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Why Off Grid booster nerf won't happen (ever) or won't be what you think

First post
Author
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-08-14 04:10:08 UTC
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
It will happen, once CCP figures out how to make on-grid-boosters viable while nerfing off-grid at the same time.


thats not a hard fix.

make it so links only effect ships on grid with them, and they cant be activated inside a pos bubble, and buff the warfare processor sub on tech 3s so they have a comparable or better tank than a CS. If you fit a proper tank to a CS they are already pretty damn hard to kill if you have enough logi to keep them alive.
Siarl Conwy
#22 - 2012-08-14 04:15:28 UTC
How would it affect Mining Fleet Boosters? You frequently get an Orca on Station or a Rorq in a bubble boosting for several wings of Miners and Industrials, any change to the mechanics would affect them as well.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-08-14 04:23:30 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
It will happen, once CCP figures out how to make on-grid-boosters viable while nerfing off-grid at the same time.


thats not a hard fix.

make it so links only effect ships on grid with them, and they cant be activated inside a pos bubble, and buff the warfare processor sub on tech 3s so they have a comparable or better tank than a CS. If you fit a proper tank to a CS they are already pretty damn hard to kill if you have enough logi to keep them alive.


Fair enough but they also recieve a shitload of heat while on grid and if you are to bring one in to combat it also needs to be useful outside of pure buffing. Without making them overpowered as combat vessels and so on.

Also, since when were CCP fast to make changes?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#24 - 2012-08-14 04:28:32 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
Making them ongrid would still be cooler.

Just learn to dualbox a bit better and you're fine


There are a lot of problems with making boosting on grid only. Let's think about them for a moment:
- On grid gang boosters is not an engaging experience. There's nothing to it except warping with the fleet and activating the gang mods when you land. What, you didn't think your 50 DPS mattered did you?
- On grid gang boosters makes blobbing even more effective when fighting smaller gangs. Where previously both sides would have an alt in a safe spot and things were somewhat fair, now only the blob has gang boosters.
- On grid boosters means that defensive gangs have an enormous advantage. They'll have boosters set up and running before the other guys even land.

Most of the e-rage around off grid gang boosters comes from people who were outmaneuvered and unable to successfully blob someone who was nominally "solo". While I agree that they were not truly solo, I also believe that there's a world of difference between flying in a 2 man gang and flying "solo" with a booster alt. You can see the same effect in the recent Alliance Tournament - the commentators could not STFU about how important it was to have more warm bodies on your team (regardless of what they were flying).

Anyway. I don't care if they change gang boosters to be on grid only. I've got CS5 on several characters and every PVP mindlink. But seriously, can we make the gaming experience a bit better before just nerfing things?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-08-14 05:01:59 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Alot of people whining about off grid boosters being OP and unfair, even though they have been around for a very long time. Lol

I don't think CCP is ready to pull the plug on off grid boosting, because the fact of the matter is ... There many accounts being plexed and paid for just so they can provide the boosts.

CCP is a business afterall and it isn't good for business to be making changes that will reduce their income. I for one don't really feel too strongly how this matter is resolved, but I will unsub my OGB toon if they remove off grid boosting. Thats $15 a month less income for CCP. I'm sure many other OGB alt owners feel the same.


You mean like they won't ban bots, since they're paying customers or they won't nerf datacore farming, since many people had datacore farming alt accounts and it had been around for a very long time? I'm sorry but your 15 dollars aren't any more important than anyone elses and if you think it buys you a nerf shield, you're delusional. CCP is making the best game they think they can and occasionally changing things just to keep the game interesting. Threats of account cancelation are heard with every major change to the game and are ignored unless they reach massive numbers. On the other hand well constructed counter arguments can change their minds every time.

Diesel47 wrote:
I have a reasonable solution though.

If I worked at CCP I would do the following:

1. No boosting inside a POS bubble (this is just downright unfair)

2. T3s can only boost for around 5 pilots or so, limiting their use to small gangs only. Buff to small gang warfare, which is never a bad thing. Unless you are a blobbing noob.

3. Fleet Command ships keep their 3% bonus, but also can give bonuses to the entire fleet. Maybe even buff their survivability a bit.


POS whiners are happy, Small gangs are happy, and command ship pilots can perform their role without T3s getting in the way. Unsubs are minimal, and gameplay/balance/whatever is fixed.


You just mostly ignored the entire issue and called it a day. The basic problem is that you shouldn't get such huge bonuses without putting your assets on the battlefield. You leave that problem unresolved and just address a side complaint. Why do you feel that small gang shouldn't have to bring their booster on the grid? Because if you max out the boosting bonuses, your survivability will be low and are at high risk of losing the ship? Worried you can't continue to AFK your booster alt, if you have to bring it to the battle? Isn't that how it should be and is with every other ship and fitting choice?

The obvious solution, if you're determined to keep off grid boosting in the game, is to apply the boost fully only on grid and with a severe reduction to off grid. Something like 100% effect on grid and 10% off grid. No longer can you provide massive off grid bonuses and you'll get to keep your off grid boosting, but bringing your booster to the battlefield provide an immense advantage over off grid boosting as it should.

The only real problem with removing off grid boosting is what to do with large fleet boosting, since most boosting ships can't withstand that kind of firepower. Other complaints are really non-issues or not specifically booster issues. The solution could be as simple as changing fleet boosting mechanics to allow multiple levels of redundancy in them, so multiple levels of boosters could be setup in advance and on the fly. As boosters start to die the system automatically moves down the list of boosters and notifies them with a icon on their screen, that they're the current fleet booster. That way you don't have to struggle with the problem of how to keep a single ship alive during a fleet battle. Boosters need to die just like logistics or any other support ship, but the game needs to support that by changing how setting up fleet boosters are handled.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#26 - 2012-08-14 05:45:34 UTC
Siarl Conwy wrote:
How would it affect Mining Fleet Boosters? You frequently get an Orca on Station or a Rorq in a bubble boosting for several wings of Miners and Industrials, any change to the mechanics would affect them as well.



Why should a ship give tangible benefits but sit behind an unsurpassable protection?

Makes no sense. If the targets want a buff, then the buff has to have a consequence and take risks to achieve it.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#27 - 2012-08-14 06:28:21 UTC
They need to swap the bonuses for the tech 3 and commandship. Tech 2 is supposed to specialize, while tech 3 is supposed to be generalized (so under this assumption vulture>tengu, but that's not the case). I trained for a vulture on my main but I decided to say f*ck that and got my alt into a tengu.

If you made this change it would really hurt tech 3 cruiser boosting and buff commandship boosting. Also, I want to fly my vulture again. Big smile
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#28 - 2012-08-14 06:48:22 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
They need to swap the bonuses for the tech 3 and commandship. Tech 2 is supposed to specialize, while tech 3 is supposed to be generalized (so under this assumption vulture>tengu, but that's not the case). I trained for a vulture on my main but I decided to say f*ck that and got my alt into a tengu.

If you made this change it would really hurt tech 3 cruiser boosting and buff commandship boosting. Also, I want to fly my vulture again. Big smile


Not only that.

We got 2 kinds of command ships (plus the omni-present T3 aka the hybrid outclassing the specialized classes).

A sensible change could be to completely remove offgrid boosting from the field command ships but leave limited off grid to the others.

Limited would mean:

- field command ship gives 100%.

- fleet command ship gives 100% if in grid. If they are offgrid their bonus gradually decreases till it completely stops at 1 AU away.

This would promote fleets having a specialized unit tasked to find those ships and go chase them, aka mini game in the game.
Lucie Lipps
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-08-14 06:50:09 UTC
You do know you can train for it too and have one as well right???


You fcking retards haha
Lexmana
#30 - 2012-08-14 07:31:46 UTC
Lucie Lipps wrote:
You do know you can train for it too and have one as well right???


You fcking retards haha

Only retards would think that broken mechanics available to all somehow makes them un-broken.
Nicholas Tong
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-08-14 07:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicholas Tong
With how grid manipulation mechanics work, on the hands of experimented players, they will always create some sort of grid dungeon to hide their boosters around, also gang boosts will be reliant on covert warp ins just so they don't fall in range of the the engagement, you'll even probably have to babysit the booster with logis, in my opinion just rework the boosting mechanics from the ground up, entitled gentlemen who already trained everything gain the benefit of trying out the overhaul with full skills.
Forum Harlot
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-08-14 07:59:35 UTC
I don't think the general idea behind point #2 is half-bad. It would mean the Command Ship class would be useful again without really nerfing anything above usefulness.
Pilna Vcelka
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-08-14 09:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Pilna Vcelka
ITT: OP used to operating OGB to gain unfair advantage over normal (= not multiboxing) players through broken mechanics threatening to ruin the game by not paying a breathtaking sum of $15.

OGB nerf will happen because there are way more players unhappy with the mechanic than those who want to keep it. Thus, CCP loses significantly more money in the long run if they dont fix it.

Plus, vast majority of alts is paid with PLEX. Less alts being paid with PLEX doesnt mean less money for CCP, it means existing PLEX supply will be redistributed among other players.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-08-14 10:11:16 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
A lot of thinking and decisions making at CCP's place from someone thinking he matters



Stop dreaming, eventually stop taking those things getting you high it might help to face reality: off grid boosting is going to change, and those changes you will not like them doesn't matter how much you dream.

Be reasonable, be a big boy and stop complaining. Lol

brb

Bucky O'Hair
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-08-14 10:48:56 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Alot of people whining about off grid boosters being OP and unfair, even though they have been around for a very long time. Lol

I don't think CCP is ready to pull the plug on off grid boosting, because the fact of the matter is ... There many accounts being plexed and paid for just so they can provide the boosts.

CCP is a business afterall and it isn't good for business to be making changes that will reduce their income. I for one don't really feel too strongly how this matter is resolved, but I will unsub my OGB toon if they remove off grid boosting. Thats $15 a month less income for CCP. I'm sure many other OGB alt owners feel the same.




I have a reasonable solution though.

If I worked at CCP I would do the following:

1. No boosting inside a POS bubble (this is just downright unfair)

2. T3s can only boost for around 5 pilots or so, limiting their use to small gangs only. Buff to small gang warfare, which is never a bad thing. Unless you are a blobbing noob.

3. Fleet Command ships keep their 3% bonus, but also can give bonuses to the entire fleet. Maybe even buff their survivability a bit.


POS whiners are happy, Small gangs are happy, and command ship pilots can perform their role without T3s getting in the way. Unsubs are minimal, and gameplay/balance/whatever is fixed.



I like your ideas, but your premise that CCP wont do anything about the problem is flawed. Or have you forgotten the 1500+ (I'm not sure what the current number is) of RMT accounts that have been banned. So, it is NOT a money issue, more likely a resource issue. I am sure they would love to fix this along with all the other things they have already fixed and are continuing to fix. It might make it into the upcoming patches, who knows.

[b]We Are Ushra'Khan!

We are coming for our people.[/b]

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-08-14 11:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
While it would be nice to see people actually flying all kind of command ships in combat (and in order to achieve that they must be able to do something other than just providing bonuses), it's impossible to deny that simply denying OGB will cost CCP quite a bit.

Unless it will be worth keeping both toons to play either of them from time to time (see "make command ships fun" part).

Personally, I doubt that plain disabling of OGB without doing related changes is what CCP is planning to do.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#37 - 2012-08-14 11:05:32 UTC
About T3 OP's idea I would more see the boosting limited to a squad than to an arbitrary number of five people, but except that I think you're right.

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Othran
Route One
#38 - 2012-08-14 11:13:59 UTC
The OP's post is better than the status quo but its not a great solution.

The fundamental problem is who in their right mind WANTS to fly a Fleet Command Ship or a "rainbow T3 booster"?

Its boring to say the very least. Yes we do it but nobody WANTS to do it.

Field Command Ships (some of them anyway) are fun to fly. I love Sleipnirs for example and frankly the Claymore isn't too shabby for solo work if you drop the links.

So when we're all trying to deal with some of the stupidity inherent in the current mechanics perhaps some of you could give some thought to what would actually make the ship fun. Fleet Command Ships anyway, the "rainbow T3 boosters" don't need any love Lol
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#39 - 2012-08-14 11:17:55 UTC
If the off-grid fix happens, I just put my OGB alt in a Damnation with Slaves and call her an OGB.

Tho limiting the T3 boosts to a squad sound like a better solution.

.

Jeanne Arceneaux
Proxima Fleet Systems
#40 - 2012-08-14 11:18:46 UTC
The only people who want OGB gone, are the people who dont have an OGB alt.

if CCP decide to nerf it 'to the ground' , then I want my booster alt compensated for the millions of SP that are now useless, or else I will simply unsub the account, and so will many others.