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EVE Fiction

 
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Do you have experience in machinima?

First post
Author
Evet Morrel
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-08-28 16:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Evet Morrel
AlleyKat wrote:
Evet Morrel wrote:

By the way is there a script for this idea?


Which one?



I don't know, really. Anyway will watch this space and am willing to contribute.

A Soporific wrote:
How about this for a test story:

ATX, from the perspective a fictionalized version of HUN relaoded being blackmailed by Boundless Creation to turn use Vargur every match in the tournament in order for Boundless Creation to market a flagship product to a wider audience.



Tbh I would start with something really small and very simple.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-08-28 22:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Telegram Sam
OP, if I were you, I'd:
-Check out some of the specific capture and editing tools people mentioned. Practice with them and see what ideas you get, and how much of a commitment your project would require.
-Then, outline a short, simple plot.
-Then, try executing it in machinima.

From there, you may get inspirations for something epic, or you may decide to scale things back. Jumping in and doing helps avoid "analysis paralysis." Smile
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#43 - 2012-08-29 10:42:58 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
OP, if I were you, I'd:
-Check out some of the specific capture and editing tools people mentioned. Practice with them and see what ideas you get, and how much of a commitment your project would require.
-Then, outline a short, simple plot.
-Then, try executing it in machinima.

From there, you may get inspirations for something epic, or you may decide to scale things back. Jumping in and doing helps avoid "analysis paralysis." Smile


Solid advice.

This space for rent.

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-08-29 18:37:18 UTC
There are some unusually interesting ideas in this thread, so I'm going to chim in again.

When you create using tools (such as video tools, audio editing tools, paints and brush, or musical instruments), the saying "the medium is the message" becomes true. Example: A musician has a melody idea in his head. If he sits down to play with it on a grand piano, the dramatic timbre, resonance, and strong/soft dynamic range of the instrument might lead his ideas one way. If he instead sat down at an electronic synthesizer, the instrument's ability to produce customized tones, to infinitely sustain a note, and to store and repeat passages, speed up and slow down passages, etc. might lead the guy's ideas an entirely different way. The melody, as initially conceived, naturally changes and develops according to what inspires the artist while working with the specific tool.

(The U2 guitarist The Edge shows this in the documentary "It Might Get Loud." He plays a typical U2 riff straight to the amp, without using any effects. It sounds pretty embarrassingly primitive: 1-2, 1-2, 1-2, etc. Then he switches on his usual echo and delay effects, it sounds like a fully composed riff. That's because he incorporated the echo line in as a part of the composition itself. The echoed notes stand as independent notes themselves, and the composition is only complete if are there. Without the echo pedal, there would just be a portion of melody. The tool (the echo pedal) ended up being integral to the composition-- pretty much throughout The Edge's career as a songwriter. (He says in the documentary: "I was fascinated by this device that was playing extra notes that I was not playing")).

It's different if you're composing written-word fiction. Then it's a matter of developing a story and using language to convey it to reader, hopefully in an artful or at least interesting manner. No significant interaction with tools is involved. Which, in my opinion, makes fiction writing more challenging than audio or visual arts. You don't have the luxury of just noodling around with your tools (paints, guitar, video editor, whatever) and following the serendipitous inspirations as they emerge. But anyway, doing something like machinima does involve using a lot of tools. Both video and audio to be composed, each of which ought to offer a lot of creative challenges and a lot of fun. So I'd think doing some offline plot development, but some immediate composing via hands-on use of the tools, would be the way to go.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#45 - 2012-08-30 12:42:00 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
It's different if you're composing written-word fiction. Then it's a matter of developing a story and using language to convey it to reader, hopefully in an artful or at least interesting manner. No significant interaction with tools is involved. Which, in my opinion, makes fiction writing more challenging than audio or visual arts. You don't have the luxury of just noodling around with your tools (paints, guitar, video editor, whatever) and following the serendipitous inspirations as they emerge. But anyway, doing something like machinima does involve using a lot of tools. Both video and audio to be composed, each of which ought to offer a lot of creative challenges and a lot of fun. So I'd think doing some offline plot development, but some immediate composing via hands-on use of the tools, would be the way to go.


I will agree and disagree, if you permit me.

One quote from Stephen King stands out in my mind, regarding how he writes:

Stephen King wrote:

“When asked, "How do you write?" I invariably answer, "One word at a time," and the answer is invariably dismissed. But that is all it is. It sounds too simple to be true, but consider the Great Wall of China, if you will: one stone at a time, man. That's all. One stone at a time. But I've read you can see that mother****** from space without a telescope.”


As machinima encompases the written (dialogue), the visual and the audio - the task is perceivably insurmountable, but not if you have a good plan...or script.

Scripts are the blueprints for film. Once you have made the film, it becomes an obsolete document; but when making, is the foundation of what you build.

On the topic of characters, you need to listen to what they are saying, you need to let them speak, without hitting the period key and moving onto the next line of dialogue or transition.

If they do not talk, watch them. Watch them move, sit, stand, ponder, tap feet, drum fingers and of course avoid eye contact with them at all times. Observe their world through the eyes of someone else watching them, listening to them, and point out to them things which they might not have seen.

AK

This space for rent.

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-08-31 16:32:12 UTC
Those are good points, AK. Machinima involves telling a story, and if you don't have at least a pretty complete skeleton of the plot assembled before you start, you could run into serious trouble later. You might have an excellent idea later that changes the plot so much that already written/produced passages have to be thrown out or redone. (I've had this happen myself, and I'll admit that it put a serious dent in my enthusiasm for bearing down and completing the project). Not to slam Steven King, but his "one word at a time approach" might be the reason that a lot of people criticize the endings of his books. Going with the flow of specific ideas and atmospherics, he arrives at a point where he has no good way to wrap up the story. (For example, the kind of deus ex machina spider alien that pops up to resolve the plot at the end of It). But he sure has some great ideas along the way...!

I suppose machinima is pretty much the same as cinema. On the macro level, you have to start with a good script. On the micro level, you make creative decisions and get ideas while working with production tools and their capabilities. There can be brilliant spots in the production, but if the story in junk, there's no way it can be a great film.*

*tl;dr
Some cinema examples of weak script, brilliant production:
Many Japanese movies. Beautiful visuals and microscopic detail in the sound production. But the plots can seem like it's not a story, but just a theme or setting, with characters moving around in it doing things episodically. Examples: "Ronin Gai," "The Burmese Harp." But the mood and atmospherics can themselves still be very memorable.

Werner Herzog's "Aguirre." Brilliant cinematography in the Andes and South American jungle. Intensely good acting by Klaus Kinski. But the script seems to have been improvised along the way, so the movie kind of just meanders. Could have been a great one, but instead is kind of an example of "the medium is the message" gone somewhat wrong.
A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-08-31 18:34:02 UTC
You see, this is exactly why I need help. I haven't heard of any of these things. In fact, all this nuance and theory is way deeper than what I was considering doing myself.

All I managed to do was get in contact with the CCP Marketing department and actually propose an idea.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#48 - 2012-09-03 12:12:20 UTC
A Soporific wrote:
You see, this is exactly why I need help. I haven't heard of any of these things. In fact, all this nuance and theory is way deeper than what I was considering doing myself.

All I managed to do was get in contact with the CCP Marketing department and actually propose an idea.


And? Any feedback?

This space for rent.

A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-09-04 13:21:37 UTC
Not yet. But I really wasn't expect one until the end of the week anyways.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-09-06 22:16:32 UTC
A Soporific wrote:
You see, this is exactly why I need help. I haven't heard of any of these things. In fact, all this nuance and theory is way deeper than what I was considering doing myself.

All I managed to do was get in contact with the CCP Marketing department and actually propose an idea.

Ha, forget the nuance and theory and just have fun, mate.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#51 - 2012-09-08 10:51:56 UTC
Agree and disagree, Telegram Sam.

If you cannot derive pleasure from fictional writing, in whatever guise and form it comes in, forget it and pick another thing to occupy your life with.

The difference is being sat at the keyboard and realizing strange things are happening around you like; the lack of ambient light and, strange sounds emanating from your stomach. You gaze, briefly, at your watch; only to do a double-take that Groucho Marx would approve of, as you are confronted with the knowledge that you have been writing for 16 hours, and the Sun has gone down.

You boil water to feed coffee needs, and return to the keyboard - but forget about the coffee altogether and keep typing, because you want to see what happens next.

Writing is like reading; only, the pages are blank.

AK

This space for rent.

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#52 - 2012-09-11 13:25:43 UTC
Update?

What did CCP say?

This space for rent.

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-09-14 14:39:15 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:
Agree and disagree, Telegram Sam.

If you cannot derive pleasure from fictional writing, in whatever guise and form it comes in, forget it and pick another thing to occupy your life with.

The difference is being sat at the keyboard and realizing strange things are happening around you like; the lack of ambient light and, strange sounds emanating from your stomach. You gaze, briefly, at your watch; only to do a double-take that Groucho Marx would approve of, as you are confronted with the knowledge that you have been writing for 16 hours, and the Sun has gone down.

You boil water to feed coffee needs, and return to the keyboard - but forget about the coffee altogether and keep typing, because you want to see what happens next.

Writing is like reading; only, the pages are blank.

AK

Heh, you're a true writer AK. I know that experience of getting into "the zone," where the writing is just flowing, almost without your conscious effort. It's so real and so mysterious, the ancient Greeks had to attribute it to being under the influence of a spirit (one's Muse). Unfortunately anymore I don't have much uninterrupted time to succumb to the Muse for writing sessions. It's mostly with playing music, which allows one to more quickly go into and out of the zone.

If you have any writing you want to share, AK, post a link.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#54 - 2012-09-14 16:25:28 UTC
I'm writing a script for EVE, have been for a while.

I hit a bump in the road recently regarding a point of logic, wherein the Characters were making logical choices, but the scenario they were makin them in wasn't logical. I then bounced some ideas around on how fix it and sadly had to scrap 300 pages I wrote over a week, and, rethink the motivation and subsequent arc(s).

Like all good relationships, you need to htfu and let you partner talk, because I've always found there is underlining reasons for them talking, and it isn't always what they say.

Sometimes they just want to blow off steam, and then they can get back to more important matters, like torturing someone for information.

Issue this poses is the dialogue runs on and I dread the day when I'll have to cut mass amounts of dialogue out because the script will be 700 pages when it needs to be 90-120.

Writing is great though, and I remember when I finished my first spec script; I balled my eyes out and rolled around on the floor in a sobbing fit complete with running nose and itchy eyes.

Reason: the characters had told me their story, had bared their souls to me, and then it was time to say goodbye, forever, like a psychological birthing.

AK

This space for rent.

A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-09-14 21:01:59 UTC
Nothing yet. I'm going to resend if I haven't heard anything by Sunday.


Still, I find that when writing for a video the secret is keeping the story narrowly focused, like very focused. You can tell a very large story, but most of that has to be in the visual design, not in dialog. But, I tend to fail horribly at the visuals.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#56 - 2012-09-14 22:26:27 UTC
A Soporific wrote:
Nothing yet. I'm going to resend if I haven't heard anything by Sunday.


Still, I find that when writing for a video the secret is keeping the story narrowly focused, like very focused. You can tell a very large story, but most of that has to be in the visual design, not in dialog. But, I tend to fail horribly at the visuals.


Storyboards are always built after the script, even if the script amounts to no more than descriptions of shots, bookended by scene descriptions.

AK

This space for rent.

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