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Escort Carriers; How could we make them NOT game breaking?

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Anslo
Scope Works
#61 - 2012-08-16 20:44:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Considering an interest in allowing this into high sec, I would suggest this for the second one, Escort carrier .

I would modify it down to Orca size or smaller at least. Let it keep the shape and appearance of the carrier, possibly.
(Storyline could refer to it as an early model carrier design brought back for support)

Also give it high sec specific limits to it's value: I would call it a leash law for this aspect.
It cannot use fighters in high sec. It might be able to physically launch them, but the ship would be immediately flagged by Concord for action if so.
The problem is that, as soon as you design something like that to go into highsec, you have to drop pretty much all cap-like attributes, and that tends to remove the whole point of it.

I'm talking about hitpoints in the 100–200 EHP region; no cap reppers (local, remote or otherwise); in fact, pretty much no cap equipment of any kind, including those fighters. If you let it into highsec, it must die with ease when jumping into Jita and finding itself trapped in a suicide gank. If you apply this to the second role, you're once again back to it basically being a fancy Dominix, so why bother? Straight

I understand that highsec players would like to play with capships, but that's not going to happen because it has long ago proven to throw balance so far out the window it achieves self-sustained orbit. Caps are the reward you get for daring outside of those safe and comfortable borders, and the reason you can get them is because there is bigger fish out there that can and will chew them up and spit them out with no second thought.



edit: oooh! Just thought of a role bonus for the Escort version: moderate range-bonus for webs, and aggression-timer bonus when engaging allied/fleeted ships (so you can slingshot freighters with ease without getting stuck waiting for the timer on the outgoing gate) P


I still feel the Orca is a cap ship, high sec version, same with freighters, all die with relative ganking ease....can't an escort carrier?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-08-16 21:09:53 UTC
What are you going to escort with this carrier?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#63 - 2012-08-16 21:20:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The problem is that, as soon as you design something like that to go into highsec, you have to drop pretty much all cap-like attributes, and that tends to remove the whole point of it.

I'm talking about hitpoints in the 100–200 EHP region; no cap reppers (local, remote or otherwise); in fact, pretty much no cap equipment of any kind, including those fighters. If you let it into highsec, it must die with ease when jumping into Jita and finding itself trapped in a suicide gank. If you apply this to the second role, you're once again back to it basically being a fancy Dominix, so why bother? Straight

I understand that highsec players would like to play with capships, but that's not going to happen because it has long ago proven to throw balance so far out the window it achieves self-sustained orbit. Caps are the reward you get for daring outside of those safe and comfortable borders, and the reason you can get them is because there is bigger fish out there that can and will chew them up and spit them out with no second thought.



edit: oooh! Just thought of a role bonus for the Escort version: moderate range-bonus for webs, and aggression-timer bonus when engaging allied/fleeted ships (so you can slingshot freighters with ease without getting stuck waiting for the timer on the outgoing gate) P

I think a fancy Dominix is close to what I heard described somewhere on this idea. I doubt they would complain on that version.

If I could use an analogy, I think what is being looked for is something like this:
What a battle cruiser is to a cruiser, so this ship would be to a Dominix.
Just focused on a scaled down version of the role normally performed by a proper carrier.

That role bonus you added sounds useful, although I have no figures as to how many would use it like that with freighters.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#64 - 2012-08-16 21:20:42 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I still feel the Orca is a cap ship, high sec version, same with freighters, all die with relative ganking ease....can't an escort carrier?
The reason Orcas die is because the only thing that makes them cap ships are the construction components and the size. In every other respect, they're misshapen battleships. You can push the hitpoints a bit higher than the normal BS will sport (but not by much) and you can fit some of the lesser large-size modules, but they're extremely limited in what actually goes on there.

As such, if you impose that restriction on these proposed escort carriers, you might as well just use a battleship because it will be able to do the same thing (and retain a higher degree of versatility). That also leaves the question of what on earth will it escort? It'll be weak to the very things it's meant to protect against (and the nature of highsec means that escorting is far more about scouting than being on-grid when something happens). If it's there to provide longer-term repping, then you're encroaching on the territory of logis.
Chibikko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-08-16 22:11:48 UTC
Tech 2 Battleship approach
Feels a bit like a group of souped up domis without turrets but definitely fills the target of a big hi-sec legal drone boat/support without encroaching too much on logistics. Decent prospects for a mission or incursion fit is there aswell.

Gallente:
Battleship Bonuses:
5% drone damage and drone EWAR effectivness per level
10% drone hp per level

Light Carrier Bonuses:
10% Afterburner velocity and Microwarp Drive Signature factor reduction per level
+1 drone per level

Role Bonus: 100% Remote Repair and Shield Transfer Range, 50% Reduced Cycle time for Remote repair and Shield Transfer

Slot layout: 4 H, 7 M, 7 L, 1 Turret
Fittings: 12k PWG, 800 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000 / 9500 / 8500
Mobility (velocity / agility / mass / align time): 105 / 0.12 / 10210000 / 15.56s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 250 / 750
Targeting (targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 100 / 10
Sensor strength: 29
Signature radius: 460
Cargo capacity: 300



Amarr:
Battleship Bonuses:
5% em, thermal drone damage and optimal range per level
5% drone resists per level

Light Carrier Bonuses:
5% armor resists per level
+1 drone per level

Role Bonus: 100% Remote Repair and Shield Transfer Range, 50% Reduced Cycle time for Remote repair and Shield Transfer

Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 8 L, 1 Turret
Fittings: 14k PWG, 730 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000 / 12000 / 6000
Mobility (velocity / agility / mass / align time): 90 / 0.13 / 11630000 / 17.56s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 250 / 1000
Targeting (targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 100 / 10
Sensor strength: 29
Signature radius: 470
Cargo capacity: 250


Caldari:
Battleship Bonuses:
10% EWAR drone effectivness and optimal range per level
5% drone resists per level

Light Carrier Bonuses:
5% shield resists per level
+1 drone per level

Role Bonus: 100% Remote Repair and Shield Transfer Range, 50% Reduced Cycle time for Remote repair and Shield Transfer

Slot layout: 4 H, 8 M, 6 L, 1 Launcher
Fittings: 10k PWG, 1030 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 13000 / 6500 / 5000
Mobility (velocity / agility / mass / align time): 98 / 0.13 / 11390000 / 17.02s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 250 / 650
Targeting (targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 10
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 500
Cargo capacity: 270


Minmatar:
Battleship Bonuses:
40% Heavy drone velocity per level
10% drone hp per level

Light Carrier Bonuses:
10% Afterburner and Microwarp Drive velocity per level
+1 drone per level

Role Bonus: 100% Remote Repair and Shield Transfer Range, 50% Reduced Cycle time for Remote repair and Shield Transfer

Slot layout: 5 H, 6 M, 7 L, 1Launcher, 1 Turret
Fittings: 13k PWG, 920 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12000 / 10000 / 5500
Mobility (velocity / agility / mass / align time): 132 / 0.128 / 11000000 / 16.23s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 250 / 650
Targeting (targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 100 / 10
Sensor strength: 29
Signature radius: 440
Cargo capacity: 280
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#66 - 2012-08-16 22:21:14 UTC
Chibikko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-08-16 22:25:58 UTC
Thanks, tried to keep them in the Marauder / Pirate BS power range and get some thick racial flavor on them that standard carriers lack. They're all pretty different in application except perhaps Amarr and Gallente. Thinking prereqs something along the lines of Racial Battleship V, Drone Interfacing V.
Antal Marius
Allied Operations
Mechanicus Macabre Immortale
#68 - 2012-08-18 09:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Antal Marius
Chibikko wrote:
Thanks, tried to keep them in the Marauder / Pirate BS power range and get some thick racial flavor on them that standard carriers lack. They're all pretty different in application except perhaps Amarr and Gallente. Thinking prereqs something along the lines of Racial Battleship V, Drone Interfacing V.




I like that idea, with the T2 battleship approach. Would limit the amount of "WTF DERE IS NO HOL DERE 2 FILL!!!?111" From the forum trolls, since we're lacking a T2 Tier 3 battleship. Add in another drone skill beyond Drone Interfacing (The other T2 battleships have a second skill needed too as well), something like Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing. A little off the wall, but a skill very useful to droneboats.