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[Winter] More Combat Frigates!

First post First post
Author
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#41 - 2012-08-16 14:16:53 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Missiles aside, does the navitas not look like it should be a drone ship?


Exactly! It looks like the Vexor and Dominix. Well at least the lines of the ship.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#42 - 2012-08-16 14:19:32 UTC
Also drone tracking speed? This thing is suppose to be a drone sniper with one sentry? It can't even fit two of them. Please go back to the drawing board with this one.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#43 - 2012-08-16 14:24:15 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Also drone tracking speed? This thing is suppose to be a drone sniper with one sentry? It can't even fit two of them. Please go back to the drawing board with this one.


No? Its designed as a frigate brawler. The drone tracking bonus increases dps vs frigates and other light drones
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#44 - 2012-08-16 14:26:51 UTC
I agree that drone tracking is a very useful bonus to light drones

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#45 - 2012-08-16 14:29:55 UTC
actually its ingenious what ccp fozzie has done it allows the tristan to either use rail/sentry combo or blasters/lights.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#46 - 2012-08-16 14:32:55 UTC
Are these meant to be brawlers? I think these are meant to be ranged ships. Look at the stats compared to the close range combat frigates. These are slower and the Tristan has one less tank slot.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#47 - 2012-08-16 14:37:40 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Are these meant to be brawlers? I think these are meant to be ranged ships. Look at the stats compared to the close range combat frigates. These are slower and the Tristan has one less tank slot.


not "these". breacher and kestrel are designed for medium to long range.
the tristan looks atm like it could do both. the missing slot is strange though. maybe an oversight?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#48 - 2012-08-16 14:39:17 UTC
In fact the Tristan is slower than the Tormentor and Punisher in addition to the one less tank slot (every other combat frigate has 10 slots on the Tristan only 9).
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#49 - 2012-08-16 14:40:38 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Missiles aside, does the navitas not look like it should be a drone ship?
Exactly! It looks like the Vexor and Dominix. Well at least the lines of the ship.

There's an easy fix for this. :)

From:
Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level

To
Navitas:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level

Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#50 - 2012-08-16 14:41:53 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Missiles aside, does the navitas not look like it should be a drone ship?
Exactly! It looks like the Vexor and Dominix. Well at least the lines of the ship.

There's an easy fix for this. :)

From:
Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level

To
Navitas:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level



Approved.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#51 - 2012-08-16 14:42:43 UTC
I dont really see how it makes any difference at all.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#52 - 2012-08-16 14:44:59 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Missiles aside, does the navitas not look like it should be a drone ship?
Exactly! It looks like the Vexor and Dominix. Well at least the lines of the ship.

There's an easy fix for this. :)

From:
Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level

To
Navitas:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level



Approved.

I second this approval

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#53 - 2012-08-16 14:54:17 UTC
@CCP Fozzie while I like mystery, if you could say at least weather the new navitas design will be used as a drone ship, it yes I think we will be happy with the Tristan.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-08-16 15:14:54 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
In fact the Tristan is slower than the Tormentor and Punisher in addition to the one less tank slot (every other combat frigate has 10 slots on the Tristan only 9).


It doesn't have one less tank slot. It has one less High slot, and that's only because it has a whole bunch of drones. And most Gallente ships have one low traded for a mid compared to Amarrian ships.

I say Tristan being a drone boat is awesome. Less missiles on Gallente, more drones!

And why are people getting so worked up about the Drone boat slot being passed to the Tristan rather than the Navitis? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that! do still wonder about what the Navitis is going to be though, but we'll have to wait and see.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#55 - 2012-08-16 15:16:50 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
CCP Fozzie

Is there any chance that the -10% laser cap usage bonus will be looked at while you're rebalancing T1 ships? It's something that you guys probably want to address sooner or later, and in this case, sooner would save you some work.


It would be a complete waste of time to pause Tiericide to rework Amarr ships - many of which are balanced fine with the cap use bonus - and then have to rework them again when the delayed Tiericide was resumed.
Zoofelynn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-08-16 15:18:55 UTC
How come "small" balance changes have to come along a big expansion? Why not just continuously balance and put these changes and other upcoming balance changes into small patches that can be applied during a regular maintenance?

To be fair, it doesn't take months to come up with the changes currently suggested. With this pace it's gonna take until 2020 before all ships have been looked at.
mkint
#57 - 2012-08-16 15:28:13 UTC
So... Tristan is going to be a better drone boat than ishkur? Same bandwidth plus drone bonuses.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#58 - 2012-08-16 15:29:39 UTC
Grideris wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
In fact the Tristan is slower than the Tormentor and Punisher in addition to the one less tank slot (every other combat frigate has 10 slots on the Tristan only 9).


It doesn't have one less tank slot. It has one less High slot, and that's only because it has a whole bunch of drones. And most Gallente ships have one low traded for a mid compared to Amarrian ships.

I say Tristan being a drone boat is awesome. Less missiles on Gallente, more drones!

And why are people getting so worked up about the Drone boat slot being passed to the Tristan rather than the Navitis? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that! do still wonder about what the Navitis is going to be though, but we'll have to wait and see.


I would like one missile ship in Gallente other than the Nemesis. I'm not saying less drone ships. What I am saying is that the Navitas looks like a space fish like the Vexor and Dominix. The Tristan does not.

I'm not sure how you are counting but the Tristan does have one less slot than the other ships. This would be a low slot not a high slot.
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-08-16 15:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Grideris
mkint wrote:
So... Tristan is going to be a better drone boat than ishkur? Same bandwidth plus drone bonuses.


For now that will be the case. Ishkur will still be tougher and do more damage itself, but I'm hoping they add the same bonus to the Ishkur (it currently only has the drone HP bonus, no drone tracking).

Marcel Devereux wrote:
I would like one missile ship in Gallente other than the Nemesis. I'm not saying less drone ships. What I am saying is that the Navitas looks like a space fish like the Vexor and Dominix. The Tristan does not.

I'm not sure how you are counting but the Tristan does have one less slot than the other ships. This would be a low slot not a high slot.



No, it would be a high slot. The Tristan currently has 4/3/3 2 turrets/2 launchers. However in this instance, they traded a high slot for more drone bandwidth. So yes it has one less slot over all, but the slot would have been a high slot, not a low. Amarrians have the tendency to pack on more low slots. It's always been for low slots (going most to least) Amarr->Gallente->Minmatar->Caldari. Which is why incidentally, you can armour or shield tank many of the Gallente or Minmatar ships, with Gallente leaning more towards armour and Minmatar shields.

Though saying all that, I would not complain in the slightest if they decided to add that extra low slot (but then again, I'm bias because I fly Gallente)

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need

Brunaburh
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#60 - 2012-08-16 15:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Brunaburh
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
This Tristan look nice ; though I thought the navitas should be a drone boat ; which role will the navitas have ? Drone brawler ?

Is the bonus of the Kestrel for all missiles ? Or only for kinetic ones ?


All missiles. It's a break from the usual Caldari bonuses but in this case we felt it was appropriate.


Spugg Galdon wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Like I said, some plans have changed in the past few months. The Navitas will be in the last set of frigates we reveal, but it's no longer planned as a drone damage frigate.


Then I'm sorry CCP Fozzie. I'm going to have to "unlike" this purely for the Tristen having no synergy with it's T2 counterpart. I don't know what the final plan is for the Tristan and the Navitas but I do really like the idea of the Kestrel and Breecher being so different but the same.

WTB Drone Navitas and Missile Tristan if possible Big smile


We didn't like giving Gallente a missile bonused t1 frigate and then leaving them with a stealth bomber (for which skills in rockets and light missiles actually have 0 impact) as the only possible upgrade.


So what's the point of having a Gallente T2 stealth bomber at all?

Seriously, you've now laid out that there isn't a single Gallente frigate that requires any missile skills. The whole "racial" combat platform of drones + blasters sounds good in your head maybe, but doesn't make sense from a gameplay standpoint. Blaster boats have to be point blank and are armor tanked, so are slow to get into range and do their damage. Drone - focused boats aren't practical in PvP unless you are a suicide PVP player, because of drone recall times in GTFO situations. You've taken one of the most offensive ships in the Gallente frigate fleet and crippled it.

In addition, you've now set up a good number of Gallente T2 frigates to be suboptimal straight off of the T1 frigates. due to a lack of any missile boats. Gallente have always had a harder time due to mixed platform training for weapons (drones, guns, missiles) and now you take away one of the useful cross-train paths. Seriously, think about it.

Just a reminder about the supposed upgrade to the Tristan:


Name: Nemesis
Hull: Tristan Class
Role: Stealth Bomber

Specifically engineered to fire torpedoes, stealth bombers represent the next generation in covert ops craft. The bombers are designed for sneak attacks on large vessels with powerful missile guidance technology enabling the torpedoes to strike faster and from a longer distance.

Developer: Duvolle Laboratories

Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Being the foremost manufacturer of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal.

Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to torpedo explosion velocity and flight time per level
20% bonus to torpedo velocity per level


To even touch this ship now you have to train a month of missile skills that have no bearing whatsoever to any other gallente frigate.