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The Virgins of St. Junip
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Kithrus

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 436

#81 - 2011-10-03 10:01:52 UTC

Arkady Sadik wrote:

Merdaneth wrote:

I do have an issue with your methods.

Great. Have your Empress negotiate a sensible transfer of all Minmatar captives back to the Republic, or at least the permanent option for all of them to leave if they so desire, and we will stop our "methods" immediately.

You won't? Pity. Stop living a millennium in the past and turn your eyes to the future for once.

Again while that sounds witty at first glance I'm sure you understand that such things do not happen in a single day.

You say that we have been harvesting your people for years very well fine....

I'm sure its going to take at lest half that time to put them back...

Stop hurting the process.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 6,068
Andreus Ixiris Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation Likes received: 6,068	#82 - 2011-10-03 11:56:25 UTC 1 Why is "Delve" being used interchangably with "Hell"? Have I missed something? Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all. Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus. Andreus Ixiris > ... Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Mebrithiel Ju'wien

Anshar Incorporated

Likes received: 226

#83 - 2011-10-03 12:32:26 UTC

Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Why is "Delve" being used interchangably with "Hell"? Have I missed something?

You weren't there for the BoB/RA war, you don't know!

On a more serious note, Amarrian children are taught that Delve is where all the evil people live. We just carry on that tradition with Covenant children till they grow up and start to question why. Then we point out how the Amarr Empire vilified us many years ago and still do to this day. It helps them know who our enemies are.

But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose ♥

Rek Jaiga

Teraa Matar

Likes received: 314

#84 - 2011-10-03 14:09:09 UTC

Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote:

You are Sani Sabik, or Covenant-aligned?


Mebrithiel Ju'wien Anshar Incorporated Likes received: 226	#85 - 2011-10-03 15:06:39 UTC 3 Rek Jaiga wrote: You are Sani Sabik, or Covenant-aligned? I have many affiliations, but, yes, the Covenant are my closest and I do follow the Sani Sabik tenets very closely. You must be new hun. My corporate history should be the first thing you check But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose ♥


Rek Jaiga Teraa Matar Likes received: 314	#86 - 2011-10-03 19:04:02 UTC 1 Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote: Rek Jaiga wrote: You are Sani Sabik, or Covenant-aligned? I have many affiliations, but, yes, the Covenant are my closest and I do follow the Sani Sabik tenets very closely. You must be new hun. My corporate history should be the first thing you check Sweeet! See, I totally didn't look at your employment history, Blood Friend.

Dilaro thagriin

Doomheim

Likes received: 110

#87 - 2011-10-03 19:39:29 UTC

Kithrus wrote:

Arkady Sadik wrote:

Merdaneth wrote:

I do have an issue with your methods.

Ok kiddo. We'll do it your way.
But first, you must end the Reclaiming.

what? no dice? pity.

Arkady Sadik

Gradient

Electus Matari

Likes received: 703

#88 - 2011-10-03 20:53:24 UTC | Edited by: Arkady Sadik

Kithrus wrote:

The Republic has been waiting for the Empire to do something for over a hundred years. We have endured continued slave raids in the hope that somewhere beneath all the good words, there might also be good will. Maybe there was - but when Doriam died, so did any good will that might have been there.

A hundred years, and the most celebrated step of the Empire towards peace was the release of fifteen thousand slaves seven years ago. It took an enormous attack and invasion that shook the foundation of the Empire for something more than that to happen. Not waiting, not hoping - a gods-be-damned invasion was necessary for you to actually follow up on your words with actions.

You have been hurting the process of peace for a century. You have been pushing the patience of the Republic with no end. And when we turned the other cheek, you happily slapped that one, too.

And now, after a hundred years of hard work towards war, you finally got what you wanted - and you have the audacity to say we should have a bit of patience while you still do nothing?

Do you even believe your own excuses, Kithus of the defenders of faith?

Edit: Quick link for the readers who have missed the post I was referring to when I responded to Merdaneth, because Mr. Kithrus seems to think that "sensible transfer" means "immediate transfer".

Kithrus

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 436

#89 - 2011-10-04 12:43:50 UTC | Edited by: Kithrus

Dilaro thagriin wrote:

Kithrus wrote:

Arkady Sadik wrote:

Merdaneth wrote:

I do have an issue with your methods.

Ok kiddo. We'll do it your way.
But first, you must end the Reclaiming.

what? no dice? pity.

I didn't say no

Arkady Sadik wrote:

Do you even believe your own excuses, Kithus of the defenders of faith?

Edit: Quick link for the readers who have missed the post I was referring to when I responded to Merdaneth, because Mr. Kithrus seems to think that "sensible transfer" means "immediate transfer".

They are not excuses they are the facts of reality. You claim that you want is in a sensible time but you don't trust us on the times we give you. Fine granted trust is an issue but preforming acts of terrorism doesn't help.

You harden the hearts of those would could help you and you close the minds of those you won't.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Arkady Sadik

Gradient

Electus Matari

Likes received: 703

#90 - 2011-10-04 15:16:10 UTC

Kithrus wrote:

You harden the hearts of those would could help you and you close the minds of those you won't.

I am afraid that a thousand years of tolerating your terrorism has hardened the hearts and closed the minds of a lot of people who might have believed your excuses. A hundred years of no actual steps towards releasing our people have made your words ring hollow.

Just as an example, your claims that you are working towards releasing my people would sound a lot more believable if your Empire would not call for war with the explicit goal of reclaiming us. Considering that's what your goal is, I believe that your statements there do not match the Empire's goals, and are just some petty attempt to acquire support on IGS. Luckily, the general readership of IGS is not quite that stupid.

I never wanted this war, mind you. I wish we could have avoided it. But I have seen it coming with every empty statement the Empire issued, with every act of backstabbing the Empire did while smiling in public. Sadly, at this point in history, I am afraid you will have to do more to work towards peace than to issue even more empty statements.

I have proposed something in the linked post. It would be a start. Of course, all of this is idle talk and hopes from people who know that war is never a good solution, as the decision for or against war is out of our hands, isn't it?

Rodj Blake

PIE Inc.

Khimi Harar

Likes received: 2,669

#91 - 2011-10-04 15:23:32 UTC

Arkady Sadik wrote:

Kithrus wrote:

You harden the hearts of those would could help you and you close the minds of those you won't.

You accuse the Empire of backstabbing? It wasn't the Empire that tore up a perfectly good treaty and launched an invasion a couple of years ago.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Andreus Ixiris

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 6,068

#92 - 2011-10-04 16:04:40 UTC

Rodj Blake wrote:

You accuse the Empire of backstabbing? It wasn't the Empire that tore up a perfectly good treaty and launched an invasion a couple of years ago.

A treaty the Amarr Empire was consistently, flagrantly and openly violating by launching slave raids in Minmatar, Gallente and even Caldari space - yes, that's right, they launched slaver raids into the territory of their supposed allies - every day. I used to deal with about three of those a week when I was working for level II agents. Now I generally get called in about once a week by level IV agents who ask me to run cleanup after one of the less experienced capsuleers successfully locates one.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kithrus

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 436

#93 - 2011-10-04 17:20:32 UTC

Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Rodj Blake wrote:

You accuse the Empire of backstabbing? It wasn't the Empire that tore up a perfectly good treaty and launched an invasion a couple of years ago.

Except that's not true.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Lyn Farel

Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque

Khimi Harar

Likes received: 1,533

#94 - 2011-10-04 17:31:20 UTC

Kithrus wrote:

Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Rodj Blake wrote:

You accuse the Empire of backstabbing? It wasn't the Empire that tore up a perfectly good treaty and launched an invasion a couple of years ago.

Except that's not true.

And yet, lord Kithrus, this is definitly true.

But Mr ixiris also conveniently forgets that Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar military forces also had their good shares of raids in the 3 other territories as well. I know it, I had to face that too since day one I have been a capsuleer.

Andreus Ixiris

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 6,068

#95 - 2011-10-04 17:47:22 UTC

Kithrus wrote:

Except that's not true.

Except it's perfectly true. It's happening - right now. I could go to any level II agent in Gallente or Minmatar space and get a good chance of being put onto one of these aforementioned raids occuring literally as we speak. Denying it not only makes you look like a complete idiot (not, Kithrus, that you - even among other Amarrians - needed any help with that) but actually goes against the official Amarrian position that these raids do, in fact, happen.

Yes, you heard what I said. The Amarr Empire has implicitly acknowledged through various means that these raids are, in fact, of their design.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kithrus

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 436

#96 - 2011-10-04 18:56:18 UTC

Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Kithrus wrote:

Except that's not true.

Except it's perfectly true. It's happening - right now. I could go to any level II agent in Gallente or Minmatar space and get a good chance of being put onto one of these aforementioned raids occurring literally as we speak. Denying it not only makes you look like a complete idiot (not, Kithrus, that you - even among other Amarrians - needed any help with that) but actually goes against the official Amarrian position that these raids do, in fact, happen.

Yes, you heard what I said. The Amarr Empire has implicitly acknowledged through various means that these raids are, in fact, of their design.

Sorry I was taking a page from your book stating a one sentence reply and acting like it was true without backing it up. But be that as it may allow me to validate this statement now that we all agree replying as such is pointless.

Understand that the Empress, the Council, or the seekers of truth do not condone and if they were aware of the location of such raids would stop them. These are indipentant raids made without the blessing of the throne and braking the law and therefore are not the will of Amarr or God.

That being said its not Amarr's peoples fault this is happening and the correct response my friend is for you to direct PIE, CVA, The Navy, KotmC what have to these doing so we can end them.

Blaming us for them then doing nothing but hinder our efforts to end them doesn't for your good argument make.

Yes these raids happen but they are not Amarrian, they are heretic.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Andreus Ixiris

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 6,068

#97 - 2011-10-04 19:16:49 UTC | Edited by: Andreus Ixiris

Kithrus wrote:

Sorry I was taking a page from your book stating a one sentence reply and acting like it was true without backing it up.

Usually when I make such a one-sentence declaration it indicates that the statement it refers to is so ludicrous as to render it unworthy of justification, for fear that it might afford it some undeserved legitimacy.

Take, for instance, the statement you made that these attacks do not happen.

Kithrus wrote:

Understand that the Empress, the Council, or the seekers of truth do not condone and if they were aware of the location of such raids would stop them. These are indipentant raids made without the blessing of the throne and braking the law and therefore are not the will of Amarr or God.

That being said its not Amarr's peoples fault this is happening.

Kithrus wrote:

Blaming us for them then doing nothing but hinder our efforts to end them doesn't for your good argument make.

Kithrus wrote:

Yes these raids happen but they are not Amarrian, they are heretic.

Incorrect. The Amarr Empire is not only actively complicit in the occurence of such raids, it actually outright acknowledges this. Ships operating in these slave raids fly Imperial Navy-issue ships, and when destroyed, drop identification tags indicating they are members of the Imperial Navy. These tags, if I take them into Amarr space, are immediately identified by Imperial Customs patrols as contraband items, indicating that they recognise these identification tags as having belonged to deceased, non-excommunicated Imperial Navy members.

Most tellingly, when I destroy ships that are part of the task force executing the raid, I receive standing demerits from the Imperial Navy and the Amarr Empire proper, indicating that not only are these ships still operating under colour of the Imperial Navy, but the Amarr Empire is aware of their presence in our space and considers their destruction an act of hostility against the Empire. If these attackers were indeed heretics, deserters, traitors or some other manner of criminals and therefore persona non grata in the Empire, I should be receiving praise and rewards from the Empire, not condemnation.

These attacks are happening, and if they were not directly ordered by the Empress, the Privy Council, the Navy or someone else with the authority to do so, they are clearly condoned by same, and hindrance of these actions is seen as hindrance of the Empire.

Kithrus wrote:

and the correct response my friend is for you to direct PIE, CVA, The Navy, KotmC what have to these doing so we can end them.

You're genuinely asking that we put the security of our nations into the hands of those organisations that are loyal to the same government that is attempting to abduct our citizens? Not to mention that most of these raids take place in hi-sec Gallente and Minmatar space where the Imperial Navy, PIE and KotMC are most certainly persona non grata, and this likely extends to many members of CVA as well.

Frankly, when it comes to defending our territories, I'll stick with my Tengu and its Scourge Furies. They seem to be doing an infinitely better job of ensuring slaver filth pays the price for tresspassing on our land than you.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.


Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari Likes received: 703	#98 - 2011-10-04 20:47:32 UTC 2 Kithrus wrote: Sorry I was taking a page from your book stating a one sentence reply and acting like it was true without backing it up. I thought that was the trademark of Admiral Blake?

Anabella Rella

Gradient

Electus Matari

Likes received: 2,454

#99 - 2011-10-04 20:59:16 UTC

I honestly don't know why your waste your breath with the Amarrians Arkady. They live in a perpetual state of denial and justification. Precious few can be reasoned with, least of all the bigots like Merdaneth or the witless apologists like Feral.

Time to let the ordnance speak and for their god to sort out what's left.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Arkady Sadik

Gradient

Electus Matari

Likes received: 703

#100 - 2011-10-04 21:04:31 UTC | Edited by: Arkady Sadik

... I hope the humor in that last post of mine is not lost to the relevant people.

On a more serious note, as Ana pointed out, we are turning in circles here.

We have a war at hand, and thousands of lives are lost every day. That is bad.

Playing silly semantics games to try and argue about why it is now totally justified that the Amarr are launching a new Reclaiming to enslave the remaining Minmatar while it's ALL THE MINMATAR'S FAULT is not very sensible. "Look what you made me do" is the oldest excuse for doing what you wanted to do anyhow.

Fact of the matter is that the Amarr managed to have their own navy supposedly break Imperial law (no one so far could give me a reference for this law, but I take your word for it) with whole Imperial Navy fleets leaving their posts to break the uneasy peace between our nations while supposedly no one in the Empire noticed. And they have done so for a hundred years, following 800 years of occupation. And after all of that, when the patience of the Minmatar finally snapped, some Amarr seem to have the audacity to whine about how they just had needed a bit longer to actually do something.

I'm sure that an Empire that lasted for millions of years or whatever your latest propaganda says can't be expected to react to such details as "other nations" or "our own navy breaks our laws every day" in the timespan of a mere century, but I'm afraid that if you are that slow, you will have to accept the consequences of your slowness and stop blaming others for the results of your own failures.

Such as having to deal with people supporting your slaves in mutineering or escape if possible. I'm told you just needed a bit of time to do that anyhow - we're just helping you a bit, you know. You could at least be a bit grateful there.

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