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Buy $3000 Lenovo PC get Vangel for free!!

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Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#61 - 2012-08-13 15:24:50 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Let's also be honest.

No one in their right mind would undock one of these ships, so it's hardly pay-to-win.
More like pay-to-spin.

hawt. i liked it.
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#62 - 2012-08-13 15:29:05 UTC
Maybe they could be used in an alliance tournament?

MinerBumping.com
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-08-13 15:30:28 UTC
I love how everyone is arguing over eve being or not being pay to win.

Its really quite simple people.

Person pays real money to CCP - Gets game time. He can if he choses convert this game time into in game currency through the market system.
He can use this money to purshase anything in game including a character.

So we can deduce that a total noob can spend real life money at CCP to get the best in game gear instantly. Bypassing the years of training it would take.

Call that what you want, I call it cheating tbh...... bypassing everything like that is basically removing a huge facet of the game.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-08-13 15:31:17 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Let's also be honest.

No one in their right mind would undock one of these ships, so it's hardly pay-to-win.
More like pay-to-spin.


Why wouldn't you?

I'd get a blast putting an awesome fitting in one of those and go out for a roam with a couple friends.
If I'd loose it so what?-It's not like loosing a leg and arm or an eye, it's just pixels worth nothing in REAL MONEY (/bait)

brb
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#65 - 2012-08-13 15:36:56 UTC
cBOLTSON wrote:

Call that what you want, I call it cheating tbh...... bypassing everything like that is basically removing a huge facet of the game.


They are hard core meta gamers to achieve all that wealth for the explicit purpose of getting ahead in eve. It's fair game in this harsh universe.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#66 - 2012-08-13 15:39:25 UTC
I already won Eve.

If you want to win, you have to pay me now.



ITT there be Fruit Loops

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-08-13 16:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
Pipa Porto wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
If I buy GTC's and sell them, I don't see where the isk goes, it's instant. All I know is that the price of these things are going up... so, as a person who doesn't care that the isk is coming from other players, I can go buy isk, legally.

The only difference, and it's what CCP has you believing is that because the market is player ran that we're not buying said titan from CCP. Where in fact, I gave CCP $30 for each GTC I purchased and in return, I got isk. Provided there is a character for sale in the Bazaar and a titan, I can in fact, pay to win in EVE. The only way EVE no longer becomes pay to win is if nobody ever bought PLEX's off the market and we no longer received ISK for our $30.

It's just disguised well, and you all fall for it.



You don't buy the Titan nor the Character from CCP. You don't sell the GTC/PLEX to CCP. Besides being the provider for the service you are trading (gametime), CCP is uninvolved.

Just because you don't meet the players face to face doesn't mean they aren't there. Just like the Stock market.

Buying a PLEX from CCP is buying a future's contract from CCP for 1 month Gametime with an undetermined maturity.
Selling a PLEX to another player is selling that future's contract for money in a different currency than you bought it with.
What amount of Currency2 you sell the loan for, and what you do with that currency has nothing to do with CCP.

If you call it Pay to Win, that's fine. It flies in the face of what normal people call Pay to Win (items purchased from the game company bypassing the normal mechanics to acquire said items), but that's your call.

Also, to properly be called RMT, the system would have to allow players to "Cash Out." Since you can never receive OOG Currency through the PLEX system, you can't "Cash Out," so it's not properly RMT.


1. You don't need to explain the PLEX system. I fully understand how it works. It's a disguised Pay to Win system. If you're intelligent you see and understand this.

2. Pay to Win : A normal Definition: When you pay a game developer to have an advantage over others using real life money. <-- This is the definition of EVE right here. I can pay real money and get an advantage over others. Provided there are characters to buy and people selling titans.

3. CCP has just added a 'fork' in the process where the items are not spawned directly in your hangar and instead, you need to buy it from things manufactured in their game. However, for 30 dollars, I can buy 1b isk right now because that's the value of 2 PLEX.

The fact remains, if I purchase a GTC for $30, I get isk from a faceless market. I don't care who that person was. It's an illusion, a dupe, and you have been convinced that somehow, the game you love is not pay to win.


I accept that EVE is pay to win. Because, it is. Now you can get mad, huffy puffy and irate on how I dare call your beloved game pay to win, or you can accept that the concepts are the same, it's just the way the system works for the purchaser of the isk that makes the game pay to win.

I get an advantage for real life money.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#68 - 2012-08-13 17:28:24 UTC
Shards are BS... period. Even if its in a country with irrational and oppressive internet laws... EvE should be one universe // one war.

What is given out on China's server is a small matter relative to this.

That's all I have to say.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-08-13 17:36:25 UTC
Zagdul wrote:


If I buy GTC's and sell them, I don't see where the isk goes, it's instant. All I know is that the price of these things are going up... so, as a person who doesn't care that the isk is coming from other players, I can go buy isk, legally.

The only difference, and it's what CCP has you believing is that because the market is player ran that we're not buying said titan from CCP. Where in fact, I gave CCP $30 for each GTC I purchased and in return, I got isk. Provided there is a character for sale in the Bazaar and a titan, I can in fact, pay to win in EVE. The only way EVE no longer becomes pay to win is if nobody ever bought PLEX's off the market and we no longer received ISK for our $30.

It's just disguised well, and you all fall for it.

That's NOT pay to win. You haven't won a damn thing. It's pay for ISK, nothing more...
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#70 - 2012-08-13 17:44:52 UTC
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#71 - 2012-08-13 17:47:10 UTC


Buying PLEX is like buying a trading card at the Comic Book store.

You can trade the card, you can keep the card, you can collect the card with the other players.

When you want to use the card you give it back to CCP and they give you time to play.

GTC has been going on for YEEAAAAAAAAAAARS before plex ever happened.

The only difference is that they are facilitating players' rights to exchange this in an easy in game format without hassle using in game currency.



Where I am.
Fish Alabel
A Big Enough Lever
#72 - 2012-08-13 17:55:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Fish Alabel
Peter Raptor wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
If I buy GTC's and sell them, I don't see where the isk goes, it's instant. All I know is that the price of these things are going up... so, as a person who doesn't care that the isk is coming from other players, I can go buy isk, legally.

The only difference, and it's what CCP has you believing is that because the market is player ran that we're not buying said titan from CCP. Where in fact, I gave CCP $30 for each GTC I purchased and in return, I got isk. Provided there is a character for sale in the Bazaar and a titan, I can in fact, pay to win in EVE. The only way EVE no longer becomes pay to win is if nobody ever bought PLEX's off the market and we no longer received ISK for our $30.

It's just disguised well, and you all fall for it.



You don't buy the Titan nor the Character from CCP. You don't sell the GTC/PLEX to CCP. Besides being the provider for the service you are trading (gametime), CCP is uninvolved.

Just because you don't meet the players face to face doesn't mean they aren't there. Just like the Stock market.

Buying a PLEX from CCP is buying a future's contract from CCP for 1 month Gametime with an undetermined maturity.
Selling a PLEX to another player is selling that future's contract for money in a different currency than you bought it with.
What amount of Currency2 you sell the loan for, and what you do with that currency has nothing to do with CCP.

If you call it Pay to Win, that's fine. It flies in the face of what normal people call Pay to Win (items purchased from the game company bypassing the normal mechanics to acquire said items), but that's your call.

Also, to properly be called RMT, the system would have to allow players to "Cash Out." Since you can never receive OOG Currency through the PLEX system, you can't "Cash Out," so it's not properly RMT.



Man you're splitting hairs over nothing. Roll Ok CCP designs a game in such a way that you can buy a titan with real money in it, so its pay to win practically speaking P Happy now or are you stubborn ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVC_g68nUpo



You don't "win" EVE by buying a titan.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-08-13 17:59:53 UTC
1) that is a nice pc

2) at the bottom of the translated page they have not 1, not 2 but 8 QQ groups. Chinese sure QQ a lot Big smile
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#74 - 2012-08-13 18:22:22 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
If I buy GTC's and sell them, I don't see where the isk goes, it's instant. All I know is that the price of these things are going up... so, as a person who doesn't care that the isk is coming from other players, I can go buy isk, legally.

The only difference, and it's what CCP has you believing is that because the market is player ran that we're not buying said titan from CCP. Where in fact, I gave CCP $30 for each GTC I purchased and in return, I got isk. Provided there is a character for sale in the Bazaar and a titan, I can in fact, pay to win in EVE. The only way EVE no longer becomes pay to win is if nobody ever bought PLEX's off the market and we no longer received ISK for our $30.

It's just disguised well, and you all fall for it.



You don't buy the Titan nor the Character from CCP. You don't sell the GTC/PLEX to CCP. Besides being the provider for the service you are trading (gametime), CCP is uninvolved.

Just because you don't meet the players face to face doesn't mean they aren't there. Just like the Stock market.

Buying a PLEX from CCP is buying a future's contract from CCP for 1 month Gametime with an undetermined maturity.
Selling a PLEX to another player is selling that future's contract for money in a different currency than you bought it with.
What amount of Currency2 you sell the loan for, and what you do with that currency has nothing to do with CCP.

If you call it Pay to Win, that's fine. It flies in the face of what normal people call Pay to Win (items purchased from the game company bypassing the normal mechanics to acquire said items), but that's your call.

Also, to properly be called RMT, the system would have to allow players to "Cash Out." Since you can never receive OOG Currency through the PLEX system, you can't "Cash Out," so it's not properly RMT.


1. You don't need to explain the PLEX system. I fully understand how it works. It's a disguised Pay to Win system. If you're intelligent you see and understand this.

2. Pay to Win : A normal Definition: When you pay a game developer to have an advantage over others using real life money. <-- This is the definition of EVE right here. I can pay real money and get an advantage over others. Provided there are characters to buy and people selling titans.

3. CCP has just added a 'fork' in the process where the items are not spawned directly in your hangar and instead, you need to buy it from things manufactured in their game. However, for 30 dollars, I can buy 1b isk right now because that's the value of 2 PLEX.

The fact remains, if I purchase a GTC for $30, I get isk from a faceless market. I don't care who that person was. It's an illusion, a dupe, and you have been convinced that somehow, the game you love is not pay to win.


I accept that EVE is pay to win. Because, it is. Now you can get mad, huffy puffy and irate on how I dare call your beloved game pay to win, or you can accept that the concepts are the same, it's just the way the system works for the purchaser of the isk that makes the game pay to win.

I get an advantage for real life money.


Clueless.

I can get anything with ISK earned in game that you can pay money for to obtain.

This is not, by any definition, pay to win.

If you could buy with cash some advantage that I cannot obtain with ISK earned in game, then it would be pay to win.

Instead it is simply an alternate payment method for in game items available to everyone equally.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2012-08-13 18:50:46 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
If I buy GTC's and sell them, I don't see where the isk goes, it's instant. All I know is that the price of these things are going up... so, as a person who doesn't care that the isk is coming from other players, I can go buy isk, legally.

The only difference, and it's what CCP has you believing is that because the market is player ran that we're not buying said titan from CCP. Where in fact, I gave CCP $30 for each GTC I purchased and in return, I got isk. Provided there is a character for sale in the Bazaar and a titan, I can in fact, pay to win in EVE. The only way EVE no longer becomes pay to win is if nobody ever bought PLEX's off the market and we no longer received ISK for our $30.

It's just disguised well, and you all fall for it.



You don't buy the Titan nor the Character from CCP. You don't sell the GTC/PLEX to CCP. Besides being the provider for the service you are trading (gametime), CCP is uninvolved.

Just because you don't meet the players face to face doesn't mean they aren't there. Just like the Stock market.

Buying a PLEX from CCP is buying a future's contract from CCP for 1 month Gametime with an undetermined maturity.
Selling a PLEX to another player is selling that future's contract for money in a different currency than you bought it with.
What amount of Currency2 you sell the loan for, and what you do with that currency has nothing to do with CCP.

If you call it Pay to Win, that's fine. It flies in the face of what normal people call Pay to Win (items purchased from the game company bypassing the normal mechanics to acquire said items), but that's your call.

Also, to properly be called RMT, the system would have to allow players to "Cash Out." Since you can never receive OOG Currency through the PLEX system, you can't "Cash Out," so it's not properly RMT.


1. You don't need to explain the PLEX system. I fully understand how it works. It's a disguised Pay to Win system. If you're intelligent you see and understand this.

2. Pay to Win : A normal Definition: When you pay a game developer to have an advantage over others using real life money. <-- This is the definition of EVE right here. I can pay real money and get an advantage over others. Provided there are characters to buy and people selling titans.

3. CCP has just added a 'fork' in the process where the items are not spawned directly in your hangar and instead, you need to buy it from things manufactured in their game. However, for 30 dollars, I can buy 1b isk right now because that's the value of 2 PLEX.

The fact remains, if I purchase a GTC for $30, I get isk from a faceless market. I don't care who that person was. It's an illusion, a dupe, and you have been convinced that somehow, the game you love is not pay to win.


I accept that EVE is pay to win. Because, it is. Now you can get mad, huffy puffy and irate on how I dare call your beloved game pay to win, or you can accept that the concepts are the same, it's just the way the system works for the purchaser of the isk that makes the game pay to win.

I get an advantage for real life money.


You really FC like you think....

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2012-08-13 19:46:28 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Let's also be honest.

No one in their right mind would undock one of these ships, so it's hardly pay-to-win.
More like pay-to-spin.


Exactly. Just a lot of ugly jealousy in this topic.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Pipa Porto
#77 - 2012-08-13 20:12:28 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
1. You don't need to explain the PLEX system. I fully understand how it works. It's a disguised Pay to Win system. If you're intelligent you see and understand this.

2. Pay to Win : A normal Definition: When you pay a game developer to have an advantage over others using real life money. <-- This is the definition of EVE right here. I can pay real money and get an advantage over others. Provided there are characters to buy and people selling titans.

3. CCP has just added a 'fork' in the process where the items are not spawned directly in your hangar and instead, you need to buy it from things manufactured in their game. However, for 30 dollars, I can buy 1b isk right now because that's the value of 2 PLEX.

The fact remains, if I purchase a GTC for $30, I get isk from a faceless market. I don't care who that person was. It's an illusion, a dupe, and you have been convinced that somehow, the game you love is not pay to win.


I accept that EVE is pay to win. Because, it is. Now you can get mad, huffy puffy and irate on how I dare call your beloved game pay to win, or you can accept that the concepts are the same, it's just the way the system works for the purchaser of the isk that makes the game pay to win.

I get an advantage for real life money.


1. Just because you don't meet the players face to face doesn't mean they aren't there. Just like the Stock market.

2. That Definition would also include Gametime. Each month you spend training is you paying money for an advantage over others. Your definition is so overbroad that it's ueless.

3. Nope, you can buy two months gametime. Right not there are people willing to grind 1b ISK for that 2 months gametime. CCP's not involved.


By your definition, every subscription based game is P2W. Each month you spend doing stuff costs you X dollars (your sub) and gives you an advantage over other players.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
#78 - 2012-08-13 20:45:11 UTC
The outside world is too dangerous for the Chinese so why would we care about you? Heh, the entire culture is built on nepotism and you're surprised the money people are getting better stuff?
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-08-14 00:00:40 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


Clueless.

I can get anything with ISK earned in game that you can pay money for to obtain.

This is not, by any definition, pay to win.

If you could buy with cash some advantage that I cannot obtain with ISK earned in game, then it would be pay to win.

Instead it is simply an alternate payment method for in game items available to everyone equally.




Pay to Win: You pay real life money to get ahead of other people.
Not Pay to Win: No way to use real life money for an advantage.

Which does EVE fall in sir?

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2012-08-14 00:33:04 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
You don't need to explain the PLEX system. I fully understand how it works. It's a disguised Pay to Win system. If you're intelligent you see and understand this.
…too bad that no amount of win can be bought, only game time. You are buying 30 days (or wasting 30 days on useless decorations).

You are not getting any advantage by paying that can't be had just as easily without paying for it. If you think game time — i.e. playing the game — is P2W then hopscotch is also P2W.

Quote:
Pay to Win: You pay real life money to get ahead of other people.
Not Pay to Win: No way to use real life money for an advantage.

Which does EVE fall in sir?
The latter since “advantage” implies that you're getting something others don't get or don't have. Nothing of the kind is bought with your real money. All you get is game time.