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CCP, how much isk has FW removed from the game?
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Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-08-20 21:37:49 UTC
LP store is an isk sink.

New FW is turning over billions of LP a week.

We must be burning through tons of isk.

How much?

Obviously, only CCP really knows, but I am damn curious myself. While we wait for CCP to (hopefully) respond, any thoughts on the effects to the economy of finally having less isk floating around?
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#2 - 2012-08-20 22:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Game-wide ISK faucets combined are nearly TWO TRILLION ISK per day (NPC bounties accounting for nearly half, and NPC buy orders for tags and sleeper loot and such for less than a quarter).
Usually about half of it goes into various sinks, the largest of them all being NPC sell orders (skills and blueprints).
While FW LP shops certainly help, they're not anywhere near enough to make a noteworthy dent in it all - all LP shops combined as a sink were only roughly a third of the skill/BPO sink not that long ago.

Source : CCP Diagoras tweets, collected via http://blog.beyondreality.se/ISK-faucets-sinks
(there is some older data, by CCP Chronotis, in a forum post at http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1401431&page=3#67 )

I doubt the FW LP shop changes (other than the reverted FW exploits) more than doubled the size of ISK sunk in LP shops overall.
So, yeah, it helps, but... eh.

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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#3 - 2012-08-20 23:06:22 UTC
The total sum of isk sunk through all LP stores early in the year was (off the top of my head) something like 6T isk a month, a number which was more or less balanced by the total sum of mission rewards and mission time bonuses. And that's ALL LP store transactions, a number no doubt dominated by mission runners - just compare the population in hubs like Motsu to the population in any of the FW militia channels, and then remind yourself that there are lots of places like Motsu.

So, I've got to agree with Akita T here, FW really isn't significant in the grand scheme of faucet/sink.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-08-20 23:37:45 UTC
Every little bit helps.
Sigras
Conglomo
#5 - 2012-08-21 03:06:41 UTC
This chart was part of the economic roundtable at FanFest 2012 (if you look REALLY closely, all of the inputs and outflows are labeled theyre just faint)

The thing that concerns me about this graph is that all of the sinks total 21.2 trillion isk which is less than pirate bounties alone.

This is super crazy bad news bears.

Elsewhere in the blog he goes on to say that the average isk per user rose from 400 million in 2010 to 600 million in 2011, so in the 7 years between launch and 2010 the average isk per user rose from 0.0 to 400 million then in one year it rose 200 million . . . that is not a good thing.
Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-08-21 03:13:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Smodab Ongalot
Upon further reflection and considering some of the points already made, I'm starting to sadly realize that the effects are not near as much as I had hoped.

Personally, I'm interested in seeing an eve were "wealth becomes more scarce" again. I guess here's to hoping in one hand and.....
Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-08-21 05:34:08 UTC
Before Planetary Interaction, buying materials for making POS fuel was an ISK sink as well. Anybody know how big of a sink it was? I have to think it was a pretty big one. CCP sure didn't give a rat's patootie about removing that ISK sink from the game.
Sigras
Conglomo
#8 - 2012-08-21 06:16:06 UTC
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#9 - 2012-08-21 07:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Swidgen wrote:
Anybody know how big of a sink it was?

As far as fuel parts go, we're talking probably at most 20 bil ISK/day, most likely quite a bit less. Remember, non-ice parts were dirt cheap, nowhere near the current prices.
As far as towers and structures go, I really doubt we've been talking more than 30 bil ISK a day. There weren't that many POSes wiped out on a regular basis in need of replacement, and very few brand new POSes were purchased from NPCs rather than resold by previous owners.
So, grand total, maybe 50 bil ISK a day. Or about 5% of the total current ISK sinks, and under 3% of ISK faucets. At best. Probably a lot less.

In contrast, all those PI things suck out ISK via PI building costs and import/export fees (well, not so much lately, with POCOs), but estimating those might be a bit harder. It's obvious though that it's noticeably less, but by how much, no idea. Could be 5 bil ISK/day, could be more, could be a lot less (especially since POCOs), that's not even a proper back-of envelope calc yet, but somebody could do the math if they care to.

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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#10 - 2012-08-21 13:13:51 UTC
Regarding PI, we have two tweets that we can use to estimate the current sink through taxes.

First.

Quote:
Yesterday in PI: 6.1bn spent on import taxes, 29.4bn paid in export taxes.


This was tweeted January 31st and gives an approximate total number.

Quote:
Player corporations made 200.8bn ISK from export taxes in Feb.

This allows us to subtract player customs office taxes from the total, as player taxes obviously aren't sunk.

So, net result, ~180b/mo spent on import taxes, ~882b/mo spent on export taxes. ~200b of the export taxes went to players, so we'll assume the same not-quite 1/4th of import taxes went to players as well and remove 40b from that total.

That leaves us about ~822b/mo removed in taxes through PI. Again, this is as of January, so numbers have no doubt changed somewhat, but it gives a feel for magnitude at least.

As to the sink that NPC orders for PI were, I seem to recall approximately 20,000 towers in Eve being a number from that era, so you could easily look at fuel cost and make an estimate that way, but I don't care to.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#11 - 2012-08-21 13:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Looks like what was taken out was more or less put back in and vice versa.
The PI change is most likely almost ISK-faucet-or-sink neutral, and at worst a halfing of the previous sink.

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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#12 - 2012-08-22 09:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CCP has been ESPECIALLY MUM over any real statistics about faucets & sinks ever since Escalation was released. I wonder if something has happened which is forcing them to bite their tongue & sqaush CCP Diagoras statistics posts?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-08-27 00:21:19 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP has been ESPECIALLY MUM over any real statistics about faucets & sinks ever since Escalation was released. I wonder if something has happened which is forcing them to bite their tongue & sqaush CCP Diagoras statistics posts?

is it tinfoil time again?

I should buy an Ishtar.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#14 - 2012-08-27 02:09:04 UTC
Diagoras supposedly quit, actually. Makes me sad.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#15 - 2012-08-27 05:06:28 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP has been ESPECIALLY MUM over any real statistics about faucets & sinks ever since Escalation was released. I wonder if something has happened which is forcing them to bite their tongue & sqaush CCP Diagoras statistics posts?

is it tinfoil time again?



Making fun of my tinfoil hat?

corestwo wrote:
Diagoras supposedly quit, actually. Makes me sad.


Really? Me sad too Sad
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#16 - 2012-08-27 05:18:44 UTC
Swidgen wrote:
Before Planetary Interaction, buying materials for making POS fuel was an ISK sink as well. Anybody know how big of a sink it was? I have to think it was a pretty big one. CCP sure didn't give a rat's patootie about removing that ISK sink from the game.


NPC goods trading were a huge faucet,

The amount of isk supplied into the economy from trading those goods would have dwarfed any sink effect of POS fuel.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#17 - 2012-08-27 09:48:05 UTC
/facepalm
Forgot about those completely.

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