These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Fiction

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

How to blow up a sun?

Author
Anslo
Scope Works
#1 - 2012-08-21 19:52:01 UTC
With the current technology available in the cluster, would it be possible to, say, warp a freighter full on anti-matter in containment into a sun's core and let said freighter blow up, in turn causing the sun to react rather....violently?

I've seen it as a recurring theme in a few sci-fi novels I've read (Jack McDevitt and Alastair Reynolds) and was wondering if, lore wise, this would be a possibility?..

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2012-08-21 20:12:24 UTC
sure, go SD a freighter in a system's star and see what happens

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Anslo
Scope Works
#3 - 2012-08-21 20:15:29 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
sure, go SD a freighter in a system's star and see what happens


This is not an in-game function, I am aware of that. If you read what I said, I was speaking in terms of lore. If you think all my posts are shiptoasting, simply do not answer them.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#4 - 2012-08-21 21:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: David Forge
Note: I am neither a physicist nor a mathematician.

I threw together some rough numbers just for fun, taking into account the above disclaimer it's very possible I made a mistake or two. Anyone with any real knowledge on this sort thing feel free to correct and shame me.

Assume:

1 Charon with 785,000 m3 of cargo space filled with antimatter.

Now, antimatter could come in all types of densities depending on what you make it out of, this is practically back of the napkin so I just assumed one cubic meter would contain one ton of antimatter.

I used a calculator to do the antimatter reaction energy output as I do not trust myself to do it but at 785,000 tons of antimatter I got an explosive output of 30,646,400,000 megatons. Converting into joules (again, with a calculator made by someone smarter than I) I got 1.2822454 x 10^26 joules. Wikipedia says that the energy output of the sun (a smallish star) per second is 3.8 x 10^26. So we're looking at an explosion that (let's say happened in a single second which is unlikely but simplifies the problem) would increase the energy output of a star of the same size and type as ours by almost exactly 1/3 for one second. This effect diminishes quickly if the time for the explosion to occur increases. A ten second explosion would (I'm guessing) result in ten seconds where the energy output of the star was increased by only a little over 3%.

So, after this cursory examination, I would advise the OP to find a very small star or a very large number of freighters. Alternatively, figure out Sansha wormhole technology and open one directly into or through a star. That's bound to cause problems.
Bifordus Maximus
MissoCorp
#5 - 2012-08-22 01:21:08 UTC
Please not that I know very little about this subject.

I was thinking as to how large stars go supernova. What makes them explode is that after they run out of the light elements they start to fuse heavier elements like iron and that's what makes them collapse then explode almost immediately. Perhaps instead of antimatter it should be maybe a freighter or two full of Veldspar or Tritanium (iron?). I believe that such a sudden change in density of the core of the star would make it explode suddenly.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#6 - 2012-08-22 01:54:04 UTC
That's assuming that anything you send even MAKES IT to the surface of a star.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#7 - 2012-08-22 04:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Imagine if wormholes worked like Portal portals. Fire orange into center of sun, fire blue into space - differential pressure gradient causes the space portal to squirt out a beam of hyper-dense star guts at relativistic velocities, as the star with the orange portal in it begins to contract, crushing its insides out through the hole in its core.

Use all-destroying star beam to wipe out planets you dislike, etc...
Quinc4623
Space Explorers Federation
#8 - 2012-08-22 04:33:47 UTC
Stars are so incredibly massive that even a freighter full of ANYTHING would fail to upset them. Remember than the sun has over 99% of the solar system's mass. Launching Jupiter into the sun would barely cause a solar burp. I suppose if you launched jupiter into the sun at light speed that could cause problems though. However if you have access to that kind of energy, perhaps you should just build a giant laser and shoot the guy, instead of messing with his sun.

Though yes, sun killers are a staple of science fiction.
Myxx
The Scope
#9 - 2012-08-22 04:51:21 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Imagine if wormholes worked like Portal portals. Fire orange into center of sun, fire blue into space - differential pressure gradient causes the space portal to squirt out a beam of hyper-dense star guts at relativistic velocities, as the star with the orange portal in it begins to contract, crushing its insides out through the hole in its core.

Use all-destroying star beam to wipe out planets you dislike, etc...

I now hope that the portal gun never becomes real and that if it does, interstellar travel is heavily limited.
Anslo
Scope Works
#10 - 2012-08-22 12:11:49 UTC
So the above mentioned comments would be for the actual sun for the Sol System. NOW....what about an Eve sun? Say...the sun of Amarr Prime or some such.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-08-22 12:56:18 UTC
Pump some iron in to that sucker. insta kill :)

^^ im not joking btw Iron is the way to go. Delivery is the problem.
Anslo
Scope Works
#12 - 2012-08-22 14:28:47 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Pump some iron in to that sucker. insta kill :)

^^ im not joking btw Iron is the way to go. Delivery is the problem.


Doesn't a ship tunnel a warp corridor through a planet? Couldn't it theoretically be done with a few freighters with cargo bays full of iron wall to wall?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-08-22 15:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: kraiklyn Asatru
When you state it like that, I don't see why not. However I think it isn't that easy otherwise we would surely see stars exploding on a regular basis. Considering that the formation or introduction of a single Iron molecule to the active process kills a star, but that is when it is synthesized, I think more might be needed to collapse a star artificially. I am sure someone would have tried it by now. Knowing minmatar ships, it would even be surprising it hasn't happened accidentally already. Especially since several of my ships have been prone to losing wingy bits. So something about warp technology must not allow for the exit out of warp within the sun. Either that or the quantity required
Anslo
Scope Works
#14 - 2012-08-22 16:08:21 UTC
Yeah that is a weird bit of lore...we need a Dev or a Physicist.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#15 - 2012-08-22 17:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: David Forge
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
When you state it like that, I don't see why not. However I think it isn't that easy otherwise we would surely see stars exploding on a regular basis. Considering that the formation or introduction of a single Iron molecule to the active process kills a star, but that is when it is synthesized, I think more might be needed to collapse a star artificially. I am sure someone would have tried it by now. Knowing minmatar ships, it would even be surprising it hasn't happened accidentally already. Especially since several of my ships have been prone to losing wingy bits. So something about warp technology must not allow for the exit out of warp within the sun. Either that or the quantity required


I am quite certain that a single iron atom would have no effect on the processes of a star. Setting aside that any given star at stage in its life is bound to have a very large number of all types of elements either through its normal fusion process (while most of the fusion will be of the hydrogen and helium variety for a normal star for most its life over time randomness will result in the fusion of larger and more exotic elements, especially iron) or from leftovers of the previous stars that provided the mass to form the star. Our sun, for instance, is 0.16% iron.

All the heavier elements that make up things like planets (metals, gases, and even up to uranium and plutonium) are the product from past stellar fusion processes. Large and/or hot stars can continue fusion all the way up to silicon and at that point iron will make up a surprising amount of the star's mass.

There's no element/molecule that we know of that could be introduced in small amounts to a star to disrupt its process in any appreciable way. Unless we want to talk about exotic forms of matter, like strangelets or something, the only way destroying a star through the introduction of outside material will necessitate just a very, very large amount something (just about anything would probably do). We're talking about a lot though. I have no idea how much or how to calculate how much iron it would take to disrupt the sun's fusion process but if it were even only 1% of the sun's mass you're talking about a lot of iron.

Again, I did some math (probably badly) and what I calculated was that a block of iron equal to 1% of our sun's mass would weigh 22 trillion trillion short tons and would be 18.5 billion trillion cubed miles in volume. That's a cube of iron 26.45 million miles on each side. If anybody plans on trying this do tell so that I can invest in mining lasers now.

EDIT: I think the reason that the hypothetical block of iron is so much larger than the sun itself is because I did not (and could not even try) to account for how the block would collapse under its own gravity and reach a much higher density (and thus much smaller volume) than normal cast iron. The actual ball (you couldn't keep it in cube form) would likely be much smaller but the above still illustrates, I hope, the gargantuan amount of material we're talking about.
Anslo
Scope Works
#16 - 2012-08-22 17:48:47 UTC
David Forge wrote:
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
When you state it like that, I don't see why not. However I think it isn't that easy otherwise we would surely see stars exploding on a regular basis. Considering that the formation or introduction of a single Iron molecule to the active process kills a star, but that is when it is synthesized, I think more might be needed to collapse a star artificially. I am sure someone would have tried it by now. Knowing minmatar ships, it would even be surprising it hasn't happened accidentally already. Especially since several of my ships have been prone to losing wingy bits. So something about warp technology must not allow for the exit out of warp within the sun. Either that or the quantity required


I am quite certain that a single iron atom would have no effect on the processes of a star. Setting aside that any given star at stage in its life is bound to have a very large number of all types of elements either through its normal fusion process (while most of the fusion will be of the hydrogen and helium variety for a normal star for most its life over time randomness will result in the fusion of larger and more exotic elements, especially iron) or from leftovers of the previous stars that provided the mass to form the star. Our sun, for instance, is 0.16% iron.

All the heavier elements that make up things like planets (metals, gases, and even up to uranium and plutonium) are the product from past stellar fusion processes. Large and/or hot stars can continue fusion all the way up to silicon and at that point iron will make up a surprising amount of the star's mass.

There's no element/molecule that we know of that could be introduced in small amounts to a star to disrupt its process in any appreciable way. Unless we want to talk about exotic forms of matter, like strangelets or something, the only way destroying a star through the introduction of outside material will necessitate just a very, very large amount something (just about anything would probably do). We're talking about a lot though. I have no idea how much or how to calculate how much iron it would take to disrupt the sun's fusion process but if it were even only 1% of the sun's mass you're talking about a lot of iron.

Again, I did some math (probably badly) and what I calculated was that a block of iron equal to 1% of our sun's mass would weigh 22 trillion trillion short tons and would be 18.5 billion trillion cubed miles in volume. That's a cube of iron 26.45 million miles on each side. If anybody plans on trying this do tell so that I can invest in mining lasers now.

EDIT: I think the reason that the hypothetical block of iron is so much larger than the sun itself is because I did not (and could not even try) to account for how the block would collapse under its own gravity and reach a much higher density (and thus much smaller volume) than normal cast iron. The actual ball (you couldn't keep it in cube form) would likely be much smaller but the above still illustrates, I hope, the gargantuan amount of material we're talking about.


But we're talking about the eve universe, not our universe. Do we have that capability? Hell do we have to use iron? Couldn't be some other material like a crap ton of anti matter?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#17 - 2012-08-22 17:52:12 UTC
David Forge wrote:
Note: I am neither a physicist nor a mathematician.

I threw together some rough numbers just for fun, taking into account the above disclaimer it's very possible I made a mistake or two. Anyone with any real knowledge on this sort thing feel free to correct and shame me.

Assume:

1 Charon with 785,000 m3 of cargo space filled with antimatter.

Now, antimatter could come in all types of densities depending on what you make it out of, this is practically back of the napkin so I just assumed one cubic meter would contain one ton of antimatter.

I used a calculator to do the antimatter reaction energy output as I do not trust myself to do it but at 785,000 tons of antimatter I got an explosive output of 30,646,400,000 megatons. Converting into joules (again, with a calculator made by someone smarter than I) I got 1.2822454 x 10^26 joules. Wikipedia says that the energy output of the sun (a smallish star) per second is 3.8 x 10^26. So we're looking at an explosion that (let's say happened in a single second which is unlikely but simplifies the problem) would increase the energy output of a star of the same size and type as ours by almost exactly 1/3 for one second. This effect diminishes quickly if the time for the explosion to occur increases. A ten second explosion would (I'm guessing) result in ten seconds where the energy output of the star was increased by only a little over 3%.

So, after this cursory examination, I would advise the OP to find a very small star or a very large number of freighters. Alternatively, figure out Sansha wormhole technology and open one directly into or through a star. That's bound to cause problems.

Anslo
Scope Works
#18 - 2012-08-22 17:53:58 UTC
David Forge wrote:
David Forge wrote:
Note: I am neither a physicist nor a mathematician.

I threw together some rough numbers just for fun, taking into account the above disclaimer it's very possible I made a mistake or two. Anyone with any real knowledge on this sort thing feel free to correct and shame me.

Assume:

1 Charon with 785,000 m3 of cargo space filled with antimatter.

Now, antimatter could come in all types of densities depending on what you make it out of, this is practically back of the napkin so I just assumed one cubic meter would contain one ton of antimatter.

I used a calculator to do the antimatter reaction energy output as I do not trust myself to do it but at 785,000 tons of antimatter I got an explosive output of 30,646,400,000 megatons. Converting into joules (again, with a calculator made by someone smarter than I) I got 1.2822454 x 10^26 joules. Wikipedia says that the energy output of the sun (a smallish star) per second is 3.8 x 10^26. So we're looking at an explosion that (let's say happened in a single second which is unlikely but simplifies the problem) would increase the energy output of a star of the same size and type as ours by almost exactly 1/3 for one second. This effect diminishes quickly if the time for the explosion to occur increases. A ten second explosion would (I'm guessing) result in ten seconds where the energy output of the star was increased by only a little over 3%.

So, after this cursory examination, I would advise the OP to find a very small star or a very large number of freighters. Alternatively, figure out Sansha wormhole technology and open one directly into or through a star. That's bound to cause problems.



Right...ok how about some other sci fi magical item?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#19 - 2012-08-22 18:02:51 UTC
You could use the Hand of Omega to turn a target star into a new Eye of Harmony. No more star plus you can power a TARDIS.
Anslo
Scope Works
#20 - 2012-08-22 19:10:49 UTC
David Forge wrote:
You could use the Hand of Omega to turn a target star into a new Eye of Harmony. No more star plus you can power a TARDIS.


Brilliant.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

123Next pageLast page