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Invasions of privacy

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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#21 - 2012-08-14 06:55:07 UTC
I wouldn't mind seeing this argument tried on wormhole corps.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-08-14 06:57:07 UTC
And so does facebook and google and still ...

... you decide to disclose that information so what exactly is the problem?


"Back in the days" you would just use ICQ offline messages but i am not even sure ICQ still exists :p
Manar Detri
#23 - 2012-08-14 07:11:18 UTC
H1ghwayman wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
There's a checkbox when you make your API key that allows or disallows your mail to be read through the API key.

You are responsible for what information you allow people who possess your API keys to view.



You're missing the point... If it's "standard" to give full access everyone will require it... So if you want into any corp that's worth a damn you have to do what is "STANDARD" which means allow full invasions of privacy... CCP is the only group that can change this.. Mail access needs to no longer be possible.... It's the only way.

If someone is a spy they can use a different account and this access won't do any good anyways... This doesn't help. It only hurts peoples ability to enjoy the game. The types of people that demand this level of control are not the types of people it should be given too.... Yet narcissists always end up at the top because it's what they do naturally. They see a ladder, they must climb it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

^ Those are the people that demand it, use it, and hound players for who they talk to. They need to be declawed.... Please....


I don't think any of the nulsec alliance corporations require access to emails (atleast i've not bumped into any such). Usually it's just rights to see what characters on your account, and possibly skills.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#24 - 2012-08-14 07:55:17 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Make a private chat chan and *** cyber in there instead?



I demand an API then for accessing private chat channels so I can monitor them!
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-08-14 08:06:23 UTC
are you sure they're not just using the whole "my CEO reads my evemails" thing as an excuse?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#26 - 2012-08-14 08:10:24 UTC
Japanese Megacorporations, anyone? Blink

Seriously, though, you can forbid the spying... but no telling what the CEO or the HR people will say to that...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#27 - 2012-08-14 08:18:16 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing this argument tried on wormhole corps.


We're a special case. We haven't got no pricacy.

And even though our accounting systems require full api, no one has ever been disallowed to com. with any one.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#28 - 2012-08-14 08:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
H1ghwayman wrote:
I've had friends tell me they can't talk to me anymore because the heads of their corps are reading through their emails to make sure they're not doing anything they don't like... This is screwed up... I really think it's time that API keys went away or were limited so that it's not possible for emails and private conversations to be monitored. If it's possible it will be expected. If people don't enjoy the game because they have no privacy they may not continue playing. I think it's best for everyone if the controlling pricks that insist on invading everyone's privacy had that ability taken away. Let private conversations remain private for everyone...


Sooo... these corp leaders, that are reading the emails of their members, don't like what's being said between yourself and their members? Just what are you talking about with them?? *looks at corp name* An "escort service", eh? lol I see now.
Maybe your rates are too high? lol or they're jealous?

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#29 - 2012-08-14 09:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nirnias Stirrum
I joined a WH corp a few weeks ago and this is something i asked if it was "necessary" to include my mail as i had some personal info in some of the mails. I was told it was and that if i didn't include the mail in the API my application would be rejected.

Granted i thought it a bit crap, but i didn't come to the forum to cry about it, i deleted any mails that i deemed had a personal nature to either myself or other pilots, created a new API, waited 30 minutes for it to kick in then submitted my application.

If you have mail you don't want your corp reading, then simply delete it, unless your a spy i don't see how this is an "issue" for you or anyone else at all and your just crying for the sake of the attention you seem to not get.

Getting rid of being able to view other peoples mails is the stupidest thing you have said because it would just make spying way more easy for everyone. You say this is easily avoided by using alts for mails, so why don't you just go and use your alt for sending your mails.... works both ways but i bet your gunna cry that you shouldn't have to do that or some crap. Well the game shouldn't have to change because your a delicate little snowflake with deep insecurities about what the internet people that you have never met, never will meet or never have any conscious interaction with outside of pixels displayed on your screen, might think of you.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#30 - 2012-08-14 09:16:21 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
I joined a WH corp a few weeks ago and this is something i asked if it was "necessary" to include my mail as i had some personal info in some of the mails. I was told it was and that if i didn't include the mail in the API my application would be rejected.

Granted i thought it a bit crap, but i didn't come to the forum to cry about it, i deleted any mails that i deemed had a personal nature to either myself or other pilots, created a new API, waited 30 minutes for it to kick in then submitted my application.

If you have mail you don't want your corp reading, then simply delete it, unless your a spy i don't see how this is an "issue" for you or anyone else at all and your just crying for the sake of the attention you seem to not get.

Getting rid of being able to view other peoples mails is the stupidest thing you have said because it would just make spying way more easy for everyone. You say this is easily avoided by using alts for mails, so why don't you just go and use your alt for sending your mails.... works both ways but i bet your gunna cry that you shouldn't have to do that or some crap. Well the game shouldn't have to change because your a delicate little snowflake with deep insecurities about what people might think of you.


Again this is exactly why any corporate leadership that bothers reading emails clearly don't understand the mechanic. Its pointless because its easily circumvented. A spy is going to be careful not to use his Eve Mail to ensure he's not revealed, hence this does not work as a tool to avoid espionage at all. Hence as a corporate leader if your reading people's emails your pretty much just a nosy A-hole who deserves no ones loyalty.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#31 - 2012-08-14 09:16:31 UTC
Cede Forster wrote:
"Back in the days" you would just use ICQ offline messages but i am not even sure ICQ still exists :p
5-digit UIN user \o/

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Katalci
Kismesis
#32 - 2012-08-14 09:26:24 UTC
Chribba wrote:
While I am a noob on the subject of how people run their corps... but for some reason I don't get the feeling that this is a widespread problems as probably most pilots would dislike this "feature" and hence noone would be in the corps, sounds more like this is a corp run different from most others, in which case like many pointed out you will probably be more comfortable in another corp.

But then I don't know how most corps are run so...

/c

Actually, pretty much every decent corp requires recruits to submit the the full API keys of all accounts for deep trawling. Wallet logs, assets, evemails, etc. are all carefully reviewed. This is absolutely necessary to minimize the risk of accepting a spy into your corporation.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-08-14 09:32:00 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
The more I read it the more OP looks like a spy/thief. Why would talking to you be suspicious? Sounds like Solid C.E.O.'s to me.


Either that or he's a terrorist, or a pervert. Or a perverted terrorist. Perhaps even a communist.
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#34 - 2012-08-14 09:38:57 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
I joined a WH corp a few weeks ago and this is something i asked if it was "necessary" to include my mail as i had some personal info in some of the mails. I was told it was and that if i didn't include the mail in the API my application would be rejected.

Granted i thought it a bit crap, but i didn't come to the forum to cry about it, i deleted any mails that i deemed had a personal nature to either myself or other pilots, created a new API, waited 30 minutes for it to kick in then submitted my application.

If you have mail you don't want your corp reading, then simply delete it, unless your a spy i don't see how this is an "issue" for you or anyone else at all and your just crying for the sake of the attention you seem to not get.

Getting rid of being able to view other peoples mails is the stupidest thing you have said because it would just make spying way more easy for everyone. You say this is easily avoided by using alts for mails, so why don't you just go and use your alt for sending your mails.... works both ways but i bet your gunna cry that you shouldn't have to do that or some crap. Well the game shouldn't have to change because your a delicate little snowflake with deep insecurities about what people might think of you.


Again this is exactly why any corporate leadership that bothers reading emails clearly don't understand the mechanic. Its pointless because its easily circumvented. A spy is going to be careful not to use his Eve Mail to ensure he's not revealed, hence this does not work as a tool to avoid espionage at all. Hence as a corporate leader if your reading people's emails your pretty much just a nosy A-hole who deserves no ones loyalty.



Not true, its also a great way for corps to get info about enemy corps, when i was looking for a WH corp i sent out several applications, several of them emailed me back detailing their corp/alliance structure, who their friends were, what kind of fleets they run etc etc etc. When i joined my current corp they gleaned some useful information from my emails about other WH corps simply from the applications i sent to other corps before them.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-08-14 09:40:34 UTC
May i suggest you get 5 meters of string and two cans, it has been proven to be a very effective form of covert communication.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Pipa Porto
#36 - 2012-08-14 09:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Again this is exactly why any corporate leadership that bothers reading emails clearly don't understand the mechanic. Its pointless because its easily circumvented. A spy is going to be careful not to use his Eve Mail to ensure he's not revealed, hence this does not work as a tool to avoid espionage at all. Hence as a corporate leader if your reading people's emails your pretty much just a nosy A-hole who deserves no ones loyalty.


Then don't give your emails to your corp leader.

I read them when I run recruitment, because some spies/awoxers/thieves are exactly as lazy as the OP.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#37 - 2012-08-14 09:49:01 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Cede Forster wrote:
"Back in the days" you would just use ICQ offline messages but i am not even sure ICQ still exists :p
5-digit UIN user \o/


And I was feeling special beacuse mine is 8 digits. Now I'm :sadface:. :)

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#38 - 2012-08-14 09:59:56 UTC
Frankly I agree with OP. If people are willing to do it here how long before things like that become common practice RL. Freedom of speech and privacy rights have been fought over by previous generations and we shouldn't simply dismiss it as unimportant. You have recruiters, bosses checking your facebook and private life these days and drawing conclusions from it. You have to be available 24/7 on your cellphone in case your boss has a booboo. Our internet is being followed and recorded by google. Last year google(or was it apple) bailed itself out legally because their smartphones where recording and sending info about peoples whereabouts. Where does it end? Will our cell phone record what we say in a while? Be careful what rights you give up and which you don't.

But people saying he is free to leave his corp are right as well. Unfortunately that is harder to do RL. Do not forget we in Eve are being watched and studied by RL academics. Maybe they conclude it would work for RL as well. Just something to be wary about imo....

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-08-14 10:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
H1ghwayman wrote:
I've had friends tell me they can't talk to me anymore because the heads of their corps are reading through their emails to make sure they're not doing anything they don't like... This is screwed up... I really think it's time that API keys went away or were limited so that it's not possible for emails and private conversations to be monitored. If it's possible it will be expected. If people don't enjoy the game because they have no privacy they may not continue playing. I think it's best for everyone if the controlling pricks that insist on invading everyone's privacy had that ability taken away. Let private conversations remain private for everyone...



Don't ever let someone tell you to do what you don't want to silly padawan !!

Get out of there and join "normal" people, let paranoid scumbags fill holes in between them. But, if you have nothing to hide why would you bother with that?
I mean, it's not like if you were e-mailing your wife about your last love night and making plans for the next one with eve mail, is it? -if it is you're dumber than I thought.

Unless it's your CEO's wife? Lol then you get a +1000000000² from meh, others wife's are always the best women ever !!

brb
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#40 - 2012-08-14 10:06:33 UTC
Radius Prime wrote:
Frankly I agree with OP. If people are willing to do it here how long before things like that become common practice RL. Freedom of speech and privacy rights have been fought over by previous generations and we shouldn't simply dismiss it as unimportant. You have recruiters, bosses checking your facebook and private life these days and drawing conclusions from it. You have to be available 24/7 on your cellphone in case your boss has a booboo. Our internet is being followed and recorded by google. Last year google(or was it apple) bailed itself out legally because their smartphones where recording and sending info about peoples whereabouts. Where does it end? Will our cell phone record what we say in a while? Be careful what rights you give up and which you don't.

But people saying he is free to leave his corp are right as well. Unfortunately that is harder to do RL. Do not forget we in Eve are being watched and studied by RL academics. Maybe they conclude it would work for RL as well. Just something to be wary about imo....



Ugh that is common practise, it is used by companies to locate the most footfall of a populace in order to open businesses and make profits, place hospitals and other services. Dont want them knowing where you are? Turn off your GPS.. not that hard really.