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High Sec Hauler Ganking
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Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#21 - 2012-08-14 14:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal'Orellian
Sarah Baal wrote:
dont mean anything really, since u have other good ships to gank aswell.

and, the gank thing is good as it is, if u want to prevent something dont autopilot and fit tank in your haulers, for some reason concord pops pilots in highsec, and suicide ganks is in game mechanics


I'm not saying that it shouldn't be in the mechanics, I'm saying that it is easier than it has been in the past and that as a result it is more prolific than in past times. I'm also saying that CCP saw this as an inbalance when they looked at the situation for miners and I'm asking them to look at the situation for haulers as well.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#22 - 2012-08-14 14:04:34 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Sarah Baal wrote:
dont mean anything really, since u have other good ships to gank aswell.

and, the gank thing is good as it is, if u want to prevent something dont autopilot and fit tank in your haulers, for some reason concord pops pilots in highsec, and suicide ganks is in game mechanics


I'm not saying that it shouldn't be in the mechanics, I'm saying that it is easier than it has been in the past and that as a result it is more prolific than in past times. I'm also saying that CCP saw this as an inbalance when they looked at the situation for miners and I'm asking them to look at the situation for haulers as well.


You are quite simply wrong about it being easier. Suicide ganking is significantly more expensive than it was in the past. If it is being done more, its because there are more foolish haulers carrying more isk than they should.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#23 - 2012-08-14 14:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal'Orellian
It used to be cheap, insurance payouts saw to that. People would use insured BS's to do ganks. CCP then nerfed insurance payouts as a result of higher instances of ganking. This made it more expensive and as a result ganking dropped off. Now with the introduction of Tier 3 battlecruisers it has gotten cheaper. Maybe not as cheap as it once was but still cheap enough to make it worthwhile.

If I am wrong, if it is not easier than it has been in the past then why is it more prolific now than any other time since m0o roamed high sec?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#24 - 2012-08-14 14:13:07 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
I
If I am wrong, if it is not easier than it has been in the past then why is it more prolfic now than any other time since m0o roamed high sec?


Do you have stats showing it is more common?
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#25 - 2012-08-14 14:15:22 UTC
Of course not, I'm sure CCP do though and I would love to see them. What I do have is many years experience to go by.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#26 - 2012-08-14 14:23:36 UTC
T1 haulers are cheap, and should be easy to alpha.

Orcas, freighters, transport ships, and battleships all offer alternatives for hauling high-value cargo.

Just like the miners, you have options.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#27 - 2012-08-14 14:26:18 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
And its not just afk haulers, I lost an Itty V some weeks ago to a Tornado and I wasn't even afk. I jumped into one system and was in my pod before I knew what had happened.


Keep Calm, and hold Gate Cloak.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#28 - 2012-08-14 14:34:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
use freighters if you dont like getting ganked by 1 tornado.
Haulers are for dirt cheap high volume sh*t (T1 loot, cap boosters, POS fuel, ore) - not for expensive goods excessing the hauler price by factor 300 or more.

Its like hauling fuggin gold bars openly in your bike basket through harlem, which sane dude would ever do such a thing? Get real, man. What the fukk are you thinking? seriously.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#29 - 2012-08-14 14:59:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal'Orellian
Robert Caldera wrote:
use freighters if you dont like getting ganked by 1 tornado.
Haulers are for dirt cheap high volume sh*t (T1 loot, cap boosters, POS fuel, ore) - not for expensive goods excessing the hauler price by factor 300 or more.

Its like hauling fuggin gold bars openly in your bike basket through harlem, which sane dude would ever do such a thing? Get real, man. What the fukk are you thinking? seriously.


As I said earlier in the thread I made a mistake, lesson learned and I no longer use an Itty V.

What I have also said is that current game mechanics make it too easy to suicide gank haulers, this does not just include T1 haulers, but also their T2 variants. Alpha strike of 8 x 1400mm II's is huge and unless you take precaustions that require your presense at the keybaord such as cloaking and activating hardeners and damage control you will die. There seems to be no option for reasonably safe afk hauling unless you train for an Orca or a freighter which seeing as my cargo does not exceed 20k volume on most occassions is pointless in my situation.

What I have also said is that the isk needed to be sacrificed to gank a hauler is too low. 75mil isk cost of a lost Tornado and a slap on the wrist from Concord by way of sec status hit is not a sufficient deterrent.

CCP saw the ganking of miners as a problem and acted by rebalancing mining vessels. I am arguing for them to look at bringing in a hauler with Battleship like EHP that could be afk flown through hi sec and couldnot be solo ganked. Should it cost more? Certainly.

Also please keep it light, this isn't COAD. I'm trying to hava friendly debate over something in the game mechanics I disagree with. If you don't like what I have to say then put up a coherent argument, keep your attitude to yourself.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-08-14 15:04:54 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:

CCP saw the ganking of miners as a problem and acted by rebalancing mining vessels. I am arguing for them to look at bringing in a hauler with Battleship like EHP that could be afk flown through hi sec and couldnot be solo ganked. Should it cost more? Certainly.


Oh, you mean like a freighter or an orca?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#31 - 2012-08-14 15:09:30 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
There seems to be no option for reasonably safe afk hauling unless you train for an Orca or a freighter which seeing as my cargo does not exceed 20k volume on most occassions is pointless in my situation.


If you are only hauling 20k you have room in your lows for dual tanking.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#32 - 2012-08-14 15:10:49 UTC
If I had a cargo sufficient to warrant an Orca I would get one, my cargo never exceeds 200-400 mil and is never more than 20k by volume. I'm calling for a buffed itteron something like the new Mackinaw miners have.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-08-14 15:13:43 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
If I had a cargo sufficient to warrant an Orca I would get one, my cargo never exceeds 200-400 mil and is never more than 20k by volume. I'm calling for a buffed itteron something like the new Mackinaw miners have.


So an Occator?
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#34 - 2012-08-14 15:13:55 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
There seems to be no option for reasonably safe afk hauling unless you train for an Orca or a freighter which seeing as my cargo does not exceed 20k volume on most occassions is pointless in my situation.


If you are only hauling 20k you have room in your lows for dual tanking.


Would this still be safe to afk haul, I doubt it.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#35 - 2012-08-14 15:15:13 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
If I had a cargo sufficient to warrant an Orca I would get one, my cargo never exceeds 200-400 mil and is never more than 20k by volume. I'm calling for a buffed itteron something like the new Mackinaw miners have.


So an Occator?


You wouldn't get that to battleship level EHP, still gankable unless you have active hardeners and damage control. No good for afk in that case.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#36 - 2012-08-14 15:20:13 UTC
What I would like is three tiers of T1 haulers,

Tier 1, small agile minimal cargo (entry level).
Tier 2, large cargo, plenty of lows and paper thin.
Tier 3, reasonable cargo, some expansion, BS level EHP - solo gank safe safe afk small scale hauler.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#37 - 2012-08-14 15:20:14 UTC
CCP already provide the tools for safe hauling, try using them.

No balance to ships, should be based on hauling AFK. Anyone hauling AFK, have no rights to complain when they diaf.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#38 - 2012-08-14 15:20:54 UTC
You dont need battleship level ehp.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#39 - 2012-08-14 15:22:37 UTC
Mag's wrote:
CCP already provide the tools for safe hauling, try using them.

No balance to ships, should be based on hauling AFK. Anyone hauling AFK, have no rights to complain when they diaf.


I agree that is the sitaution now, never used to be like that.

Some poeple play high sec because real life means that they cannot spend every second at the keyboard. CCP needs to cater for these people too.

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#40 - 2012-08-14 15:23:27 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Mag's wrote:
CCP already provide the tools for safe hauling, try using them.

No balance to ships, should be based on hauling AFK. Anyone hauling AFK, have no rights to complain when they diaf.


I agree that is the sitaution now, never used to be like that.

Some poeple play high sec because real life means that they cannot spend every second at the keyboard. CCP needs to cater for these people too.



So use red frog, haul less valuable cargo or use a better tanked ship.