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How to blow up a sun?

Author
Olodn
Infinite Duress
#41 - 2012-09-08 00:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Olodn
Anslo wrote:
With the current technology available in the cluster, would it be possible to, say, warp a freighter full on anti-matter in containment into a sun's core and let said freighter blow up, in turn causing the sun to react rather....violently?

I've seen it as a recurring theme in a few sci-fi novels I've read (Jack McDevitt and Alastair Reynolds) and was wondering if, lore wise, this would be a possibility?..


I guess the best thing would be to ask a physicist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKN4S38uKQY

I guess some of the planetbusting ideas could be used for stars.
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#42 - 2012-09-09 19:22:50 UTC
Saxifrage Bizzaroclan wrote:
So, the Charon full of iron anti-matter would indeed end the star's life (assuming our sun, not some barely-there red giant) - seems like it would knock away enough matter to bring the star below the critical mass threshold for gravity-inspired fusion. The matter may all acrete back towards the sun eventually, but that'll take a looong time. Not a supernova, but certainly a dead sun . . . right?


You could do it with regular iron (if you just want to kill the star) but you'll need much, much more than a Charon full.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#43 - 2012-09-12 13:21:20 UTC
So, maybe this is being looked at the wrong way.

What if you took a large massed ship, like a battleship, in warp, warped towards the sun, and then turned off the warp bubble generator while the ship was still going at 3 AU per second, dumping the ship back into normal space at hypervelocity. Would that create a black hole, convert into ultra hard radiation, turn the mass of the ship and anything in front of that mass into a relativistic smear?
Anslo
Scope Works
#44 - 2012-09-12 13:25:26 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
So, maybe this is being looked at the wrong way.

What if you took a large massed ship, like a battleship, in warp, warped towards the sun, and then turned off the warp bubble generator while the ship was still going at 3 AU per second, dumping the ship back into normal space at hypervelocity. Would that create a black hole, convert into ultra hard radiation, turn the mass of the ship and anything in front of that mass into a relativistic smear?


More ideas for the love of gods! Who needs titans when you have sun slayers :3

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#45 - 2012-09-12 14:03:09 UTC
Alright, more ideas:

Eve clearly has large scale antigravity technology, what if you strapped a giant antigravity generator to a ship, flew it into the sun, and turned it on, thus locally negating the effect of gravity on the stellar body? At the very least all the energy and matter contained within that nullified area would explode outwards, if the ship could survive getting far enough into the star, it could completely destabilize it. You could use a warp drive to get this into the centre of the star.

Could also use a ship with a warp drive that creates a very large warp field bubble to fly into the centre of the sun, and then warp off again, taking the core of the sun with them when they reactivate the warp bubble. Whole center mass of the sun collapses on that empty point, destroying the star.

Could also use the warp drive to deliver a large mass of a superheavy element, like plutonium, into the core of the star, destabilizing the fusion reaction (this might take a while)

Could also arrange antigravity field generators around an area above the surface of the star to create a giant stellar flamethrower aimed at whatever you wanted gone.

Could also use stargates with warp drives to systematically deconstruct a star for stellar engineering, by peeling away at it layer by layer.

This is just off the top of my head.
Xuse Senna
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#46 - 2012-09-12 17:36:41 UTC
Wow, Decent Read, Nothing to add tho.

Well.... maybe.... Call Mythbusters?

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7501/mindgamesceptionfinaldr.jpg

Anslo
Scope Works
#47 - 2012-09-12 17:40:16 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
Alright, more ideas:

Eve clearly has large scale antigravity technology, what if you strapped a giant antigravity generator to a ship, flew it into the sun, and turned it on, thus locally negating the effect of gravity on the stellar body? At the very least all the energy and matter contained within that nullified area would explode outwards, if the ship could survive getting far enough into the star, it could completely destabilize it. You could use a warp drive to get this into the centre of the star.

Could also use a ship with a warp drive that creates a very large warp field bubble to fly into the centre of the sun, and then warp off again, taking the core of the sun with them when they reactivate the warp bubble. Whole center mass of the sun collapses on that empty point, destroying the star.

Could also use the warp drive to deliver a large mass of a superheavy element, like plutonium, into the core of the star, destabilizing the fusion reaction (this might take a while)

Could also arrange antigravity field generators around an area above the surface of the star to create a giant stellar flamethrower aimed at whatever you wanted gone.

Could also use stargates with warp drives to systematically deconstruct a star for stellar engineering, by peeling away at it layer by layer.

This is just off the top of my head.


I love you. Shocked

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Smiknight
Smiknight Corporation
#48 - 2012-09-18 00:34:40 UTC
Lots of iron. Depending on mass, it may not blow up, but it will be a big problem.
A reward devoid of risk is no reward at all, but is instead a handout.
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#49 - 2012-09-27 09:39:48 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
So, maybe this is being looked at the wrong way.

What if you took a large massed ship, like a battleship, in warp, warped towards the sun, and then turned off the warp bubble generator while the ship was still going at 3 AU per second, dumping the ship back into normal space at hypervelocity. Would that create a black hole, convert into ultra hard radiation, turn the mass of the ship and anything in front of that mass into a relativistic smear?

That wouldn't fly, turning off warp would instantly drop the speed. Theoretically, the ships are moving at very slow (non-relativistic) ship speeds inside the bubble. The only reason warp seems fast is because the space the ship's moving through is warped. If the space wasn't warped, the ship would just be moving normally. Theoretically anyway...



Now if you want a low cost way to destroy a star, you have to learn from the real deal and use the star against itself. There are layers inside a star which are opaque and trap energy, if you can introduce elements to change the opacity of various layers you have a real shot at causing a change in the star's internal equilibrium using only a fraction of the stars mass in materials. If done rapidly enough and in the right places, this change could lead to a collapse and subsequent explosion (leaving behind either a neutron star or a black hole depending on the force of the collapse). In the very massive stars, if you can somehow trap enough energy in the core all at once, the opposite effect could occur, and the star could rapidly expand, resulting in an explosion that leaves no remnant.

Suffice it to say, the engineering involved in figuring out where, when, and how to affect opacity would be crazy hard since the inner layers are basically unobservable (especially after you've made them opaque). Complicating matters further is the fact that success in this endeavor would place you dangerously close to a supernova, wildly increasing your chances of imminent death, since by the time you can see it's exploding, you've already been exposed to way too much radiation. Who knows? Maybe there have been lots of successful attempts in the past... just with no survivors.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#50 - 2012-09-30 05:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
I'm not sure anti-matter is the answer, and there are simpler solutions. It is quite possible to disrupt or change the lifespan of a Sun. It would require a very great deal of matter though.

Anti-matter won't have the effect you think. That is, it won't cause the Sun to 'Blow up'. Rather, the anti-matter will change both Helium and Hydrogen in differing proportions as it comes into contact with them. I won't pretend to know what that change will be, but suffice to say, the result will be the Sun density decreasing proportionally with respect to those elements.

This basically means that, while the Sun may increase in overall density, it will simply lose some of both of the particular elements that make up the majority of it's outer mass. Helium on the Sun is simply the product of fusion and is responsible for the expansion of the Sun and cooling of its mass as it increases in proportion to the quantity of Hydrogen and other elements. Hydrogen is the element that, through Fusion, creates the energy that makes the Sun what it is while itself becoming Helium in the process.

So less of both equals what exactly? A Smaller Sun with less potential for fusion and greater density, all dependent on the proportions of each that were removed, and what the product of that removal was. There will always be a product, even of Anti-matter and matter. It's also feasible to speculate that there are as many varieties of anti-matter as matter.

Of course, anti-matter is only a hypothetical possibility anyway, and what scientists think may be anti-matter, may in fact be something else.

Edit: honestly, I don't believe in anti-matter; the whole idea is absurd. Matter is what it is; it's either one type or another, but it is still matter. Electrons and Protons are different yes, and opposing, yes, but does that mean one is anti- to the other. Of course not, they work in conjunction and do so quite effectively, such that the entire Universe relies on their function and existence.

If you wanted to find a hypothetical case for this scenario, take the Neutron, Electron, and Proton and compare them to Dark Matter, Anti-matter, and Matter respectively. Their function in relation to each other is likely to be essentially the same, except on a different scale and in another environment.

What Environment? The galaxy would be a good start, with Dark Matter at it's core and Anti-matter and matter encircling it and reaching out to the expanse of its envelope. Anti-matter could of course move between galactic environments freely, as electrons do in atomic environments, provided suitable conditions are met.

Really, who's to say, but it's more likely than some 'anti' matter.
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neo smith
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-10-01 20:56:23 UTC
interesting read

what did sam carter and daniel jackson use to destroy a star

cannot remember of my head but i'm sure they did
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#52 - 2012-10-01 21:58:12 UTC
They opened a wormhole to a black hole and threw it into the sun. The black hole's gravity and time dilation held the gate open longer than normal and also sucked plasma through the opening and out of the sun. After enough matter was removed, the star's internal equilibrium between energy production (that pushes it out) and gravitation (that pulls it in) was disrupted to the point that the star built up an internal velocity inward. The result is typically an implosion shockwave and subsequent explosion of most of the star's outer layers as the shockwave rebounds. There would likely have been some kind of stellar remnant left behind, either a neutron star or a black hole (possibly even a still burning sun depending on the dynamics of the explosion). There's a few other ways a star could die, and they mostly depend on mass and composition.
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-10-03 02:50:24 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Of course, anti-matter is only a hypothetical possibility anyway, and what scientists think may be anti-matter, may in fact be something else.

Edit: honestly, I don't believe in anti-matter; the whole idea is absurd. Matter is what it is; it's either one type or another, but it is still matter. Electrons and Protons are different yes, and opposing, yes, but does that mean one is anti- to the other. Of course not, they work in conjunction and do so quite effectively, such that the entire Universe relies on their function and existence.

Antimatter has been detected (and even synthesized) deliberately and repeatedly here on Earth, bro. It's not magical or hypothetical.

Mars Theran wrote:
If you wanted to find a hypothetical case for this scenario, take the Neutron, Electron, and Proton and compare them to Dark Matter, Anti-matter, and Matter respectively. Their function in relation to each other is likely to be essentially the same, except on a different scale and in another environment.

Ahahahaha, this is amazing. You know nothing about physics. In fact, you might actually have negative physics knowledge. Anti-physics--I'm impressed.

PS: Dumping iron into a star isn't going to kill it, dudes. Fusion of iron is endothermic, but it won't occur under conditions present in the core of a main sequence star and iron isn't a fusion inhibitor in any meaningful sense. Resolving to dump a large quantity of iron into a star will result in a few happy miners and little else. The iron-56 nucleus is simply the most stable and as a result fusion of lighter elements is exothermic while fusion of heavier elements is endothermic.

Besides, it's a stretch to even think that such a quantity of antimatter is available in EVE. A much more likely interpretation of the various "antimatter" weapons and reactors is that they refer to antimatter-catalyzed fusion and require only trifling amounts of antimatter themselves. Destroying a star is senseless anyway--it'd be many orders of magnitude cheaper to destroy its planets, and many more orders of magnitude cheaper than that to just sterilize those planets one way or another.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-10-11 14:20:59 UTC
I am a scientist. AFIK, the EVE universe doesn't have the kind of technology that you would need to get a large quantity of antiparticles close enough to most stars to explode it. Other people have suggested conventional weapons or matter like iron. Beyond the fact that at least our sun has a crust of iron on its surface, conventional matter in nearly any quantity would be instantly converted into plasma once in contact with a star's photosphere. Laser weapons of any size so far as discussed in EVE would have no effect; their energy would simply be absorbed and reemitted as undetectable fluorescence or a sunquake. Maybe you'd get a solar flare or something.
Perhaps with very advanced shields, you could get a ship close to something like a brown dwarf or a very old red supergiant, but the quantity of antimatter required to do any appreciable damage to such a star would be enormous.
Unstable celestial bodies like neutron stars or magnetars might be one idea, but these entities have tremendous electromagnetic and gravitic fields that would definitely bend the physics assumed behind any type of weapon discussed in EVE.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-10-11 14:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gussarde en Welle
Faulx wrote:
Saede Riordan wrote:
So, maybe this is being looked at the wrong way.

What if you took a large massed ship, like a battleship, in warp, warped towards the sun, and then turned off the warp bubble generator while the ship was still going at 3 AU per second, dumping the ship back into normal space at hypervelocity. Would that create a black hole, convert into ultra hard radiation, turn the mass of the ship and anything in front of that mass into a relativistic smear?

That wouldn't fly, turning off warp would instantly drop the speed. Theoretically, the ships are moving at very slow (non-relativistic) ship speeds inside the bubble. The only reason warp seems fast is because the space the ship's moving through is warped. If the space wasn't warped, the ship would just be moving normally. Theoretically anyway...



Now if you want a low cost way to destroy a star, you have to learn from the real deal and use the star against itself. There are layers inside a star which are opaque and trap energy, if you can introduce elements to change the opacity of various layers you have a real shot at causing a change in the star's internal equilibrium using only a fraction of the stars mass in materials. If done rapidly enough and in the right places, this change could lead to a collapse and subsequent explosion (leaving behind either a neutron star or a black hole depending on the force of the collapse). In the very massive stars, if you can somehow trap enough energy in the core all at once, the opposite effect could occur, and the star could rapidly expand, resulting in an explosion that leaves no remnant.

Suffice it to say, the engineering involved in figuring out where, when, and how to affect opacity would be crazy hard since the inner layers are basically unobservable (especially after you've made them opaque). Complicating matters further is the fact that success in this endeavor would place you dangerously close to a supernova, wildly increasing your chances of imminent death, since by the time you can see it's exploding, you've already been exposed to way too much radiation. Who knows? Maybe there have been lots of successful attempts in the past... just with no survivors.



Yeah - Here's an impossible idea with the same level of inspiration. Wormhole-gate one white dwarf within 30 km of another white dwarf. The two will collide. If their combined mass exceeds the Chandrasekhar limit - Type 1a supernova. Anything living within several hundred light years will be absolutely obliterated. How you managed to open the wormhole close enough to the missile star or made one big enough to fit it in is your problem. Maybe the Jove did it. Lol It would be an act of terrorism. The terrorists would not survive.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-10-11 15:56:56 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:

Edit: honestly, I don't believe in anti-matter; the whole idea is absurd.


The scientists that have produced antimatter in labs around the world would like to have a talk with you about your lack of physics knowledge.

Also, the anti-particle of an electron is a positron, not a proton. You can check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiparticle if you really care about the science.

If, as I suspect, you choose to remain clueless about the subject at hand, feel free to continue spouting nonsense while the rest of us point and laugh.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-10-11 23:41:28 UTC
I have another idea. Use a huge version of the "Blackstar" weapons the Reapers use in Mass Effect. Shoots a beam of black holes that destabilize matter spawning antiparticle interactions and nuclear decay on the spot! Build a huge one powered by another star, and shoot the beam through a wormhole aimed at the target star! After some time, you would dig through the outer layers and start matter annihilation in the center of the target. Eventually enough destabilization would occur and the star would collapse. Supernova!

Also: Stars are very, very dense and hard. Not burning balls of "gas." http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/
Staleward Ad'mraa
F-I-N-K PROPERTY
#58 - 2012-10-13 08:30:00 UTC
Ever thought of an alternative way of destroying a star. Ever heard of vampire stars? Just pull one near the star and it would cipher away all the fuel, leaving it to go super nova, destroying both stars.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2012-10-13 09:34:59 UTC
time and mass

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#60 - 2012-10-13 18:56:06 UTC
Build something that can interfere with the magnetic field and gravitational forces of a sun. I'm not astrophysicist but I think it would just melt like ice-cream sundae if you can somehow **** with it's rotation and/or slice a big enough hole in its magnetic field.