These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Crusader is always Neat and Tidy

Author
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#161 - 2012-08-24 01:52:48 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
Also as I recall the Angel Cartel is just as much Matari as it is anything else.


Lord Kithrus,

With utmost respect, this is folly. By this claim, the Amarr would have to adopt the Blood Raiders and Equilibrium of Mankind as Amarr since they splintered from our faith and culture.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#162 - 2012-08-24 02:00:33 UTC
The Equilibrium of Mankind and Sani Sabik are Amarrian. Though the Sani Sabik is also Khanid now-a-days.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#163 - 2012-08-24 02:05:19 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
Also as I recall the Angel Cartel is just as much Matari as it is anything else.


Lord Kithrus,

With utmost respect, this is folly. By this claim, the Amarr would have to adopt the Blood Raiders and Equilibrium of Mankind as Amarr since they splintered from our faith and culture.


I know this but I'm trying to show him his own flawed logic.

No race is perfect granted but to make the assertion that his race by his own standards never does anything wrong is a laughable.

I'm not proud of everything the Amarr has done, I'm not proud of everything the Khanid have done either but I'm never going to for one second not stand for someone demonizing my blood my people or more importantly my faith.

What I can say of Amarr is that we are a regal holy nation who only seeks the best for the entire cluster.

Maybe some of us have lost our way but that only fills me with an ever growing zeal to be more like my better, forfathers and race.

And if the matari think they are so 'clean' as to assume they are without fault they do not understand what it means to be human at all.

Because like this thread started that is why were are strict.
That is why we push ourselves so hard
That is why we seek to be holy

Not because we are perfect but because we strive ever forward to sainthood.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#164 - 2012-08-24 03:10:43 UTC
Indeed Lord Kithrus.

Forgive my challenge to your words, my station demands that I seek clarification on such points.

May his light forever shine upon the faithful.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#165 - 2012-08-24 07:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Horak Thor wrote:


Its General actually do a little background research, and im not from a race of people that have invaded or enslaved anyone in our history can you say the same?


The Minmatar have never invaded anyone?

So I imagined those wrecks above Mekhios, did I?

And did I imagine this as well?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#166 - 2012-08-24 08:27:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Anabella Rella
The bottom line is this; neither the Minmatar, Gallente or Caldari recognize any "divine" right of the Amarr to forcibly spread their faith through the so-called "reclaiming" nor, do we recognize your deity. Your authority ends at your border. Why can't you accept this and leave the rest of us alone? I say your god doesn't exist. You say he does and that my "soul" will be forfeit unless I and my descendants for the next 9 generations bow to your will. As an adult well past the age of majority I say that's MY concern, not yours.

If you wish to peacefully evangelize across the cluster, fine. Just don't be surprised that if we reject your "gift" and close the door but, you insert your foot and force your way in, that we act to defend ourselves. Of course, this will fall on deaf ears as you feel that your holy charge is to save us from ourselves whether we like it or not. My charge is, therefore, to resist you until my dying breath as would the Gallente and even your Caldari allies.

P.S. to Blake: Had your people never invaded and abducted, murdered, subjugated and poisoned mine with biological weapons (vitoc) for a millennium we'd have never attacked. You started the war and the Elders attempted to finish it.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#167 - 2012-08-24 08:42:11 UTC
Hello everyone, after reading the discussion I thought it might be appropriate to share an old Intaki prayer my father used to tell me when I was a child. I hope you all find as much wisdom in it as I have over the years.

"From body to body your spirit speeds on, it seeks a new form, when the old one has gone. And the form that it takes, is the fabric you wrought, on the loom of the mind from the fire of thought. As dew is drawn upward in rays to descend, your thoughts drift away and in destiny blend. You cannot escape them for petty or great, or evil or noble, they fashion your fate."
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#168 - 2012-08-24 10:01:36 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:


If you wish to peacefully evangelize across the cluster, fine.


We've all seen what happens to peaceful evangelists in Minmatar space.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#169 - 2012-08-24 11:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Azdan Amith
Anabella Rella wrote:
The bottom line is this; neither the Minmatar, Gallente or Caldari recognize any "divine" right of the Amarr to forcibly spread their faith through the so-called "reclaiming" nor, do we recognize your deity. Your authority ends at your border. Why can't you accept this and leave the rest of us alone? I say your god doesn't exist. You say he does and that my "soul" will be forfeit unless I and my descendants for the next 9 generations bow to your will. As an adult well past the age of majority I say that's MY concern, not yours.


Miss Rella,

God does not require you to recognize or validate his existence nor his plan. God's authority is without boundary and without border whether or not you choose to accept or believe it. I understand that doesn't satisfy you nor does it change the scope of your perspective, but it is the truth of it.

I would also explain that there is no requirement for nine generations of slavery, that is simply the maximum length of time we will hold a people in slavery before considering our attempts as failures. Indeed, there is no requirement for even a single generation of slavery, it is dependent entirely upon the individuals involved in penance and instruction.


Anabella Rella wrote:
Had your people never invaded and abducted, murdered, subjugated and poisoned mine with biological weapons (vitoc) for a millennium we'd have never attacked. You started the war and the Elders attempted to finish it.


I will not discount that you had justification in your rebellion and that many wicked and evil things have been done to your people by the malpractice of the Empire. However, the Minmatar people signed treaties and agreed to cessation of hostility along with the Empire in the Yioul Conference, the war ended there and your people accepted the conditions of the cessation at that time. Your Elders broke the agreement and started the current war, even claiming the lives of countless persons innocent of your grievances against the Empire.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#170 - 2012-08-25 05:54:24 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:


Its General actually do a little background research, and im not from a race of people that have invaded or enslaved anyone in our history can you say the same?


The Minmatar have never invaded anyone?

So I imagined those wrecks above Mekhios, did I?

And did I imagine this as well?


if you call the defense of oneself invading you sir are a ******. please continue. it makes me feel good about myself.

.....

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#171 - 2012-08-25 05:59:21 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
The bottom line is this; neither the Minmatar, Gallente or Caldari recognize any "divine" right of the Amarr to forcibly spread their faith through the so-called "reclaiming" nor, do we recognize your deity. Your authority ends at your border. Why can't you accept this and leave the rest of us alone? I say your god doesn't exist. You say he does and that my "soul" will be forfeit unless I and my descendants for the next 9 generations bow to your will. As an adult well past the age of majority I say that's MY concern, not yours.


Miss Rella,

God does not require you to recognize or validate his existence nor his plan. God's authority is without boundary and without border whether or not you choose to accept or believe it. I understand that doesn't satisfy you nor does it change the scope of your perspective, but it is the truth of it.

I would also explain that there is no requirement for nine generations of slavery, that is simply the maximum length of time we will hold a people in slavery before considering our attempts as failures. Indeed, there is no requirement for even a single generation of slavery, it is dependent entirely upon the individuals involved in penance and instruction.


Anabella Rella wrote:
Had your people never invaded and abducted, murdered, subjugated and poisoned mine with biological weapons (vitoc) for a millennium we'd have never attacked. You started the war and the Elders attempted to finish it.


I will not discount that you had justification in your rebellion and that many wicked and evil things have been done to your people by the malpractice of the Empire. However, the Minmatar people signed treaties and agreed to cessation of hostility along with the Empire in the Yioul Conference, the war ended there and your people accepted the conditions of the cessation at that time. Your Elders broke the agreement and started the current war, even claiming the lives of countless persons innocent of your grievances against the Empire.


There are no innoncent whilst the amarr masses stand by and accept minmatar servitude. your people will die until mine are free, my people will die until mine are free.

Do i want these deaths? No i do not. Do i want freedom for my people? More than anything else in this god forsaken cluster.

.....

Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-08-25 06:40:49 UTC
Not only is a Crusader to be neat and Tidy at all times, they should keep their ships in formation while running from a battle.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#173 - 2012-08-25 06:41:29 UTC
But there ARE innocents, despite your protestations, and if you fail to treat them as such then it is you and you alone whose soul stands charged for the crime - and that applies equally across both sides of the conflict, as it always has. You cannot commit atrocities in the name of righteousness and stand absolved of your actions.

Everyone pretends that this is a 'complex issue' but it really is not.

Firing upon civilian ships. Slaughtering prisoners of war. Acts of collective punishment against uninvolved civilians. Murder of non-combatants. Do you need me to tell you that these things are wrong?
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#174 - 2012-08-25 06:44:58 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Not only is a Crusader to be neat and Tidy at all times, they should keep their ships in formation while running from a battle.


Monseiur, to quote a stadium chant I heard on Laic recently. "You only sing when you're winning." One hears a rather leaden silence regarding the state of the Caldari/Gallente front these days.
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#175 - 2012-08-25 07:35:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Amaki Mai wrote:
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Not only is a Crusader to be neat and Tidy at all times, they should keep their ships in formation while running from a battle.


Monseiur, to quote a stadium chant I heard on Laic recently. "You only sing when you're winning." One hears a rather leaden silence regarding the state of the Caldari/Gallente front these days.


Edit:
((apologize for this un IC post drunk posting forgot what forum iwas in))

.....

Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#176 - 2012-08-25 07:47:29 UTC
This week at the Academy we've been covering the Amarr-Jove war. What's struck me about the war, and the battle at Vak'Atioth in particular, is that the Amarrian sense of pride and arrogance often seems to overide Amarrian common sense. History tells of how the empire broadcasted for weeks prior to the battle messages of imperial dominance, proclaiming themselves as God's chosen, and yet despite the outcome of that battle which history tells us was one of the greatest defeats the empire has ever endured, Amarrians still persist in making similar proclamations to this day.

My point is that maybe when it comes to Amarrian/MInmatar diplomatic relations, the reason it so often seems that progress is so slow is partly because of this prideful stubbornness Amarrians display. Perhaps if the imperial crusaders were more mindful of this in their communication, a common ground beyond religious and cultural differences could be realized. Likewise maybe some of those on the side of the Republic could meet the Amarrians half way by being mindful of the possibility that during talks in the here and now, often the transgressions of the past seem at the forefront of their minds. My diplomacy teacher likes to say, "to realize peace now, we must often put aside that which happened then". I think this is especially true when one attempts to hold a person living in modern times accountable for the actions of those who lived generations ago. Which of course isn't to say that both sides do not continue to persist in violent acts against each other to this day.

Anyways that's my take on the diplomatic issues of the amarrian minmatar conflict. I hope I haven't offended anyone, I'm only a student after all and I don't assume to speak from any position of authority.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#177 - 2012-08-25 10:09:05 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:

EHEM one second.. hmm yes a clear throat.

YOUR NOT IN THE MILITIA NPC CORP NOOB STFU ABOUT STUFF YOUR HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INVOLVMENT IN OR POST WITH YOUR MAIN.

Thanks you thank you.


What in Eden are you babbling on about, especially so vehemently?

Furthermore, you have once again proven my point that you're painting with a broad brush and justifying your own sins while trying to condemn your enemy for theirs. We really have nothing further to discuss.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#178 - 2012-08-25 10:12:48 UTC
Mister Oliver,

You've said nothing offensive from my perception.

Hubris and arrogance are common vices among the Amarr and we have paid for them several times; we will continue to pay for them until we learn to set them aside. Even the Scriptures upon which we base our entire faith teach of humility, not arrogance. It is extremely easy to lose oneself to pride and arrogance but just as you do, expect to be humbled.

There are many things preventing peace between the Amarr and the Minmatar and you have touched upon two of the most prominent. My prayer is that we will eventually overcome ourselves in spite of one another.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#179 - 2012-08-25 10:37:39 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:


Its General actually do a little background research, and im not from a race of people that have invaded or enslaved anyone in our history can you say the same?


The Minmatar have never invaded anyone?

So I imagined those wrecks above Mekhios, did I?

And did I imagine this as well?


if you call the defense of oneself invading you sir are a ******. please continue. it makes me feel good about myself.


Well I don't know what definition of invasion you're using, but as far as I'm concerned if you launch a sneak attack against someone with whom you've signed peace treaties and go on to occupy their territory, you are invading them.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#180 - 2012-08-25 16:32:19 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:

...


Azdan do you even do anything outside of the public forum?

Ive had an agent sat outside your station in Penirgman for the last 2 days and youve just been there docked shouting your mouth.
Please undock so i can ehem have words with you.

.....