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Battleships: An Elegant Weapon...for a More Civilized Time
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Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2011-09-26 09:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zey Nadar
ShahFluffers wrote:

"True... you may not use a battleship often, but when you need to use one you REALLY need to use one as few things will substitute a good battleship in a fleet."


Depends on the fleet. Battleships still have uses, even though its mainly amarr and minmatar ones.

Trainwreck McGee wrote:

instapop


Ugh, we can't embed pics in here anymore? Ugh
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2011-09-26 09:20:18 UTC
Naran Eto wrote:
I run in a CNR and am thinking of moving to a Navy Scorp (so i can use one of those extra mid slots for an AB :D ) and i love battleships, the one thing that niggles me about them is how slow they move which can be a real PITA for missions with gates a good distance away, and from what i can tell a large majority of people i know that don't like them for exactly that reason, they go for Tengu's instead because although it takes longer to train for and costs a lot more, a tengu can tear its way through level4 missions far quicker than most battleships, so i understand where they're coming from, despite the fact that i will always love my battleships :D


1 word. Machariel. Speed tanking in a battleship.

It's a whole world of awesome in pvp and pve. It's no exactly cheap though but a fast fleet based around a couple of those is good fun and very effective.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#43 - 2011-09-26 09:36:58 UTC
Has anyone said NeutDomi yet?
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2011-09-26 09:48:55 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
"True... you may not use a battleship often, but when you need to use one you REALLY need to use one as few things will substitute a good battleship in a fleet."


if that is the thing your corp does, aye. it's basically like rico said: if your corp specializes on battleships, it's pretty much either training for bs or looking somewhere else.

i 'personally' never found myself feeling the need for a battleship, which is the reason for me not being able to fit one too well tho.
Lord Wamphyri
Starside Lost
#45 - 2011-09-26 09:53:27 UTC
How things have changed..

When I started years ago it seemed that all new pilots wanted to do was get into a battleship as quickly as possible, then whine when they got popped because their frigate guns didn't get the job done..

I waited about 3 years before I even bought the BS skillbook. I wanted to make sure that I had the proper skillset to back me up and enable it to be fitted properly, but now it's the ship I spend a lot of my time in.

[IMG]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/ChrisW73/WampsigFinal.jpg[/IMG]
Riggs Droput
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2011-09-26 10:05:46 UTC
I love flying smaller ships,

Loki, Canes, Slepnirs, Tengu's.

But there is something to be said about brawling on a gate with logistics support in a BS. I might only ship up to a BS on special occasions but when I do its usually something to remember.

For your average roam, I wouldn't want to be in a BS. I usually don't want to be in anything larger then a cruiser. Thats just me tho.

100mn Tengu's are mean and fun.... other then the 17sec align time

Riggs

I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees
Steph Wing
No Dukks Given
#47 - 2011-09-26 11:05:20 UTC
non judgement wrote:
Has anyone said NeutDomi yet?


I believe quite a few people were saying it, oh, five years or so ago.
Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#48 - 2011-09-26 11:06:36 UTC
for small roams i prefer smal ships, frigs, cruisers.

if you are going to bitchslap someone, and you have got a good logistics wing, BS is your choice.
It's like sitting in an 2000000 mm howitzer instapoping everything in sight.

From a bigger BS gang the main problem is targeting, becouse half the gang can't keep up targeting as how fast the enemy is vanishing.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2011-09-26 11:24:31 UTC
Wot I Think wrote:

It would be so cool to have 20 people in Amarr battleships blasting POS to goo, but nobody will train.





Join the CVA.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Holy One
Privat Party
#50 - 2011-09-26 11:35:00 UTC
"I would rather just fly frigates"

+1

T2 frigs consistently provide the most lols for me. Even after 8 years.

Its a shame battleships are redundant n all but that is indeed just symptomatic of the games overriding lack of balance.

I'd love to fly armour tanked amarr ships .. honestly ..

:)
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-09-26 14:01:07 UTC
You want to POS bash.
Your guys don't want to train battleships.

This suggests that the only mechanism you can think of for dealing with a POS is battleships, which is just not true.

Depending on the POS and it's location, there are better ships suited to the task.

All you need are enough battleships (other ships are viable) to incap the guns.

From there, the only requirement for the ships coming along is they can apply damage at 25km.

Enter, the stealth bomber. Good DPS, at range, easy to train, and doesn't involve training a ship class and weapons they'll likely never use again.

If you can't convince them to train either a bomber or a battleship, kick them from corp.
Vicar2008
MCMLXXVI
#52 - 2011-09-26 15:11:06 UTC
Just point them to the power of the Nightmare, rigged with T2 Tachs, I am fapping right now Twisted
AFKCloaked AltSpy
Doomheim
#53 - 2011-09-26 15:27:02 UTC
You bash a lotta POS's in the State War Academy there champ?
Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-09-26 15:36:07 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Tell them 20 Mealstroms would instapop most of the other subcap ships they would have wanted to train?


Lol yep. that and 20 Tempests.

The world we live in today eh? The last few policies CCP has implemented and we are getting the childish, niave, arrogant, lazy, and narcisistic kids from World of Warcraft in Eve. lol.

I don't want WoW noobs in Eve. And don't even try to argue this. I've played WoW extensively and one day a friend told me about Eve and i've never looked back.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#55 - 2011-09-26 15:51:40 UTC
Lord Wamphyri wrote:
How things have changed..

When I started years ago it seemed that all new pilots wanted to do was get into a battleship as quickly as possible, then whine when they got popped because their frigate guns didn't get the job done..
I was new back when that was the prevailing logic. I think that's probably why I don't particularly care for them these days: because at some during those early months, I had gathered up enough cash and prereq skills to buy the books and start training them, and then, just before actually doing it, I stopped and though… ”hey, what am I actually going to do with these ships?”

There was no useful answer. Same with everyone else in SAK chat — everyone was rushing there, but no-one could articulate why (ok, some could, along the lines of “but… CNR! For missions!”, which wasn't something that particularly interested me at the time).

So that book went back on the market, and here I am, 3+ years later, and I am yet to come across a reason for me to train them.
Jokerface666 wrote:
if you are going to bitchslap someone, and you have got a good logistics wing, BS is your choice.
It's like sitting in an 2000000 mm howitzer instapoping everything in sight.
…and this is pretty much why. As soon as there is a mention of a BS fleet, there is always that little addendum: logistics. Or the addendum “fast tackler”. Or the addendum “recon”. Even in that highsec POS bash where battleships might actually have a reasonably unique and irreplaceable role, those support ships are needed. So there is always room for a “not-BS.”

Granted, the OP is talking about a somewhat different situation where no-one wants to train BS (which I still consider a tasking-recruiting mismatch), but the whole argument about not being able to pull your weight without being able to fly a BS kind of falls flat on its face when you consider the myriad of support craft that a proper BS fleet will carry alongside.
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#56 - 2011-09-26 16:15:53 UTC
I love my Vargur (Battleship on Steroids) for mission running.

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire
Ginger Yatolila
Knaves of the Black Hellebore
#57 - 2011-09-26 17:16:48 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
noob with not much than 3 mil sp are in NM running incursions making billions dont see why your noobs cant do the same.

pathetic just how pathetic this game becoming.



What is really pathetic is that you are using valuable time to post how pathetic (in your opinion) the game is becoming.....Pirate
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
#58 - 2011-09-26 19:38:09 UTC
Steph Wing wrote:
The basic argument is that CERTAIN NEW PLAYERS put more stock in what EFT says is a bigger number than what actually flies, and are very very quick to dismiss the advice and experience of pilots who've been around long enough to know what's the better option. Reminding said people of this fact is the simplest thing to do. No need to be an ass, just gently remind them that, actually, you've been playing this game longer than they have, and you probably have a better idea of what's a good idea.

Specific counterpoints:

"I am gonna fly a Tengu"

Learn to actually PvP before you fly around a ship that costs a billion ISK to fiy properly. Alternatively, carebear.

"I would rather just fly frigates"

Admirable, actually. Train for battleships when you've maxed out frigate skills.

"I personally am just gonna do logistics"

Uh...wow? People actually want to fly logistics? Sounds like an ace pilot to me.

"I want a freighter"

Carebear.

"Have Nighthawk, don't need a battleship"

EFT more.

"Sleipnir does everything"

EFT more.

"I don't fly battleships"

Well what do you fly?

"I would train it but I need to get my elite certificates"

lol

"I would rather fly a Hulk"

Carebear.

"I am not in your corp"

I'm assuming this is an alliancemate? Talk to CEO?

"I think a Sac would be better than a battleship, no?"

EFT more.

"All I need is my Drake"

Is it a nanodrake? If it isn't, then EFT more.

"I fly the drake thats like a battleship"

EFT more.

"If Jeff is gonna fly a Drake so am I"

Jeff probably isn't the ranking FC in this conversation.

"Battleships are too slow"

Battleships aren't meant to be fast.

"MWD + Slasher, nuff said"

Kick from corp.

"I have Caldari Battleship, why do I need another BS?"

Torp ravens aren't terrible for POS bashes are they? I honestly don't know, the only caldari battleship I touch is the scorp.

"Only reason to train battleships is for carriers and I will never use one"

You've trained for them, might as well use them if the FC says to.

"It is suicide to fly a battleship outside of high-sec"

lol no

"I won't fly a battleship, cause I pay $15 a month, and you can't tell me what to train"

Kick from corp.

"In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks"

Kick from corp.

"I won't train it, cause I don't want to train it"

Kick from corp.

I don't mean to tell you how to run your show, but to me this sounds largely like a discipline problem with your new pilots. The remainder just don't know any better, and a bit of time actually flying in space will learn them good. Or they'll refuse to join fleet ops because their ship is arse, and then you can call them on not pulling their weight.



Must laugh at this arrogant Capitalist Fascist...
Especially the responses "kick from Corp"...
Any self-respecting pod pilot hearing these words from their leadership wouldn't need to be kicked as they would already be running for the exit doors.

Who in their right mind would want to be a serf in the ant-farm of these Oligarchs, wasting their time, energy, and resources in defending the RMT plantations?
Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#59 - 2011-09-26 19:48:58 UTC
Problem for most new players is, that they're used to fast things (most of them come from either fast MMOS (fast leveling, fast gameplay, or Shooters, fast running, fast rounds.

so they want fast ships and fast achievment so... Frigates and crusers

They do not realise that if you want to be good at EVE you have to be able to fly ANYTHING
Sometimes a Dramiel is just THE choice, but sometimes an ABADDOn is THE thing.... it all depends on the situaton, new players just have to realise, that EVE is not about "I WANT TO BRING SHIP X" it's about "THE FC NEED x ARMOR BS, X GUARDIANS, X TACKLERS, X..... "

they have to learn that eve is not about i am gonna be THE drake pilot, it's about what can i do to be THE fleet member.
In eve teamplay is everything.
Thats the main point.

All you have to do is teach them to be team players... ehm good luck with that, you can count that 15 % of your corp is going to be left in about 3 months.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#60 - 2011-09-26 19:59:32 UTC
I can easily understand new players not wanting to train BS right away - that's right and proper. But there's a lot of fun you can have with Battleships and it's a shame to miss out because of some pre-conceived notions.

I mean if nothing else, there's the Machariel, a fast battlecruiser that can fit 7x triple-bonused 1400mm Arty and easily have 160k EHP.

If you can't think of three great things to do with the Typhoon, there's some big gaps in your EVE knowledge or your imagination. Ditto the Domi.

Also, let's consider the Fleetphoon. And the Navgeddon. They're only 80-90M more than an Abaddon, ffs. (I am OK with saying this cos I just bought 2 of each). Come on, people.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016