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Founding of the Order of Light's Retribution
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Anslo
Scope Works
#41 - 2012-08-23 14:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Azdan Amith wrote:

Our purpose is to show you that you need redemption and then teach you how to fight the fight yourself.

The Minmatar chose to fight us instead of fighting against the sins within themselves.

It is still our purpose to show you how to fight for redemption before God lest you perish in rebellion against him and we will continue in this purpose. Through the struggle, a few may be saved and that is worth the effort.


They. Don't. Want. It. Why do you keep wasting lives in war instead of just letting them live their lives? Is this such a hard concept to grasp?

Maybe if you talked to them like a civilized society in a peaceful setting instead of shooting them, you would get better results. We're a space faring peoples, all of us. We're capable of some pretty damn amazing technological marvels, yet we just keep shooting each other for the stupidest of reasons; money, real estate, and beliefs.

If you're so enlightened, trade the guns for books, the armor for charity, and your zeal to beat them into submission into a zeal to help them out. Is this really so difficult?

EDIT: I realize the Gallente should be doing the same damn thing with the Caldari, so no I'm not trying to be hypocritical here, as I think an alliance between the Caldari and Gallente could be one hell of a force. Sadly, politicians and businessmen suck.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jev North
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-08-23 15:27:32 UTC
Interesting. What would you consider good reasons to keep shooting each other?

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-08-23 15:30:15 UTC
Some of them do want it though, Anslo. Time and again there are handfuls of Matari who embrace the Amarrian faith while all around them their brothers and sisters choose not to. Amith says as much in the very same post you are quoting, simply further in than your quotation. And there are people who do approach the subject with kind words and charity, with open arms and by speaking to others as prospective brothers and sisters rather than condescending and approaching them as lost children.
Anslo
Scope Works
#44 - 2012-08-23 15:55:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:
Some of them do want it though, Anslo. Time and again there are handfuls of Matari who embrace the Amarrian faith while all around them their brothers and sisters choose not to. Amith says as much in the very same post you are quoting, simply further in than your quotation. And there are people who do approach the subject with kind words and charity, with open arms and by speaking to others as prospective brothers and sisters rather than condescending and approaching them as lost children.


And I'm perfectly fine with that. If peaceful means bring Matari people to their faith willingly, then good for them. I hope they find peace and prosperity in their life and really do wish them and their families a wonderful life.

My problem rests with beam cannon diplomacy to convert people.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-08-23 17:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Azdan Amith
Anslo wrote:

Maybe if you talked to them like a civilized society in a peaceful setting instead of shooting them, you would get better results.


Since nobody apparently studies history anymore (or they willfully ignore it):


  • ~YC -20 - Minmatar Rebellion takes place
  • ~YC -3 - CONCORD is founded (this required the signing of treaties by all Empires involved)
  • YC 0 - Yioul Conference is held, solidifying cooperation and treaties between the major empires
  • A period of no recorded significant hostilities between the Amarr and the Minmatar
  • YC 108 - The Defiants begin a campaign of hostility against the Amarr in the Bleak Lands under the leadership of Republic Fleet Captain Karishal Muritor
  • YC 109 - The Defiants destroy an Amarr battlestation, Former Republic Fleet Captain Karishal Muritor is slain by a Republic Fleet after refusing to turn himself over at a truce meeting, conflict escalates again between the Defiants and the Amarr 7th Fleet
  • YC 110 - Malkalen Catastrophe occurs, conflict and tension escalates between all major empires with this news summary released detailing the escalation of events
  • YC 110 - Amarr Mercantile vessels are destroyed in Minmatar space
  • YC 110 - Minmatar Milita forces support the Defiants actions in Bleak Lands
  • YC 110 - Amarr Empire accuses Minmatar Republic of supporting terrorist actions at the CONCORD Assembly, claim denied by the Minmatar Republic despite evidence
  • YC 110 - Joint military operations are held by the Republic and Federation shortly after the Malkalen Catastrophe
  • YC 110 - The Elder Fleet attacks and destroys the CONCORD Bureau in Yulai, following this with immediate invasions (in direct violation of the treaties signed between the empires) in the Ammatar Mandate, Jarriza, Kor-Azor, and Sarum Prime.
  • YC 110 - Jamyl Sarum I appears in Sarum Prime and repels the invading Elder Fleet which enters full retreat back to the Republic
  • YC 110 - The Emergency Militia Powers Act is ratified, starting the capsuleer Empyrean War


We were treating them like civilized people and we had treaties between us.

Anslo wrote:
If you're so enlightened, trade the guns for books, the armor for charity, and your zeal to beat them into submission into a zeal to help them out. Is this really so difficult?


The Amarr Empire has the greatest number of humanitarian and charity outreach organizations and programs of any of the major nations, including the Gallente Federation. Our zeal is for helping.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Anslo
Scope Works
#46 - 2012-08-23 17:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Azdan Amith wrote:


BIG LIST HERE

We were treating them like civilized people and we had treaties between us.

No, you weren't. You still held 1/3 of THEIR people. Not YOUR property, THEIR people you stole when you razed their home world all those years ago.


Azdan Amith wrote:
The Amarr Empire has the greatest number of humanitarian and charity outreach organizations and programs of any of the major nations, including the Gallente Federation. Our zeal is for helping.

Then help the Minmatar by letting their citizens who WANT to go back to the Republic GO BACK TO THE DAMN REPUBLIC. IF some want to stay and live with the Amarr, sure, fair enough. No need to infringe on their free will.

But when it comes to those being held against their will, the people who put on that gods damned drug against their will, you are and always WILL be in the wrong.

I'm sure that an equally "long and impressive list" could be put together for Amarr aggression. To me, the Defiant's attack was a long time coming. No matter what amount of history you quote or examples you give, it all goes back to the Dark Days, the days YOUR people invaded the home world of the Matari people and razed it. I'd say THAT's enough justification for being rather pissed off enough to take a few shots at you.

When it comes down to it, you just want servants for your self-righteous, haughty civilization so puffed up with pride. Doesn't your God say something about humility and humbility? If you want servants so your fiefdom can be lazy, make some gods damn drones or servitors. Jeesh.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-08-23 17:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Azdan Amith
Anslo wrote:

No, you weren't. You still held 1/3 of THEIR people. Not YOUR property, THEIR people you stole when you razed their home world all those years ago.


Yes, we still held Minmatar. It never occurred to you that the great majority of them didn't leave when the rebellion occurred and that a significant portion (if not all of them) could have done so? Secondly, this does not preclude that we were, in fact, treating the Minmatar Republic as a civilized society. Try arguing the point, not circumventing it.

Furthermore, your argument assumes that the people being dragged from their homes and families by the "freedom fighters" all want to go. You're also ignoring the recent mass emancipation.

Anslo wrote:
Then help the Minmatar by letting their citizens who WANT to go back to the Republic GO BACK TO THE DAMN REPUBLIC. IF some want to stay and live with the Amarr, sure, fair enough. No need to infringe on their free will.

But when it comes to those being held against their will, the people who put on that gods damned drug against their will, you are and always WILL be in the wrong.


Again with the free will. You have refused to listen to anything said by anyone and only seek to further protest your own viewpoints. We agree that Vitoxin is vile and wrong. By "we," I mean you and I personally as well as many individuals in the Empire but not necessarily the Empire as a whole.

Anslo wrote:
I'm sure that an equally "long and impressive list" could be put together for Amarr aggression.


"You're sure" without actually looking at the facts? How typical.

Anslo wrote:
To me, the Defiant's attack was a long time coming. No matter what amount of history you quote or examples you give, it all goes back to the Dark Days, the days YOUR people invaded the home world of the Matari people and razed it. I'd say THAT's enough justification for being rather pissed off enough to take a few shots at you.


Ah finally, we come to the truth behind all of this yelling and hostility. Your viewpoint on what is and is not justified. Your judgment of what should and should not be considered justice in the cluster. Your acceptance of the actions of the Minmatar people because you believe them justified. Your interpretation of historical fact and relevance.

It seems that you too will simply have to be tuned out as insignificant background noise as that is all the relevance you have at this point. Forgive me for actually attempting to be reasonable with you. I'm ignoring your last attempt at a jab because it's borne of both ignorance and petulance.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Anslo
Scope Works
#48 - 2012-08-23 18:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Azdan Amith wrote:
Yes, we still held Minmatar. It never occurred to you that the great majority of them didn't leave when the rebellion occurred and that a significant portion (if not all of them) could have done so? Secondly, this does not preclude that we were, in fact, treating the Minmatar Republic as a civilized society. Try arguing the point, not circumventing it. Furthermore, your argument assumes that the people being dragged from their homes and families by the "freedom fighters" all want to go. You're also ignoring the recent mass emancipation.


See the timeline below. That to me, on top of servitude and slavery, does not seem like treating a group as "civilized," more like second class citizens. There's no circumventing that. The two go hand in hand. Why rebel when you're "living the life?" You're pathetic.

Also, of course some were afraid to leave, it was a quick military move and I doubt they knew what was going on. Furthermore; there isn't an effective cure to the god damn Vitoxin YOU people got them on. No Vitoxin, no life. Also the emancipation was a gods damn political move for your zombie Empress to solidify power. Now if she ordered ALL slaves freed, and let them ALL be citizens of Amarr, no strings attached, and let them leave safely if they wanted to, hell we wouldn't be having this conversation. But no. It was political.

Azdan Amith wrote:
Again with the free will. You have refused to listen to anything said by anyone and only seek to further protest your own viewpoints. We agree that Vitoxin is vile and wrong. By "we," I mean you and I personally as well as many individuals in the Empire but not necessarily the Empire as a whole.


Tough ****. I and others will judge your PEOPLES actions as a whole. If you don't like it fine, I'm not here to criticize you the individual. My problem is with the whole damn EMPIRE.

Azdan Amith wrote:
"You're sure" without actually looking at the facts? How typical.


Because it's not reported in the news means it doesn't happen? Your propaganda machine has gotten to your head. And you say I don't listen?? Why don't you take a look at history yourself you old pious ****.

AD 20374

* (Approx) Minmatar tribes amalgamate, forming a planetary culture

AD 21413

* The first Minmatar space ship is built. During the next centuries, the Minmatar settle on a number of planets and moons in three systems, using ancient star gates

AD 22355

* First contact between the Amarr and the Minmatar. Amarr immediately raid the Minmatar nation for slaves, an activity they will continue for 125 years

AD 22480

* The Amarr escalate their slave raids into a war of conquest against the Minmatar, invade and conquer Matar, leave other worlds alone for the time being

AD 22947

* The Starkmanir tribe is annihilated by Idonis Ardishapur [6]

Gods know what else you've hidden from the cluster amount your private Lords and their ilk. I'm sure a surprise inspection would show less hospitable working conditions than a Caldari worker colony. And when it comes right down to it, you people subjugated them all with Vitoxin, enslaved them, and (BIG SURPRISE) these people were afraid to leave because there is no god damn cure for the addiction aside from death you pompous bastard.


Azdan Amith wrote:
Ah finally, we come to the truth behind all of this yelling and hostility. Your viewpoint on what is and is not justified. Your judgment of what should and should not be considered justice in the cluster. Your acceptance of the actions of the Minmatar people because you believe them justified. Your interpretation of historical fact and relevance.


My viewpoint? I'm from Gallente. You have TWO Empires saying you're not justified. It's our judgement against your injustice, our acceptance of what is rightfully payback for you assholes, and our interpretation is gods damn FACT. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if your Caldari allies despise your practices (Note: I can't speak for the Caldari...I don't know too many of them).

Azdan Amith wrote:
It seems that you too will simply have to be tuned out as insignificant background noise as that is all the relevance you have at this point. Forgive me for actually attempting to be reasonable with you. I'm ignoring your last attempt at a jab because it's borne of both ignorance and petulance.


Noise? Let me tell you something about noise you haughty ****. You people claiming you have the right to keep the Minmatar, you people claiming we Gallente as immoral. You people saying you have the "God given right" to reclaim all of the ******* verse. YOU people constantly spewing bible verses at us like we're some spawn of a demon. YOU PEOPLE SAYING YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO HOLD THESE PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL. YOU WANT INSIGNIFICANT NOISE?!? TRY LOOKING AT YOUR OWN ******* JUSTIFICATIONS YOU SLIME BALL. BILLIONS have tried to be reasonable with Amarr but you refuse to see past your ******* BOOK. The only thing you answer to is a shot between your eyes. You want ignorance and petulance?! Try thinking OUTSIDE of your faith and from other race's points of view, THEN look at your ******* excuse for justification you bible bashing, self righteous FILS DE PUTE!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#49 - 2012-08-23 18:38:23 UTC
I would like to gently suggest that nothing will be accomplished by this conversation, save deeper entrenchment.

Father Amith, best of luck in being a force of goodness in the Empire. You have many obstacles ahead of you.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#50 - 2012-08-23 18:42:35 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Noise? Let me tell you something about noise you haughty ****. You people claiming you have the right to keep the Minmatar, you people claiming we Gallente as immoral. You people saying you have the "God given right" to reclaim all of the ******* verse. YOU people constantly spewing bible verses at us like we're some spawn of a demon. YOU PEOPLE SAYING YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO HOLD THESE PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL. YOU WANT INSIGNIFICANT NOISE?!? TRY LOOKING AT YOUR OWN ******* JUSTIFICATIONS YOU SLIME BALL. BILLIONS have tried to be reasonable with Amarr but you refuse to see past your ******* BOOK. The only thing you answer to is a shot between your eyes. You want ignorance and petulance?! Try thinking OUTSIDE of your faith and from other race's points of view, THEN look at your ******* excuse for justification you bible bashing, self righteous FILS DE PUTE!


You may want to get in touch with Madam Halete about these outbursts.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Anslo
Scope Works
#51 - 2012-08-23 18:44:02 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Noise? Let me tell you something about noise you haughty ****. You people claiming you have the right to keep the Minmatar, you people claiming we Gallente as immoral. You people saying you have the "God given right" to reclaim all of the ******* verse. YOU people constantly spewing bible verses at us like we're some spawn of a demon. YOU PEOPLE SAYING YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO HOLD THESE PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL. YOU WANT INSIGNIFICANT NOISE?!? TRY LOOKING AT YOUR OWN ******* JUSTIFICATIONS YOU SLIME BALL. BILLIONS have tried to be reasonable with Amarr but you refuse to see past your ******* BOOK. The only thing you answer to is a shot between your eyes. You want ignorance and petulance?! Try thinking OUTSIDE of your faith and from other race's points of view, THEN look at your ******* excuse for justification you bible bashing, self righteous FILS DE PUTE!


You may want to get in touch with Madam Halete about these outbursts.


Kid, you don't know the half about my anger issues. My points still stand though...and dammit I need a smoke...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#52 - 2012-08-23 19:05:41 UTC
Overly familiar address aside, I was making a serious suggestion. I have it on good authority that interaction with Halete can help those with anger issues.

Personally, I use acupuncture and massage to maintain my equilibrium.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Anslo
Scope Works
#53 - 2012-08-23 19:11:49 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Overly familiar address aside, I was making a serious suggestion. I have it on good authority that interaction with Halete can help those with anger issues.

Personally, I use acupuncture and massage to maintain my equilibrium.


In all seriousness, you're probably right. I just like feeling pure, seething, anger and rage against this little **** and people like him.

But I'll keep your suggestion in mind Makkal, I might need it one day..

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-08-23 19:29:50 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
I would like to gently suggest that nothing will be accomplished by this conversation, save deeper entrenchment.

Father Amith, best of luck in being a force of goodness in the Empire. You have many obstacles ahead of you.


Many thanks Miss Scherezad, you have once again demonstrated humility even when I have failed to. I will always have obstacles ahead of me but they will not deter me. I will pray that Mister Anslo and I perhaps come to some sort of understanding in the future, though that seems unlikely.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Anslo
Scope Works
#55 - 2012-08-23 19:32:15 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
I would like to gently suggest that nothing will be accomplished by this conversation, save deeper entrenchment.

Father Amith, best of luck in being a force of goodness in the Empire. You have many obstacles ahead of you.


Many thanks Miss Scherezad, you have once again demonstrated humility even when I have failed to. I will always have obstacles ahead of me but they will not deter me. I will pray that Mister Anslo and I perhaps come to some sort of understanding in the future, though that seems unlikely.


Like I said, look at things from other race's perspectives and think about what you said. This isn't the Amarr's cluster, this is New Eden. We're all here, whether you like it or not. Realize that and broaden your damn thinking, then maybe we could come to an understanding.

Also that's Monsieur Tetua, not Mr. Anslo, thank you.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#56 - 2012-08-23 20:19:16 UTC
What you need, Anslo, is to get the hell off of these forums before you make yourself look even worse than you already have.

Ordinarily I might consider that a feat in itself, but given your posting of late, I'm not so sure.

This was a thread announcing the formation of an Amarrian organization that, if I read the OP correctly, is geared towards cleaning up its own trash rather than going and making a mess in everyone else's backyard.

It's a shame it had to turn into such a mess thanks to the bile-filled nonsense from people like you and Dos.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Graelyn
Aeternus Command Academy
#57 - 2012-08-23 20:46:00 UTC
Eh, he doesn't seem to be much of a challenge to Mr. Amith.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#58 - 2012-08-23 21:16:22 UTC
While I, and many of my kin, truly appreciate those who have, do, and will go to bat for us, Mr. Amith has stated he wishes to try and deal with some of the very issues which make the Empire so unpalatable to all of us, in whatever way he can.

I would much rather the Empire sort itself, than for others to do it for them... with the understanding that we grow increasingly impatient, of course.

Good luck, Mr. Amith. You'll need it.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-08-23 21:20:44 UTC
Thank you for the wish of luck, Shaman Surionen.

Sadly, it is likely that what I consider to be purging the Empire of its unjust and unrighteous elements may not align directly with what you'd prefer to see removed, but I believe we can both agree it is a step in the right direction.

May God smile on your path, shaman. I pray that wisdom and reason will win out for both of our people in the end.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-08-24 07:17:33 UTC
To recognize ones duty is to remain ever vigilant in order to stand guard against the cultural anathema of corruption, laxity of discipline and moral complacency both in oneself and in society is to know the true virtue of nobility not through birth but in thought and deed.

To be guided not by the base instincts of fear or self-interest but rather in hearing the calling of a higher purpose in life by placing ones own in the service of others with courage, conviction and self-sacrifice is the closest one may come to know the purity of perfection.

The difficult paths are often the most rewarding, for it is only through constant struggle and effort do we define and forge our will, our character, and come to know our purpose.

Good Fortune in walking down your path, Mr. Amith, I believe you have chosen it well.

Kurilaivonen|Concern