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Impressive farming power by all the gunless Minmatars!
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Jeanne Arceneaux
Proxima Fleet Systems
#81 - 2012-08-14 13:36:33 UTC
Pro-tip to Amarr faction: Nobody likes a whiner.

Man up or shut up.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-08-14 13:50:05 UTC
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
I wouldn't mind at all if we were being pushed back by guns. That is how it should be. But that is not the case. We are pushed back by easymode semi-AFK farming alts mostly and a lot of them comes from our very own militia. That is the ****** up part about the game.


Caldari militia is able to hold several enemy systems deep within enemy space and we are massively outnumbered by the Gallente in both pvp & farming toons (Most gallente players have 1-2 matar farming alts). Of course Gallente will now make the obligatory "Lies, we get blobbed all the time" post like they have done for the past years whenever someone dares to say the truth about the warzone.


I'm going to call this mostly false. PVP numbers are actually pretty even between Gallente and Caldari. Since Inferno, the Caldari have had a healthy influx of PVP corps while the Gallente have had virtually no established PVP corps joining their side.

On the plexing front, the Caldari outplex the Gallente by a significant margin according to the CCP reported VPs which don't count farming the VPs farmed in "diagonal militias". In the past, the Caldari were the kings of plexing easily doing 2-3x what the next militia did (Minmatar, Gallente, and Amarr were very close in VP). After nulli left, the minmatar are now the kings of plexing. This clearly shows that the minmatar have the largest plexing army. Since Amarr plexes are so much easier than Caldari, all those minmatar plexers stopped farming Caldari space (which isn't counted in VP totals) and returned home to farm Amarr space (which now is counted and you can see the huge jump in Minmatar VP after Nulli flipped all those Minmatar systems).

The Gallente's only hope against the Caldari is to help the Minmatar capture systems to force the Minmatar plexing horde to return to Caldari space.

.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#83 - 2012-08-14 14:32:05 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Andre Vauban wrote:
Since Amarr plexes are so much easier than Caldari, all those minmatar plexers stopped farming Caldari space (which isn't counted in VP totals) and returned home to farm Amarr space (which now is counted and you can see the huge jump in Minmatar VP after Nulli flipped all those Minmatar systems).
All Minmater plexing alts please come back to Gallente space! We don't care that you are cheating on us right now. We miss you, and want you back!

OK, technically you'd be cheating on them when you plex Gallente space... We don't care! We won't tell.
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#84 - 2012-08-14 14:44:49 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
In the past, the Caldari were the kings of plexing easily doing 2-3x what the next militia did (Minmatar, Gallente, and Amarr were very close in VP). After nulli left, the minmatar are now the kings of plexing.


This is bunch of bullcrap since farmers like you do not get counted to VP total since you are plexing in wrong space = matar farming Caldari space.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#85 - 2012-08-14 15:02:51 UTC
Is Lexmana a Damar alt? Because Damar is the only person I know who can whine that much.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#86 - 2012-08-14 16:02:05 UTC
Lies! We get blobbed all the time!

Yuri Intaki wrote:

Caldari militia is able to hold several enemy systems deep within enemy space and we are massively outnumbered by the Gallente in both pvp & farming toons (Most gallente players have 1-2 matar farming alts). Of course Gallente will now make the obligatory "Lies, we get blobbed all the time" post like they have done for the past years whenever someone dares to say the truth about the warzone.

nom nom
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
#87 - 2012-08-14 16:36:17 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
The minmatard farming offensive is only 44h old but the gunless frigate swarm have already made 2 systems vulnerable. Another 10 systems is contested 70-90%. When those twelve systems are put into vulnerable state the gunless minmatards only need 21 more systems and they are currently contested at 18-70%.

In less than 2 days the minmatar militia is almost 2/3 on their way to T5 warzone control. That is a new record! Some claim this is because minmatar are are brave and well organized fighters. There are even rumors some of them fit guns on their ships. But it is also easy to see that the sheer number of gunless frigates is virtually unbeatable.

Superior numbers have always been an advantage in EVE. But this is not your ordinary blob. EVE has evolved and now the blob doesn't even need guns to win the war and warp core stabilizers are in high demand.

My god you're bitter.


I like this.Twisted

pew pew
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-08-14 18:08:02 UTC
Zen Guerrilla wrote:
I like this.Twisted


Oh that's nice and as we're sharing I like the colour orange but not the fruit.
Ginger Barbarella
#89 - 2012-08-14 18:52:56 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
In less than a single day, 20 systems has been plexed to 20-40% vulnerability suggesting a farming pace at the moment that would make enough systems vulnerable to hit T5 in one week - something the Amarr was no able to do in two months.

The minmatar is so strong they don't even need to fit guns to win the war.


The new mechanics have CLEARLY made ISK more important then PEW.

Also, feel free to search the forum for whines of your stripe and add to the noise.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#90 - 2012-08-14 20:15:40 UTC
Just imagine the farming if you got lp for defensive plexing. Amarr would be so far out of the fwarmville game we would never hit tier 2. Minmatar would use those amarr alts that busted a bunker (so they could start farming right away) to contest systems and farm it back.

I think this proves minmatar are the greediest people in all of eve!

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#91 - 2012-08-15 01:36:17 UTC
David Devant wrote:
This is really just an accident of geography. The reason the amarr militia proper has never got close to higher tiers is because they are unwilling to commit to a long campaign in Metropolis 30 jumps away from their home systems. I can't really blame you. At the minute Metropolis is just handing out free lp to the "Minmatar Militia" and I don't imagine there's any Amarr there to contest it in the way that QCATS and EM did. Tell me if I'm wrong.

I'm sure there's also a large element of pro farming going on as you say. People will have committed alt slots to the Minmatar Militia seeing their potential for Tier 5 control and will have been unwilling to make the switch to Amarr. I'm often pretty terrible at making predictions, but I'll stick my neck out. The Amarr militia will never reach Tier 5 with out the aid of a null power block.

I'm not gloating by the way. I think the current system is stupid and should be changed ASAP. However, don't be so childish as to identify the Minmatar Militia with the LP whores, they are not our fault. Also, you should be man enough to concede the back breaking work that was put in long prior to inferno in order to secure so many systems in Devoid and the Bleaks.


We moved to and took control of amaar space.

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Vordak Kallager
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#92 - 2012-08-15 06:33:13 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
David Devant wrote:
This is really just an accident of geography. The reason the amarr militia proper has never got close to higher tiers is because they are unwilling to commit to a long campaign in Metropolis 30 jumps away from their home systems. I can't really blame you. At the minute Metropolis is just handing out free lp to the "Minmatar Militia" and I don't imagine there's any Amarr there to contest it in the way that QCATS and EM did. Tell me if I'm wrong.

I'm sure there's also a large element of pro farming going on as you say. People will have committed alt slots to the Minmatar Militia seeing their potential for Tier 5 control and will have been unwilling to make the switch to Amarr. I'm often pretty terrible at making predictions, but I'll stick my neck out. The Amarr militia will never reach Tier 5 with out the aid of a null power block.

I'm not gloating by the way. I think the current system is stupid and should be changed ASAP. However, don't be so childish as to identify the Minmatar Militia with the LP whores, they are not our fault. Also, you should be man enough to concede the back breaking work that was put in long prior to inferno in order to secure so many systems in Devoid and the Bleaks.


We moved to and took control of amaar space.


Yeah, a lot of people forget that the Bleak Lands and Devoid were almost entirely Amarr controlled back in the day. Auga and Vard were the front lines. Minmatar leadership heard about the coming changes and we made an active effort to push in, take space and control the warzone before Inferno hit and we were making money off it.

Still, I think there should be a lot more connectivity between Metropolis and the rest of the warzone. It's obnoxious (at least for LNA) that you have to go a billion jumps to get to Metro, would be very convenient if there were some more pipes connecting it to the Amarr side.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Lexmana
#93 - 2012-08-15 07:18:21 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
I take it that you think current mechanics are fine and enjoy the fact that both wealth and FW control is being decided by the number of farmers a faction can field and that these farmers can be very low sp and don't even need to fit guns.


No I dont think so in the least and i've voiced my displeasure of it in other threads and nowhere I said that Amarr should HTFU*. I have quite enough minmatar carebears like Xuixien in our space whose achievements in Eve are limited to running away and spamming local.

*Unless you count suggestions that perhaps when systems are flipped, Amarr could attempt to create more dynamic battlefield by putting some "boots" to Metropolis.

Amarr could probably do more to make FW more interesting I agree. But thing is, we are facing such a huge plexing army that we need to have a very strong presence to be able to defend a single system. And right now we can only manage that in a few systems mainly in the kamela/kourm area. .



I think this brings raises a couple of points.
1) we should have kept plexing longer to hit tier 5. Not only for the payout. But so that we would have more time to bring in a larger stable of farmers. We were gaining alt farmers. But then we cut it short .

Yeah, we could probably have grown our alt farming wing if we had managed to get to T5. The sad thing is that such is the winning strategy with current mechanics. The FW-game is about attracting players that are willing to dedicate a character slot for semi-AFK orbiting buttons in stabbed ships without guns.

Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game.

Fun fact: this is supposed to be a testbed for null sovereignty mechanics. Wouldn't it be hilarious if sov in null also was decided by gunless farmers orbiting buttons in stabbed ships?
Lexmana
#94 - 2012-08-15 07:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Seraphine Keratuus wrote:
Just one little thing about the current level of contestion.

Yesterday Amarr were upgrading to T4 and many Pilots in the Minmatar Militia went out to try to bump that down again.
By Plexing.
Which has a shocking sideeffekt:
It contests the sytems! (just in case you werent aware Blink )

I have no doubt the alt-army of doom, death and destruction will descent once more onto the Amarr but most of that initial push was from the "take them out of T4 again"-Campaign.

You would like to think that but the fact is that your efforts on the Amarr T4 day was just a drop in the ocean. The first day was the slowest day and since then farming has picked up pace. This morning we have 15 vulnerable and 2 lost systems. The rest needed for T5 is between 33-99%.

The new prediction is that Minmatar will be ready for T5 by DT tomorrow! That is less than four days of farming and almost twice as fast as predictions made on the first day.

And from what I can see Minmatar is already flipping systems. Maybe they will only take a few for now but knowing that there is no chance we can re flip in a rate anyway near theirs, they don't actually need to stack up systems. That is what you get from the overwhelming farming force they possess.

Any Amarr that missed the brief T4 cash out window this sunday might have lost the opportunity of better than T1 payout. Maybe there will be another in a month or two?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#95 - 2012-08-15 09:35:26 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game.
Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant.
Lexmana
#96 - 2012-08-15 09:57:50 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game.
Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant.

Nice straw-man. But you are right, home systems is worth fighting over (do we really need fancy FW mechanics for that?). I guess you are trying to say that it proves that FW is working as intended and arguing the contrary is just whining.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#97 - 2012-08-15 11:37:50 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game.
Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant.



Smart people don't make their home system in fw space. It just to be saddles them with the burdern of having their eve spent defensive plexing - usuallly with no wts ever even coming in the plex.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#98 - 2012-08-15 11:52:59 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
I take it that you think current mechanics are fine and enjoy the fact that both wealth and FW control is being decided by the number of farmers a faction can field and that these farmers can be very low sp and don't even need to fit guns.


No I dont think so in the least and i've voiced my displeasure of it in other threads and nowhere I said that Amarr should HTFU*. I have quite enough minmatar carebears like Xuixien in our space whose achievements in Eve are limited to running away and spamming local.

*Unless you count suggestions that perhaps when systems are flipped, Amarr could attempt to create more dynamic battlefield by putting some "boots" to Metropolis.

Amarr could probably do more to make FW more interesting I agree. But thing is, we are facing such a huge plexing army that we need to have a very strong presence to be able to defend a single system. And right now we can only manage that in a few systems mainly in the kamela/kourm area. .



I think this brings raises a couple of points.
1) we should have kept plexing longer to hit tier 5. Not only for the payout. But so that we would have more time to bring in a larger stable of farmers. We were gaining alt farmers. But then we cut it short .

Yeah, we could probably have grown our alt farming wing if we had managed to get to T5. The sad thing is that such is the winning strategy with current mechanics. The FW-game is about attracting players that are willing to dedicate a character slot for semi-AFK orbiting buttons in stabbed ships without guns.



Keep in mind that inferno didn't make plexing this way it just rewarded this conduct. Many people said just adding rewards would make plexing pvp. Well it didn't - at least not directly. It added more people to faction war. And by adding more pilots in the same amount of space you will have more explosions. But the actual mechanics are such that you will plex most efficiently if you never pvp.

Also it doesn't really matter if your ships have guns or not. If the activity of plexing is most efficiently done as a pve activity where you avoid pvp fw sov will remain a joke.

Winning the war with pve drakes that have to warp away from wts will not make fw any better. For those who think they will get some easy hero ganks against carebear ***** it will rarely happen. They will be aligned when they see you on dscan and they will have mwd and cloaks for gates.

Seriously try running some major offensive plexes in a bc other than a heavy missile drake. Try to stay on the button the whole time and tell me if you don't need to at least some extent gimp your ship to keep up with the rats.




Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#99 - 2012-08-15 13:08:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game.
Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant.
Smart people don't make their home system in fw space. It just to be saddles them with the burdern of having their eve spent defensive plexing - usuallly with no wts ever even coming in the plex.
The people who want fights put their ships where the fights are - in low sec, and in FW space.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#100 - 2012-08-15 13:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Lexmana wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game.
Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant.

Nice straw-man. But you are right, home systems is worth fighting over (do we really need fancy FW mechanics for that?). I guess you are trying to say that it proves that FW is working as intended and arguing the contrary is just whining.

I'm arguing two things:
1. You're whining too much, and
2. There actually are meaningful fights in FW.

Everybody and his brother agrees the afk plexing alt thing is FUBAR, but right now therer's nothing any of us can do about it until CCP implements a fix. So instead of continually whining about it nonstop only when your side is losing occupancy warfare, enjoy the ride. There is plenty of fun pvp to be had all over FW space if you would only quit:
1. Taking Occupancy Warfare personally (why do you care about a FUBAR metric?), and
2. Worrying about how much isk an afk plexing alt can make running plexes.

Man up! Don't give me this "But My Faction will never make it out of Tier 1" whinage either. You're in FW for the fights right? Go out and fight.

Edit: BTW, the excessive whinage is coming from all sides depending on which side is "losing" occupancy warfare at the time. So the call to stop whinage goes out to all of us in FW.