These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

Wardec Responsibilities - A Practical Example

Author
Vyl Vit
#41 - 2011-09-26 07:11:45 UTC
Oh please. Need I remind you? It takes an intelligent person to do something stupid. If a stupid person does something stupid, he/she is just being "normal."

Apply this simple truth to CCP. Add to that; smart, and intelligent aren't the same things. A person not as intelligent as another can be a lot smarter. Intelligence is merely a potential.

Since we're talking about CCP here, you can drop the intelligence, and smart things there. CCP's problem is their game has grown past their comprehension on a fundamental level. They're just being "normal."

This public service message has been brought to you by The Intelligence/Stupidity Conundrum Study Society. All rights reserved. Please direct all comments to Tippia since my mailbox is full and I'm too lazy to empty it.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Steph Wing
No Dukks Given
#42 - 2011-09-26 07:52:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Steph Wing
As a TGRAD member and Uni alum, I'd be thoroughly dismayed if any of the accusations levelled in this blog were true.

But if Kelduum says they're not, I'm inclined to take his word for it.
Darian Reymont
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-09-26 09:50:23 UTC
This past week I have watched as miscommunication and false assumption conspired to ruin what was proving to be an enjoyable event. I rarely reply in these threads because Poetic sets them up specifically to misrepresent the facts and twist the truth, but given that it was miscommunication that spawned the issues outlined in this thread, it seems only fair that I at least attempt to clarify the situation.

First off I can say without question that I hold no anger or resentment towards RvB for their actions. It is my opinion that if we did not want the POS shot at, we should have taken it down. Not only did we not do so, but we specifically set up the POS to be as annoying as possible for whomever attacked it. Given the same opportunity in reverse, I would have certainly attacked a RvB POS, and do not blame them one iota for attacking ours. Likewise, I do not blame Kelduum for retracting the wardec as a result, as it was the most assured method of protecting our assets. Protecting your assets is not a crime.

I love RvB and what they do, and genuinely thank them for all their efforts in making the past week or so incredibly exciting and enjoyable for all our members. We would have loved to have taken the fight to their turf more often, but they were not the only group we were at war with. Hopefully we can build on this event in the future and avoid a repeat of the same issues.

With regards to the new decshield, as far as I am aware, we submitted a new idea for it to CCP in May of this year requesting clarification on whether or not it would be considered an exploit. The primary goal was to discourage the sort of frivolous wardecs we had been experiencing at the time. Contrary to what you may have heard, we do not want to be immune to wardecs, and hoped the new decshield would mean only those who intended to fight would bother paying the inflated fee (this has had mixed results). This idea was viewed by a senior GM and we were told it was not an exploit. If this represents a reversal in CCP policy, which the link provided earlier seems to indicate, that had little to do with us beyond the fact that we asked the question.

Former E-UNI Director, station pilot and snoob. https://twitter.com//DarianReymont

Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#44 - 2011-09-26 16:37:31 UTC
This is why you make wars mutual.

/thread
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-09-26 17:03:56 UTC
Darian Reymont wrote:
I do not blame Kelduum for retracting the wardec as a result, as it was the most assured method of protecting our assets. Protecting your assets is not a crime.

Retracting the wardec was the right thing to do to protect the POS. What got under my skin were many of the Unista accusations that RvB had engaged in dirty tricks and underhanded play. Even from Kelduum, who suggested that RvB should have informed him that they were going to attack the POS. (When Silentbrick decided to put up an SBU in Russian sov space a couple months ago, did he inform the russkies of his intentions beforehand?)

RvB did nothing wrong, and used the Uni's allegiance to Chribba to their advantage. It was a tactical and strategic coup. They should be congratulated, not castigated.

And we all frame our arguments to serve our message. I do it. You do it. Kelduum does it. I backed up my framing with actual quotes. So, whereas you might not have liked how I framed the message, the message itself wasn't inaccurate.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#46 - 2011-09-26 23:33:42 UTC
Update time:

We had a fleet out, got no activity, went to Chribba-Land, and POS got bashed then. End result: Someone thinks they are being sneaky, even though we'd had a load of fun. Wars are pulled, wartarget people start posting garbage and spamming in E-UNI channels. Very easy to come to a conclusion there, but all the actions (including the spamming) are down to lack of information.

This could easily have been avoided with a "We're coming for the POS!" communication of some kind - no it wouldn't have been 'realistic', but it would have been in the spirit of the previous days of enjoyable PvP, and apparently the reason we didn't see anything at the expected time was that there were some problem forming the joint-op fleet and getting everyone together.


RvB are blue from the Uni once again, and I think the stuff posted on our forums should deal with any E-UNI members who dislike them - after speaking to them, its clear that no hostility was intended, and everything should be back to normal - as is normal, a lack of communication and a few people being annoying reflect badly on the group as a whole.

And, after speaking to The PitBoss again, The 0rphanage have another wardec from us - in the last week between them and RvB we have had more PvP than the last year of wars, and far more fun, and the killboard was starting to get quiet again.


Also, pro-tip: Wars can still be 'retracted' if mutual - mutual just means 'no bills'.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2011-09-26 23:58:33 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Poetic is a massive troll and attention ***** who's only goal now seems to be to try and make things up and mis-quote people simply to drive traffic to his failed blog

This is really everything you need to take away from this thread.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Vogar Eol
New Order Logistics.
#48 - 2011-09-28 05:16:08 UTC
Is it okay to create a "decshield" for your personal research corporation? Taking down and reanchoring POS's is a bother. How exactly does E-Uni do it? Their CEO mentioned changing tactics on how the "decshield" works. Are they making the wars mutal so they do not have to pay a dime, while still driving up dec costs?

If this has been properly petitioned and is considered a feature, I too am interested.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2011-09-28 06:07:32 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
stuff

You are pretty amazingly bitter and clingy, gj.
AnkaD
Simply Terribad
#50 - 2011-09-28 06:58:29 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Darian Reymont wrote:
I do not blame Kelduum for retracting the wardec as a result, as it was the most assured method of protecting our assets. Protecting your assets is not a crime.

Retracting the wardec was the right thing to do to protect the POS. What got under my skin were many of the Unista accusations that RvB had engaged in dirty tricks and underhanded play. Even from Kelduum, who suggested that RvB should have informed him that they were going to attack the POS. (When Silentbrick decided to put up an SBU in Russian sov space a couple months ago, did he inform the russkies of his intentions beforehand?)

RvB did nothing wrong, and used the Uni's allegiance to Chribba to their advantage. It was a tactical and strategic coup. They should be congratulated, not castigated.

And we all frame our arguments to serve our message. I do it. You do it. Kelduum does it. I backed up my framing with actual quotes. So, whereas you might not have liked how I framed the message, the message itself wasn't inaccurate.


I am not in any form of command of RvB but I participated in all 3 major fleet ops (okay 100 man fleets may not be major in nullsec but in hisec they are quite uncommon) and if I am not totally mistaken we didn't specifically wait for E-Uni to go to help Chribba. It just happened. Formup of the 0rphanage took longer than expected and so the E-Uni fleet was gone when we were ready to move. It was sad that we didn't get an epic fight this day but I think theer are very little hurt feelings on this particular incident on both sides. Even that the war dec has been cancelled is understandable after the first frustration of having spend hours shooting something without being able to explode it later.
The home defense blob on the other hand annoyed me a bit because it exactly moved up to Hek every 2-3 hours and no further. I know of one fleet coming to our space which was sadly during one of our weakest time periods. So there was another fight that didn't come true. Sunday and Tuesday on the other hand were great fun blog *whistles* and hunting unsitas all over hi-sec was entertaining too.
I just hope that we can repeat this wardec at one time maybe if it is only us E-Uni will move out of the aldrat pocket more often.
Cayrenne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-09-28 07:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Cayrenne
Vogar Eol wrote:
Is it okay to create a "decshield" for your personal research corporation? Taking down and reanchoring POS's is a bother. How exactly does E-Uni do it? Their CEO mentioned changing tactics on how the "decshield" works. Are they making the wars mutal so they do not have to pay a dime, while still driving up dec costs?

If this has been properly petitioned and is considered a feature, I too am interested.


When a war is made mutual, it won't be taken into account anymore for the calculation of the subsequent wardec fee. Thusly, the way you do it is to create a "decshield" corp and have it declare war per usual to the main corp, paying regular wardec fee every week . This way, if you get wardecced by an actual hostile corp, they will have to pay more, but subsequently, your weekly dec fee payment that must be paid by the decshield corp is also increased until the actual wardec from the hostile corps cease.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-09-29 03:57:48 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
RvB are blue from the Uni once again.
Exceptionally petty that you reset their standings in the first place.
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#53 - 2011-09-29 05:29:20 UTC
I don't care about most of this thread, but I would like to get clarification from CCP if the "decshield" is in fact an exploit. I was under the impression that it was indeed considered an exploit.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2011-09-29 05:38:22 UTC
JackStraw56 wrote:
I don't care about most of this thread, but I would like to get clarification from CCP if the "decshield" is in fact an exploit. I was under the impression that it was indeed considered an exploit.


If you don't control over 1000 subscriptions to EVE (aka have ccp's nuts in a sling), then it is an exploit. Look into getting more accounts than your paultry 2~anythinglessthanoverathousand.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#55 - 2011-09-30 05:53:56 UTC
At this point, I'm just trying to figure out who is the more bitter person- Poetic and his grudge against Eve Uni or Damar and his grudge against the Gallente militia.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-09-30 10:56:20 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
At this point, I'm just trying to figure out who is the more bitter person- Poetic and his grudge against Eve Uni or Damar and his grudge against the Gallente militia.



Poetic is pretty simple to understand.

The uni is a BASIC training corporation.

The rules are for newbies coming into the game, or returnees, that need to learn this game. These rules are there to protect them and to enable the institution, as a whole, to properly train them.

Train them for what? To get the hell out of the uni and find a corporation to join that fits with whatever direction they choose to follow in the game.

It is not here for experienced players - those, like myself, either need to help out or get out. It is here to help new players but to actually HELP them - not force-feed any given path nor direction upon them. They choose the pace at which they advance and only the topics they find of interest from the training programs that are offered.

As such it is a polite institution with a warm friendly environment. VERY comfortable for many being as nobody forces them to do anything.

Well, "baby rules" and topics eventually chafe.

The player outgrows "D-Scan 101", "fleet ops 101", etc. Those players LIKE the social environment and want to stay in the uni but they want the university to CHANGE - to fit THEIR idea of how things should be and keep teaching them, "advancing with them" and that **** isn't gonna happen. The focus is on new people - not more experienced ones and that will remain the focus.

When they figure out that things won't change and that it's getting damned uncomfortable being in a place designed for 2 month old chars.. Some get pissed-off.

Welcome to what's up with Poetic.

They, like THOUSANDS of others, out grew the uni. They like HUNDREDS of others detest that idea. Unlike those hundreds of others, Poetic is throwing a tantrum and screaming fit in blogs and on these forums. (annoying as hell but... Others have come close to this before.)

When someone outgrows something they really like, it can be painful to admit it and move on but that is necessary. The university cannot offer fully comprehensive training in all aspects of EVE but we CAN provide well rounded coverage of the basics and that is what is done.

As I said - pretty easy to understand if explained a bit.
Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#57 - 2011-09-30 15:09:15 UTC
I tried... I seriously tried to read this thread and take this topic seriously but failed and fell out of my chair laughing XD

So Basically this is a troll pissing into the wind and E-Uni brought an umbrella right?
In the grand scheme of things... You're all pubbies. So HTFU.   "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood Blues
Previous page123