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High Sec Hauler Ganking
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Velicitia
XS Tech
#101 - 2012-08-15 16:23:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Tchulen wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:

My point here is that hauling safely is ridiculously hard hard for such as small cargo value as 210mil with medium sized volumes.


No, your point is it's ridiculously hard to haul AFK safely. You could have easily done it if you were actively flying the ship in any tech I hauler. For example, you could have used an Iteron V with 2 WCS and a bit of tank and still managed 12,000m3 easily.


.. and would still be insta popped by any Tornado that wanted to.


Wow! A tornado can output 15,000 alpha, can it?


Could you confirm this please Kal'Orellian. I find it amazing but will take your word for it if that is the case.


I can get 10,500 with 1400mm scouts, Republic Fleet EMP, and a full rack of T2 Gyrostabs...
Quake only gets me to a little under 11.8k (and puts me 4% over the PG of the ship)

I'm obviously doing it wrong Cool


edit -- implants will probably help ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-08-15 16:24:56 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
I dont think 200mil is an especially large amount. It is my opinion that you should be safe in hi sec with a cargo like that. Either by buffing haulers or making high sec ganking more expensive. Preferably both.

Orca.


Rinse and repeat... yes I know there are options for safe hauling but you shouldn't need to invest in this sort of ship in terms of isk and skills in order to move low volume cargo safely.

So basically, what you're doing is exactly the same miners are doing, "CCP I know there are things I can do to circumvent the problem we're having, but I don't want to spend the time or the energy to do so. Waaaaah."

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#103 - 2012-08-15 16:31:57 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:

I am not an EFT warrior, so no idea what sort of EHP you can put on an iterron. But I'd be very surprised if you can get this sort of tank on an Itty V and have much cargo room left. It would have to be passive as well as there is danger in the aling time even when actively piloting. On the one occassion I was got I was dead instantly after declaoking, I had obviously been passive scanned in the previous systems. Even if I had expected the hit I doubt I would have had time to activate hardeners.


Well, I can get just over 15k EHP on mine with a passive setup and 14,500m3 hold so it is possible to do what you've requested with a normal tech I hauler.

Personally, I've never hauled anything more expensive than 100mill in a tech I hauler though as I've always considered that to be a bit daft.

So, perhaps using a tech II hauler to haul stuff around is the "no dev time" answer here.

Mind you, I've just looked at my Badger II fit and that has passive 15k EHP and 20,687m3 hold so I guess you could use a Badger II. That's with full Expanded Cargo mods and cargo rigs so you could actually get that to get better defended.

So actually, you could use high end tech I haulers fitted sensibly or tech II haulers for added security.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#104 - 2012-08-15 16:32:46 UTC
Yes but without the Waaaah.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#105 - 2012-08-15 16:38:01 UTC
where are you flying your haulers? I would like blapping them all day long, just for tears.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-08-15 16:41:42 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Yes but without the Waaaah.

Au contraire. "You keep telling me I need to TANK MY SHIP?! WAAH I DON'T WANT TO!"

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Velicitia
XS Tech
#107 - 2012-08-15 16:53:44 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
where are you flying your haulers? I would like blapping them all day long, just for tears.



Have "Tear Bucket" will travel... Bear

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-08-15 16:59:52 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

So basically, what you're doing is exactly the same miners are doing, "CCP I know there are things I can do to circumvent the problem we're having, but I don't want to spend the time or the energy to do so. Waaaaah."


Can you blame him? It seems to work.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#109 - 2012-08-15 17:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Lord Zim wrote:

"CCP I know there are things I can do to circumvent the problem we're having, but I don't want to spend the time or the energy to do so. Waaaaah."

Kal'Orellian wrote:
Yes but without the Waaaah.


So you are saying you don't want to spend the time or the energy to tank your hauler or actively fly it when you have valuable cargo.

I think we have a conclusion to this thread folks. I for one am going to use a locator agent to find out where this paper thin pinata piloted by the unconscious is most of the time and I'm gunna whack it with a stick.

After all, being mean to stupid people is just mean but you, Kal'Orellian, are clearly not stupid. It isn't mean, however, to repeatedly kick someone who's being belligerent just for the sake of it, which you are being.

You've been given plenty of counters. Now you've admitted that you're just being a dikc about it I suggest you go and feel ashamed. Unless you're just being a troll, of course. In that case I expect you'll carry on trying to goad people.

EDITED because I couldn't spell belligerent
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-08-15 17:30:49 UTC
Let's think for a moment here - simply hauling more than what it costs to gank you doesn't make you a target. You have to be worth the opportunity cost as well. There's no "rampant" ganking of haulers suited to the task of hauling what they are hauling, outside of wardecs and grudge ganks.

That said, AFK hauling is only a viable option if you're hauling high-volume, low-value cargo. You should never have a viable option for AFK hauling high-volume, high-value cargo. As for your "argument" that it was previously safe to AFK haul in hisec, players were hardly as wealthy those days, and those who had some reason to move cargo worth ganking for took precautions to mitigate that possibility.

Let's put it this way - you're complaining that you can't safely AFK haul two citadel torp launchers. You can safely AFK haul that in an Orca. You can AFK haul that in Occator.

tl;dr: stop moaning about not wanting to play the game while still "getting ahead" in the game.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mag's
Azn Empire
#111 - 2012-08-15 17:42:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
I dont think 200mil is an especially large amount. It is my opinion that you should be safe in hi sec with a cargo like that. Either by buffing haulers or making high sec ganking more expensive. Preferably both.

Orca.


Rinse and repeat... yes I know there are options for safe hauling but you shouldn't need to invest in this sort of ship in terms of isk and skills in order to move low volume cargo safely.
But you already said you'd pay more for such a ship.

Kal'Orellian wrote:
I am arguing for them to look at bringing in a hauler with Battleship like EHP that could be afk flown through hi sec and couldnot be solo ganked. Should it cost more? Certainly.
This would be a new hauler, so therefore have new skills to train. Meaning you may as well train for the Orca, as it does the same job now and fits all the same requirements. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#112 - 2012-08-15 18:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal'Orellian
Thank you all for keeping me entertained for a day or so.

This was not my initial intent, my original intent was to have a serious discussion, however the sheer amount of attitude, hostility and negativity truly astounded me. Keeping myself entertained was in the end the only viable option.

Regards
Kal.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#113 - 2012-08-15 19:13:06 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Thank you all for keeping me entertained for a day or so.

This was not my initial intent, my original intent was to have a serious discussion, however the sheer amount of attitude, hostility and negativity truly astounded me. Keeping myself entertained was in the end the only viable option.

Regards
Kal.
People have given you options. Your attitude, hostility and negativity to those suggestion, are now your only issue. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#114 - 2012-08-15 19:29:12 UTC
Lets get one thing straight, the change to miners was not because of ganking... mostly.

Previously, other than the Mack for Ice, there was no reason to not fly a Hulk once you could.

Players have wanted this fixed for a while.


When tieracide started, it was obvious that miners would be fixed to become useful. And they have been. And it won't change much about the ganks, because dumb miners will still use untanked (or crappy single boost tanks) ships.

However, that brings up an interesting bit. What is going to happen to all of those Itties when they get hit with tieracide?
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-08-15 21:12:09 UTC
Dont let CCP sreegs know that you AFK haul in highsec, as that would be engaging in economic activity while away from keyboard. That's not how jersey johnson wants you playing the game!
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-08-15 21:13:38 UTC
Also if you think you're entitled to complete safety while AFK hauling billions in officer modules in your Badger Mk II you should probably go find another game to play.
Kitt JT
True North.
#117 - 2012-08-15 22:41:58 UTC
omg guys, i got ganked doing something i shouldn't have been doing, in a ship ill-suited to that purpose, with a terrible fit.

we should nerf the thing that killed me.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#118 - 2012-08-16 00:46:36 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Tchulen wrote:

quote=Kal'Orellian
My point here is that hauling safely is ridiculously hard hard for such as small cargo value as 210mil with medium sized volumes.
/quote

No, your point is it's ridiculously hard to haul AFK safely. You could have easily done it if you were actively flying the ship in any tech I hauler. For example, you could have used an Iteron V with 2 WCS and a bit of tank and still managed 12,000m3 easily.


.. and would still be insta popped by any Tornado that wanted to.


Wow! A tornado can output 15,000 alpha, can it?


Could you confirm this please Kal'Orellian. I find it amazing but will take your word for it if that is the case.


I can get 10,500 with 1400mm scouts, Republic Fleet EMP, and a full rack of T2 Gyrostabs...
Quake only gets me to a little under 11.8k (and puts me 4% over the PG of the ship)

I'm obviously doing it wrong Cool


edit -- implants will probably help ...


While you cant get 14k in EFT, EFT only provides an estimate... True damage varies significantly with turrets based on a random number generator.... if you examine the damage formula, a base alpha of 14k is about 20% likely, and an alpha of 15.8k is about 10% likely... The target's sig size, range, and transversal play a significant role in lowering these percentages, but tracking computers and target painters can also maximize them too!!!
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#119 - 2012-08-16 01:04:27 UTC
And the answer is of course, The Crane.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2012-08-16 01:16:13 UTC
high sec ganking was addressed in the insurance nerf. it is fine as is and does not need to be addressed further. if you cant transport your goods safely in high sec you're obviously doing it wrong.

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.