2012-08-28 14:21:50 UTC
I personally dont like the tengu for it.. I may very well be able to tank it but one wrong move and you pop... and I still dont see it having the buffer to take the hit in the last room without spending like 6 bil on it.. For those who have never done it b4 I would suggest a proteus even a cheap faction tank can hold up to all of it with a tengu of faction bs for dps..
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-08-28 17:58:10 UTC
My personal ship has 3 shield extending rigs and resists are all 90 and above for the specific damage type. The final room torp hits for about 1/4 shields stood still. It's then repped in under 5 seconds.

I don't grasp the 1 wrong move and you pop. You are way wrong as I'm stood still all the time, never moving so everything is hitting me and the rep power of 3 large shield transporters on 90% resists is really crazy.

Example is I've just done EFT and my Tengu can tank the Maze with 4357 DPS tank without anything overloaded. Overloaded it goes above 6000.

With the correct setups 10/10s are like doing lvl1 missions.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#27 - 2012-08-28 18:32:08 UTC
Gary Bell wrote:
I personally dont like the tengu for it.. I may very well be able to tank it but one wrong move and you pop... and I still dont see it having the buffer to take the hit in the last room without spending like 6 bil on it.. For those who have never done it b4 I would suggest a proteus even a cheap faction tank can hold up to all of it with a tengu of faction bs for dps..


My tengu can sit still and tank the last room (I orbit the beacon out of habit), never going below 96% shield, and it doesn't cost 6 bil, it cost 2 bil, the most expensive thing on it being the Gist-C type XL shield booster and the Dg Invul.

Again, the tengu you say went pop in a Maze must have been fit terribly wrong. If you go back and ask the pilot for the fit (or link the fit if it was your tengu), i guarantee I can show you what went wrong. I did Mazes, Fleet Staging points and everything else Guristas with that Tengu tanking for more than 6 months.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#28 - 2012-08-28 18:39:34 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Your correct, Its each to their own but I think my way is far cheaper. There's no need for deadspace boost amps/boosters, That's gonna save you 600 million for a decent boost amp and booster alone.


I don't worry about saving money when I make billions from null sec plex loot, I go for safety 1st, and nothing is safer than a ship that doesn't need help tanking.

Quote:

I'm in no way criticizing your way, I mean....if it works then it works.

The point of warping the Tengu first is to get all aggro, for the Proteus to be left alone. The only things that have ever targeted the Proteus for me personally, is sentry towers which die in 2 volleys and do horrible damage anyway.



I always get aggro on things other than the tank in the maze, which is why I took to cloaking the mach when I used it.

Like I said, if it works for you that's great, its not a set up I could recommend though.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2012-08-28 19:14:35 UTC
Thanks everyone.

Lots of great food for thought. Clearly my first-effort approach is not viable long term, so next one I get I will pick and choose from your suggestions and ... hopefully ... make a safer run of it.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-08-28 22:27:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Your correct, Its each to their own but I think my way is far cheaper. There's no need for deadspace boost amps/boosters, That's gonna save you 600 million for a decent boost amp and booster alone.


I don't worry about saving money when I make billions from null sec plex loot, I go for safety 1st, and nothing is safer than a ship that doesn't need help tanking.


I think you'll find remote reps always work better and tank alot more than local reps ever could aside from triage.

I also do plexs, every day... but you don't always get the great drops. In fact getting the faction BS BPC is a very low chance. The B type stuff is not too bad at dropping but the X type stuff is also rare.

You do make billions, but not billions per week.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2012-08-29 00:55:34 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
In fact getting the faction BS BPC is a very low chance. The B type stuff is not too bad at dropping but the X type stuff is also rare.


So, I was very lucky getting the 'snake BP plus three x-type modules? Sounds like I might be disappointed on the next one :-(

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#32 - 2012-08-29 13:40:24 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Your correct, Its each to their own but I think my way is far cheaper. There's no need for deadspace boost amps/boosters, That's gonna save you 600 million for a decent boost amp and booster alone.


I don't worry about saving money when I make billions from null sec plex loot, I go for safety 1st, and nothing is safer than a ship that doesn't need help tanking.


I think you'll find remote reps always work better and tank alot more than local reps ever could aside from triage.

I also do plexs, every day... but you don't always get the great drops. In fact getting the faction BS BPC is a very low chance. The B type stuff is not too bad at dropping but the X type stuff is also rare.

You do make billions, but not billions per week.


You must have enraged the RNG Gods or something. This last week I've had 4 6/10 escalations from Guristas Hidden Rally Point, 3 of which drop ok ish stuff, one of which drop that lovely pithum-a type invul. Tha'ts not including the stuff I've scanned down, I've even taken to doing radars and mags because while you don't get anything super sexy, it's steady income.

It is completely random in the plexes, but I haven't made less than a couple bil a week in months save the time i didn't play for a week because of vacation lol. I just bought my 2nd jump freighter purely from exploration/anom isk, I'm taking a break from that and doing some lvl 5s in lowsec this week.

The point is, I don't personally see a reason to not pimp my exploration ships, you don't HAVE to, but i find it's overall safer for when things go wrong.

I screwed up one last week and got caught on a gate while ninja plexing in Tenal, my tank tengu was webbed to hell trying to get to the gate, and 2 drakes, a Talos, a rapier and 2 daredevils could'mt kill me in all the time it took me to inch back to the gate LOL. A single curse or neuting hurricane would have ruined my day though....
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#33 - 2012-08-29 13:44:20 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
In fact getting the faction BS BPC is a very low chance. The B type stuff is not too bad at dropping but the X type stuff is also rare.


So, I was very lucky getting the 'snake BP plus three x-type modules? Sounds like I might be disappointed on the next one :-(


You WILL frequently be disappointed lol. Can't count the times I killed the station in the maze, ran to the can to only find that damn overseer's box. something better than nothing I guess, but meh.

Then we you get ready to say screw it, you'll get a drop like I did 3 weeks ago, XL booster, large booster, 'Snake BPC, overseers effects and X type shield boost amp. almost 2.5 bil in loot....

CCP knows how to get you hooked on something lol.
Gary Bell
Therapy.
The Initiative.
#34 - 2012-08-31 13:23:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
In fact getting the faction BS BPC is a very low chance. The B type stuff is not too bad at dropping but the X type stuff is also rare.


So, I was very lucky getting the 'snake BP plus three x-type modules? Sounds like I might be disappointed on the next one :-(


You WILL frequently be disappointed lol. Can't count the times I killed the station in the maze, ran to the can to only find that damn overseer's box. something better than nothing I guess, but meh.

Then we you get ready to say screw it, you'll get a drop like I did 3 weeks ago, XL booster, large booster, 'Snake BPC, overseers effects and X type shield boost amp. almost 2.5 bil in loot....

CCP knows how to get you hooked on something lol.



I know thats right... I think the very best drop i have seen was a snake bpc, an xl xtype booster, xtype boost amp, x type em hardner, x type therm, and overseer.. i literally got up and did a little dance.. lol
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#35 - 2012-08-31 14:55:46 UTC
Yea you're lucky with the drop.

The maze can be solo'd in a single tengu, not very difficult. This is the fit I used (note that I was using a set of HG crystals. If you don't want to buy a set, just swap the fit to a 5 launcher tengu with an extra mid and run more tank).

[Tengu, The Maze Solo]
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

+HG Crystal set

Carry a blue pill obviously but I never had to use it. You have to overload your em hardeners in the last room, but you can stop once you kill the frigs (and generally I turn off 1 after I'm moving at full speed since the fit is just barely not cap stable). Load faction ammo, kill web towers and frigs first, pretty easy.

It's not really an optimal fit, it's just a fit that I jerry-rigged together from my mission running fit (hence the rigors), but they do help vs the frigs a lot. Frankly this plex isn't a huge deal. I usually run it with this tengu + another tengu for extra deeps since this fit will kill the end tower, but it will take a while since the passive recharge of the shield on the station is like 400-500dps and this fit does like 650dps.

Use at your own risk though, this is like the ABSOLUTE BOTTOM end of how much tank you can have without dying in a fire--like I said, overloading is nessecary in the last room.
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