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Wardec Responsibilities - A Practical Example
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Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-25 18:10:08 UTC
RvB versus EVE University. The honourable versus the dishonourable.

http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/09/eve-universitys-no-sop-month-rvb-tears.html

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2011-09-25 18:23:46 UTC
Who the **** cares about “honour” and “responsibilities”…

The real meat is this little passage: “The University has re-implemented its decshield (if you want people to wardec the Uni, why make it more expensive for them?)”… That's quite a harsh accusation to make. If it's true, why don't they just get the Uni leadership banned?
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-09-25 18:32:10 UTC
Hai guys, let's dec this corp, then whine about how they fight back with every tactical advantage they have. Then whine about it some more and ban them from our comms.
Myxx
The Scope
#4 - 2011-09-25 18:34:38 UTC
if all of this is true, its kind of sad.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#5 - 2011-09-25 18:40:16 UTC
What is the TL;DR?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-09-25 18:46:57 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What is the TL;DR?

RvB beats up Eve Uni. Eve Uni cries foul -- claims RvB has no honour. Eve Uni takes ball and stomps off home.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2011-09-25 18:49:09 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What is the TL;DR?
RvB beats up Eve Uni. Eve Uni cries foul -- claims RvB has no honour. Eve Uni takes ball and stomps off home.
…and is then accused of using 'sploits.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#8 - 2011-09-25 19:06:11 UTC
Myxx wrote:
if all of this is true, its kind of sad.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-09-25 19:17:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What is the TL;DR?
RvB beats up Eve Uni. Eve Uni cries foul -- claims RvB has no honour. Eve Uni takes ball and stomps off home.
…and is then accused of using 'sploits.

Err. A decshield isn't an exploit. The Uni has been using a 2 corporation decshield for the last year. Just seems dumb to use that decshield during a month when you want war declarations (granted they weren't using it during the first week, but it seems to be back in use.)
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-09-25 19:21:26 UTC
Pretty much everything I have ever read about wardecs has convinced me that staying in the starter NPC corp is the right decision.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#11 - 2011-09-25 19:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What is the TL;DR?
RvB beats up Eve Uni. Eve Uni cries foul -- claims RvB has no honour. Eve Uni takes ball and stomps off home.
…and is then accused of using 'sploits.

Err. A decshield isn't an exploit. The Uni has been using a 2 corporation decshield for the last year. Just seems dumb to use that decshield during a month when you want war declarations (granted they weren't using it during the first week, but it seems to be back in use.)


If my understanding of what a "decshield" actually is then it is a exploit or at least should be. If it means they have alt corps thats sole reason is to dec them to raise the price of war decs against them.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
I'thari
#12 - 2011-09-25 19:53:14 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What is the TL;DR?
RvB beats up Eve Uni. Eve Uni cries foul -- claims RvB has no honour. Eve Uni takes ball and stomps off home.
…and is then accused of using 'sploits.

Err. A decshield isn't an exploit. The Uni has been using a 2 corporation decshield for the last year. Just seems dumb to use that decshield during a month when you want war declarations (granted they weren't using it during the first week, but it seems to be back in use.)

It is, actually, an exploit if you wardec your own corp for a sole purpose of increasing wardec costs vs your corp.

Disclaimer:

Every single character used in this post is a work of fiction. Any similarities with real-world alphabet, or - god forbid - language is purely unintnetional!
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#13 - 2011-09-25 19:59:53 UTC
If thats the case thats a horrible decision on CCPs part. It also shows just how flawed and ****** the whole war dec system is.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-09-25 20:04:29 UTC
Myxx wrote:
if all of this is true, its kind of sad.

It is. All the quotes are on their forums.

(Unfortunately, my links may not be perfect. Since I too am banned from the EVE University websites, I'm trying to get the original links while using various web proxies. At any rate, all the quotes I list are in that one forum thread between pages 42 and 45. Hopefully the Uni doesn't see fit to remove that thread. They might.)
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#15 - 2011-09-25 22:11:00 UTC
A few of things:

- The "DecShield thing" was never declared an exploit - there were other factors involved in the earlier ones which have have been, which I wont go into. In fact, GMs on many cases have stated that you can declare war for any reason, and there is no need to fight. Right now, we have a bunch of wars (7 or 8 off the top of my head) and we're

- I'm, not aware of CCP changing their policy for anything, and they certainly haven't spoken to me about any policy changes - the difference recently (which is actually less than 6 months, not a year) is that I laid out a way where everything is paid for, and asked them to confirm that its ok.

- Poetic is a massive troll and attention whore who's only goal now seems to be to try and make things up and mis-quote people simply to drive traffic to his failed blog - this is quite amusing as a recent EN24 story which fell for some trolling was attacked by him for accepting made up information and mis-quotes as truth. My guess is he misses the attention, and is getting close to being a stalker, just check his previous posts and you should be able to see why he was removed.

As CCP has posted a few times in his threads, if you need to question CCP policies or actions, just file a petition.
mkint
#16 - 2011-09-25 22:26:23 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
A few of things:

- The "DecShield thing" was never declared an exploit - there were other factors involved in the earlier ones which have have been, which I wont go into. In fact, GMs on many cases have stated that you can declare war for any reason, and there is no need to fight. Right now, we have a bunch of wars (7 or 8 off the top of my head) and we're

- I'm, not aware of CCP changing their policy for anything, and they certainly haven't spoken to me about any policy changes - the difference recently (which is actually less than 6 months, not a year) is that I laid out a way where everything is paid for, and asked them to confirm that its ok.

- Poetic is a massive troll and attention ***** who's only goal now seems to be to try and make things up and mis-quote people simply to drive traffic to his failed blog - this is quite amusing as a recent EN24 story which fell for some trolling was attacked by him for accepting made up information and mis-quotes as truth. My guess is he misses the attention, and is getting close to being a stalker, just check his previous posts and you should be able to see why he was removed.

As CCP has posted a few times in his threads, if you need to question CCP policies or actions, just file a petition.


So... are you saying you didn't wardec a corp, complain that they didn't come to find you, then get all pissed off when they attacked your POS without notifying you in triplicate? I have nothing for or against your corp/alliance, but I think this is an interesting enough topic to get IC coverage. You IVY guys try to manipulate the IC propaganda in your favor all the time, but this is the first time I've heard about how you actually conduct yourselves in war (especially as unprovoked aggressors.)

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#17 - 2011-09-25 22:28:11 UTC
Oh, and actual tl;dr while I'm here:

E-UNI decs RvB and ADOPT, some people dec E-UNI. Much fun is had, with many many explosions and something like 30 billion ISK in total kills so far.

RvB, ADOPT and some others decide to bash the Uni POS to provoke a massive fight, but take ages to get organised, suggesting it has been cancelled, and E-UNI then takes the fleet and everyone they can get to go help Chribba instead.

POS gets bashed, not knowing what the intentions are, and unable to contact anyone, E-UNI retracts wars. POS is repaired back to 100% in 38 min, and >200 members get live class on POS mechanics.

After finding out what was going on, E-UNI still <3 RvB and ADOPT, despite them not letting us know what the intention was and taking ages to form their fleet, and will arrange more pew-pew with them later on.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-09-25 22:28:38 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Poetic is a massive troll and attention ***** who's only goal now seems to be to try and make things up and mis-quote people.

Who did I misquote? All the quotes were complete copy-pastes. While the links themselves may not bring you straight to the post in question (due to me using a web proxy to get to the forums), those quotes are all in that thread between pages 42 and 45.

I don't believe I misrepresented anything. Feel free to explain where my reading of Twitter and your forums is incorrect.

Here are some other good blog posts that Kelduum would no doubt qualify as trolls and attention whoring, simply because they criticise his University. It is his job to defend his corporation, so no hard feelings on him doing so.

Why EVE University Should Change Its Name

Regarding My Thoughts On EVE University

All that aside ... if a Corporation A wardecs a Corporation B, is it crazy to think that that Corporation A should actually do the travelling to engage Corporation B? Or should Corp A sit back, hoping that the Corp B will come to them, and if Corp B doesn't come to Corp A, then Corp A is entitled complain about how bored they are.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#19 - 2011-09-25 22:35:31 UTC
mkint wrote:
So... are you saying...


Can't really comment on the IC thing, as manipulation would be difficult when they tend to get random facts wrong, but I spoke to Del/David from RvB before declaring and he said the wardec would be fine, and contacted The PitBoss directly after declaring war on The 0rphanage explaining the reasons - after all, they like PvP do they not, and I would have thought 1400 newbies hauling and running missions solo would be a nice target for them.

Not exactly 'unprovoked' now, is it?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-09-25 22:45:43 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
I would have thought 1400 newbies hauling and running missions solo would be a nice target for them.

Seriously. These are the numbers you're presenting? ;)

You might have 1300ish members, but few of them were actively running missions or hauling solo during the last week (not when there were 200+ war targets within 5 jumps of Aldrat all week long.) What percent of your losses last week were haulers and mission runners? Maybe 3%? (Not including managers and directors flying about in ridiculous shinies trying to get popped to prove a "valuable" WSOP point later on.)

What most of your war targets were presented with (if they weren't straight up alumni corporations, where you pre-arranged little battles with them out away from Aldrat) were giant defensive gate camps in Aldrat (from Eygfe), hoping for dumbasses to jump into you, rather than you guys going out hunting. The hunting parties were infrequent, what with the majority of Unistas just sitting on a gate in a giant 80-120 ship blob, a defensive blob that was pretty much constant 18-20 hours of each 23.5 hour game day.
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