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[Discussion] - New POS system ( SAND CASTLES - Blackbuilt)

First post
Author
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-08-30 16:05:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Susiqueta Muir wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:


The question is: why should we prevent single individuals to have big star-bases if they can afford to? Isn't it fair? If he can build and he can feed, he can have it!! although it would be a hard task...


I personally look forward to the day when Chribba launches The Veld-star".. :)


That would be so awesome!!!!!
There should be a Chribba Statue on it! and a Big Veldspar anchored to it! ( Decorative Infrastructure ftw) !!!
Also it would be realy awesome to see his dread moored to it!!!
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#42 - 2012-08-30 19:57:40 UTC
So in general, CCP isn't interested in specific design proposals like this. They have game designers, and those folks want to prove that they are worth the RL ISK that CCP is paying them. If you have specific wants from the new POS system, those are far more useful to CCP.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#43 - 2012-08-30 20:40:47 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
yahh basically dont design something thats a ***** to use... if it takes less clicks to use than the current system thats good... if something isnt completely intuative to use right away then its not intuative at all and needs to be simplified - in that case it can have more clicks to use.

in terms of Security: there are systems out in RL that CCP can model that works very well (custom user groups)

example - processes tab in POS manage window. that needs a major overhaul so its not fiddily / aggravating to use / overly mind boggling.

im also in the mind that POS's are boring PvP when not POS gunned. that stems from the fact fleets tend to incap all offensive mods and then reinforce the POS.

very
linear
gameplay.

If guns dont incap and just die, when a POS is online and not incapped it can continually replace those guns (as long as it has guns to replace them) and a fleet will have to make a decision whether it kills the guns etc.. that come online until there are none left, or reinforce the POS under fire from the guns etc...

contracting an anchored POS to someone else would also be a cool touch.

so would allowing other people to POS gun, instead of just corpies with the roles and skills.



Edit: and as its not a specific type of design proposal, heres a brainstorm of a POS command and control system etc... and if ccp or anyone else wants to use any of it theyre welcome, (consider that a total release of author copyright)
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-08-30 23:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Two step wrote:
So in general, CCP isn't interested in specific design proposals like this. They have game designers, and those folks want to prove that they are worth the RL ISK that CCP is paying them. If you have specific wants from the new POS system, those are far more useful to CCP.


Yes, this is the Idea, I know that the Devs have the final word and know the best path to make things happen, and they will fallow their own proposals. I trowed this possible design, with the intention of it being used as a brainstorm for ideas regarding the development. I would be really glad if just a single line of this have a good use.

Thank you for reading it! I really appreciate!
Beezon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-09-03 07:33:53 UTC
I support the idea of POS improvements. They should offer some level of comfort and 'home feeling' to people who live in space.
Right now it looks like soap bubble with needle in the center and fleas around it.
Centurax
Quantum Express
#46 - 2012-09-11 13:52:18 UTC
With the Ideas Alx Warlord has suggested I think they are an excellent start,

I have discussed this topic with a few others over the last few weeks and the following ideas could improve Starbases even further. A lot of this is based on many years of experience with the old Starbase System, and how frustrating it can be, other ideas are just it would be cool if they it could do that.

Access:

Idea It would be helpful if the Starbases could also be better configured for Alliance use. But there are many other options that could be applied, such as Public Access if you want to use it as a sales office or provide services like refineries in systems that have none, or rent out factories and labs to non corporation or alliance members.

Idea It would also be a useful feature to Buy, Sell or Rent towers, having that feature would make new market for Pilots or Corporations that taken the time to grind Faction Standings to deploy these structures, and maybe benifit, from it by being able to Sell or rent towers to individuals, Corps or Alliances. Terms of contracts could include a specified amount of ISK per month to providing the POS fuel and ISK.

UI:

Idea The UI for towers needs a huge upgrade along with the structures, it would be helpful to remote view information on the structures status and see what is happening out at any tower being used by the corporation wherever it might be. Fuel levels being the main thing, the Calendar updates are good but tend not to be very reliable way of checking, more information in game would be helpful.

Structures:

Idea Maybe rather than having a large number of different arrays, maybe have a configurable structure, that maybe hides what is being run on the structure so you have to scan a tower to know what is going on there. For example you want to add a Lab to a structure, you might start by adding a Large Configurable Structure once that is added it could give you 3 slots to use and you place a Lab Module into it and then activate the Lab to use it. Different facilities/modules, might have different requrements for fitting.

Defence and Weapons Grids:

Idea First part of this will be to use the same weapons we currently use on ships, this will give a wider range of defence options to towers, and allow for better adaptation to where the tower is located.

Idea Weapons Grids would be set up in groups of 8 to 10 weapons, not necessary of the same type. Once grouped pilots with Starbase Defence Management skills could take control of up to 5 groups (numbers here are arbitrary and just how it could work). Weapons Grids could also have slots for ECM , Webs and Warp Scramblers etc..

Idea Drone Control, it might be interesting to have a small number drones available to either defend the tower, or just as remote rep the Starbase or friendly ships, or even use the new salvage drones to collect the wrecks of anyone who thinks it was a good idea to shoot the tower.

Idea Starbase Shield, Armor and Hull booster modules could be fun to make the lives of defenders easer.

Idea Subsystems, to make Starbases more of an tempting target in wars or for small fleets, is to allow attackers to target specific subsystems, like weapons, labs, factories or reactors.

Industry:

Idea Refineries and Reactors: Being able to deploy a refinery or reactor in high sec would be helpful, Being able to refine or process moon goo in Empire will not move it out of 0.0 or low sec completely if done correctly. With reactors simple solution is make the less efficient, so they run for 2hours instead of 1 per cycle, so in empire you have to run larger more expensive Starbases to get the same results. With refineries, in high sec , if you can deploy a tower there you already have a perfect refine somewhere in that corner of empire, so why no make them available. Also with a Starbase refinery make them work instantly, or if they have to have a significantly shorter processing time.

Jumpclone:

Idea Having a Clone facility on a Starbase even in WHs and Empire, it could increase the operativeness for combat which is probably the point here.


Other stuff

Idea Please, Please, let us have Starbase Jumpdrive and Cloaking, if nothing else.

Idea Starbase Accessories/customization, if we can fit items like solar panels to a Starbase then they should be practical, they should at least provide power to a tower, maybe even enough to power a small Starbase if there are a few attached.

Idea Also would be good to have Computer Centre Structure/Module to boost a Starbases CPU.








Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-09-11 15:35:51 UTC
Centurax wrote:

I have discussed this topic with a few others over the last few weeks and the following ideas could improve Starbases even further. A lot of this is based on many years of experience with the old Starbase System, and how frustrating it can be, other ideas are just it would be cool if they it could do that.


This is nice contribution!!!! I hope that some Devs are tracking this, because all Ideas you gave sounds awesome to me!!!!
Centurax
Quantum Express
#48 - 2012-09-12 19:16:29 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:

This is nice contribution!!!! I hope that some Devs are tracking this, because all Ideas you gave sounds awesome to me!!!!


Thanks



Forgot about this one Big smile

Industry:

Idea Labs and Factories: It would be helpful if the labs and factories came in blocks of 10, instead of the random mess we currently have. So you would buy ME, PE, Copying, Invention, Reverse Engineering, labs separably in blocks of 10, so you only get what you want and not waste a load of lab space. Factories would be the same you install blocks of 10, but they can be used to manufacture anything, rather than being specialized, as the current system is just messy to use at times, and build slots are at times insufficient to justify even buying that type of array. The main exception to the factories in the new system would probably be a separate super capital construction array.

Idea Hanger Arrays: it would good if the Starbase only had a Single, Corporation, Alliance or Personal hanger to store stuff, as the current system again is messy. The main idea for this would be if you add factories or labs to a Starbase, is that it gives a % bonus to the hanger array capacity, instead of adding another separate hanger which you will have to transfer stuff into to complete a job every time.

These changes would significantly speed up a lot of industry,
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#49 - 2012-09-13 00:03:35 UTC
I'm sorry, I don't think I properly read this the first time. What?


..that's about the worst idea I've ever heard. I can't believe you put that much effort into it. Sure, it's just my view, but it's worth something to someone.

I think I saw modular pos and thought, "Hey, there's that thread that got posted in my thread about a similar subject, which was followed by the poster telling me to **** of or something and stop stealing ideas, or about that anyway." Then I went, "whatever, it's what people want I guess;" "that much was obvious from the last time I posted on the subject."

So yeah, I didn't read it until just now, and having read the first 3 lines of the first paragraph and quickly skimmed through the next six, and noticed the next seven to 10 while observing the new pages and headers and titles, I have just concluded that you wasted a lot of time.

This is not Minecraft. I don't want it to be Minecraft. I don't even play Minecraft; I wouldn't waste that much time on something so senseless.

That being said and lego aside, I like the idea of modular POS, and I like the idea of Starbases and Starbase construction, and I like customization and the ability to configure things. This is why I like Tech 3s, even if I haven't played with them in awhile.

It's just that lego and stackable components seems like a very bad idea.
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Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-09-13 04:59:22 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
It's just that lego and stackable components seems like a very bad idea.


Despite of your: "TL;DR it sux" I will answer your point.

Minecraft and lego have allot of lovers, because it is a kind of game that let the imagination flow, allowing you to create something that you can say that came from you and it is unique! And this is a feeling that allot of people seek, making this 2 games really popular. So it is a market that CCP can explore, i'm sure that many will love this. Also this is the level of freedom that EVE needs for the POS construction, because it will make every POS unique, looking different, ( actually all look like soap bubbles).

If you think that this is too boring, ok, corp and pos management is not for you. Becouse if you ever put an Large POS operational you would know how difficult is to set all buildings in the right place, all guns in the right pattern, fuel it, put ammunition on every gun, and then set the roles. How manny posses did you had?

Keep in mind that the EVE biggest value does not simply lay on the Spaceship PVP, there are lots of different things in the sandbox that make it unique and all players find a different way to play his game. And even if you don't want, I bet there will be someone in you corporation that will want to spend some time to build the corp "castle" in a way it will look good. There is always someone to do this on good corporations ( in mine people would fight for this right ). like there are people who loves PI, or exploration, or Industry, or market, these are all different games inside eve.

Also, this is all ideas, and all ideas that are post in this forum belongs to CCP, ( so, steeling ideas inside the forum simply does not exist ). CCP is free to use them or not, this is why I spent so much time thinking and posting here, this is a chance to make a small contribution with one, or part of an Idea.

obs: I goot good feedback on this by evemail, so it totaly worth it Lol
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#51 - 2012-09-13 12:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
I would like to have my small asteroid and some structures added to it. There I could park my ship and keep stuff. Optionally i could add raffinery where people could refine ore, medical facility to keep clones, laboratory to make drugs. Also i would like to go inside it and watch people working there, i could give them orders and feel like a baws with cigar bigger than my... never mind, I don't like cigars.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#52 - 2012-09-13 12:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-09-23 00:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
And about the clone facility? Perfect for WH?

the POS cloaking device?
How about this and a device like a sov blocade unit that after 6 hours uncloaks the whole system!?

the pos jump drive? what you guys think about?
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#54 - 2012-09-23 07:04:17 UTC
A nice refreshing topic about starbases for a change.

Enjoyed your take on it, but I do have some food for thought. What about a docking bay module specifically for capital ships (i.e. Freighters) that would allow easy mooring to tower modules and transfer of goods in and out of modules without the crappy design oversight when it comes to freighters and tower modules and error messages. I noticed you did it for industrial ships here and there, just slightly worried this manifestation is focusing on sub-cap pilots only...


Thumbs up to everything else tho

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-09-25 22:31:46 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
A nice refreshing topic about starbases for a change.

Enjoyed your take on it, but I do have some food for thought. What about a docking bay module specifically for capital ships (i.e. Freighters) that would allow easy mooring to tower modules and transfer of goods in and out of modules without the crappy design oversight when it comes to freighters and tower modules and error messages. I noticed you did it for industrial ships here and there, just slightly worried this manifestation is focusing on sub-cap pilots only...


Thumbs up to everything else tho


Thx for your comment Assuka, I did did some changes based in your comment.

There should be different sizes of docking arrays and also different sizes of mooring arrays.

Mooring a freighter to a capital mooring array will be the easiest way to interact to the starbase, you will not need to worry about space in this option, the ship vollume will not count in the hangar. Also, if you enter the starbase with your character using this function, (leave ship), or change ship, the ship will continue moored with no pilot. (in this point there should be some role management to allow access to the moored ships.

If you want to dock a capital ship into it, (to hide it) you would need a proper size entrance, and also some space for the ship in the hangar, but this will not be a big problem too. The main difference between the 2 options will be the cost. A mooring array should be way less expensive then a complete set of entrance + ship storage upgrades. but the docking system should be more compact, and if you are planning to dock a large amount of capitals in it, is the best option.
Luc Chastot
#56 - 2012-09-25 22:59:48 UTC
I really like the idea, or most of it at least.

Expect starbases shaped like... yeah.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Tasadare
Blue Sun.
French ConneXion.
#57 - 2012-09-30 07:30:48 UTC
I'm supporting most of your idea. CCP really need to improved and take time on POS ASAP. They are a huge part of the game and excepted for fuels, they haven't been honenstly revamp at all. They can add a lot fo contents for POS and they need to update it, spceially for Planetary Interaction.

They could even make PI available for moons with a Control Tower, why not?

I'm probably one of the biggest fans of PI and I think your idea are great. CCP just need to revamp their POS system and keep them linked with moon and planet. Not only for easy income who's moon mining actually.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-10-05 00:19:25 UTC
A new POS system would have a big positive impact on EVE economy, keeping in mind that if you allow for the industrial players to build POS into real INDUSTRIAL COMPOUNDS, you can take these to deep nullsec or WH-Space, making these BASES for local development where people could actually live, people will start calling them home.

As you make these Starbases a structure that can be upgraded constantly (endless growth possibility) you would create a huge resources sink, so big alliances could build real CAPITAL STARBASES, that would demand a constant industrial effort over them, making the industrial player meaningful for them.

The capital starbase, would also drawn allot of attention as a target. being a real PVP meaningful target. more then any outpost, and people would really fight for them. (Although the outpost would still be a safer option. but less efficient for industrials)

Small corps would also have the corporation main starbase where corp players would gather, what would be realy god for rolleplay.

Is there something bad that can come from it?
Ridic Poison
Anomalous Existence
Initiative Mercenaries
#59 - 2012-10-06 14:36:23 UTC
Okay while reading this i came up with a interesting idea to replace the bubble around pos now. if i you build the pos in a bubble shape if you at in side the structure it will prevent lock for outside of it but it does not stop people for warping in and attacking you. Be atleast a place were you are a little bit safer.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-10-07 06:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Ridic Poison wrote:
Okay while reading this i came up with a interesting idea to replace the bubble around pos now. if i you build the pos in a bubble shape if you at in side the structure it will prevent lock for outside of it but it does not stop people for warping in and attacking you. Be atleast a place were you are a little bit safer.


Possibly the Shape of the Starbase would be of great influence on combat mechanics around it. What would create allot of new strategies. So a Starbase Entrance that is surrounded by other structures and collidable objects have a chance to create a safer area for players Undock/Dock and prevent cloaked ships to get close to certainly areas of the POS. Although a bad designed entrance could cause ships to collide on exit, making it hard to leave the POS, what is not a good experience....

But IF the starbase count as a big collidable object, or if there are some restrictions on the docking area requirement, these strategies would not be possible.... but this is up to ccp to decide.

I like your Idea of a complex geometry for colision, these would give chance of awesome designs...