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The more I learn the more I am confused "Help in planning out a ship build"

Author
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#1 - 2012-08-13 04:13:01 UTC
Ok, thank you all with your answers to my last topic and post for help, I walked away knowing more on planning for a ship configuration.

Now I have also figured out how I wish to play the game as well, I'm looking to do Complexes, Missions, and Wormholes Solo. With that said though I am running into trouble with finding a ship that can do all that. All I can figure out is that I need Probes, a salvager, codebreaker, and analyzer. So my question is how to pull this fit off.

I have looked into every ship in eve from Frigates to Battleships from all the empires and factions, and I am running into a head ache, I know all in one fits don't do very well usually, but if done right you can solo on in Null-sec/Wormholes/Complexes/Missions.

So in the end I need the forums help in filling in the gaps, I know that when worm-holing you need to do some Omni-tanking with a more active tank approach, where Missions/complexes need a more passive and speed tanking. Methods you can't do all of without failing at it all, so how can I build this ship to be able to solo C3 wormholes and level 3 Missions/complexes. I was if I was to do higher classes/level situations, teem up with someone. So what do I do to make this ship happen?

I was thinking a Ninja Drone Boat Missile Boat like the Rattlesnake, or a Proteus/Tengu build, I don't know, seeing as sleepers pop drones like no tomorrow and have a long lock-on range with heavy damage output and high tank, plus some of them can have a lot of speed behind them, so lock-on at rage tends to miss them.

I am stumped at this, I could use some real insight to pulling this off.

Thanks all.
Methesda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-08-13 04:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Methesda
The Ishtar is your boy.

EDIT: Read the bit about Sleepers taking out drones. Personally, though its hard, I've never lost more than a couple of drones, and there is plenty of room for spares in an Ishtar. I spent a lot of time on drones skills though, as I'm a solo player myself, and the Ishtart bonus helps a tonne. You'll want to carry a small remote reppers for the drones though. If you find your still getting heavies beaten up, use beserkers as they are the fastest

Eve is about the journey.  If you are so focused on making money, that you insist on having the tools to make it be made as autonomous and easy as possible, then you are never going to have as much fun as I will.

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3 - 2012-08-13 04:50:58 UTC
There are many Prot/Tengu setups that could work for what you want...

I can't offer more because beyond EFT playing around, I don't know much about Gallente or Caldari T3s.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#4 - 2012-08-13 16:40:57 UTC
Is a Gila a good ship to use on top of the Ishtar? Also could anyone help me with a Proteus and/or Tengu fit that could pull of what i am seeking?

Just keep in mind it needs a Probe Bay (Preferably Expanded Sisters), Salvager (II), Codebreaker (II), and Analyzer (II). That the ship needs to be able to run Level 3 Missions/Complexes Solo and run C3 Wormholes solo, as well as be able to Ninja. I have seen it pulled off with Ishtar's and Gila's as well as Proteus's and Tengu's.

So if anyone has fits for those four ships that fit what I am looking for, that I can use for my ship, please help.
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#5 - 2012-08-15 04:18:14 UTC
An all in one ship for w-space is extremely difficult, if not impossible without breaking the bank. You'll need a T3 at least, because you're looking at a salvager, a scanner, an analyzer, a codebreaker, and possibly a cloak. That's 4-5 slots down, which is *huge*. If you want to start in w-space, ditch the analyzer and codebreaker, but keep the salvager and scanner. Start on anoms and move up to signatures once you're comfortable. Head for a c1 or c2 in your choice of ship. I recommend Drake, Myrm, or Cyclone to start you out. If you're going myrm, I have to recommend autocannons and a flight of lights and meds. Just be quick with recalling your drones when they're primaried. Stick to minnie drones for that purpose. It can be armor or shield tanked, depending on your preference. Cyclone and Drake are more straightforward. Active tank the cyclone. Passive the drake.


OR

Go to lowsec. Fit up a myrm with a MWD, t2 cloak, and all 4 exploration mods. Get yourself some drone damage amps and a few autocannons. Run 2 salvagers if you feel your damage is fine, and Armor tank that mofo. Learn to cloak-MWD align warp to bust through gatecamps and make bank rapidly clearing Radar and Mag sites in lowsec. Just stay clear of FW zones, because they're a hotbed of PvP action. Stick to the perimeter of each of the regions(the part directly between highsec and nullsec). It can get a lot of activity, but it's still safer overall than FW if you're good with your d-scan.


Furthermore, you carry spare modules in your inventory and dock and switch up when you see high paying complexes that you can't tank with analyzer and codebreaker equipped. I did this for a good 3 or 4 months after I finally shut down my solo w-space operation, before upgrading to a recon for all my lowsec needs. But I got bored with complexes pretty quickly and focus exclusively on radar and mag these days.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank

Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#6 - 2012-08-16 01:40:42 UTC
What about this fit, would it do the job of Level 3/C3 Complex/Mission/Wormhole running, if not what should I change?

[Tengu]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Capacitor Battery II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 100
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 100
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II

'Smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
'Sisters' Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile

Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier

Codebreaker/Analyzer/Salvager are all in the Cargo hold so when needed I can fly back for refit

Covert/Null/Afterburner are to get past gate camps and to do sneak and kill on Ratts.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#7 - 2012-08-17 06:04:57 UTC
Bump
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2012-08-17 16:14:46 UTC
Dimitri Utrigas wrote:
What about this fit, would it do the job of Level 3/C3 Complex/Mission/Wormhole running, if not what should I change?

[Tengu]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Capacitor Battery II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 100
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 100
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II

'Smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
'Sisters' Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile

Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier

Codebreaker/Analyzer/Salvager are all in the Cargo hold so when needed I can fly back for refit

Covert/Null/Afterburner are to get past gate camps and to do sneak and kill on Ratts.


This isn't going to work. And frankly I don't see any Tengu fit that can cram all of your goals together.

Your problems are legion. First, any time you use the Covert Reconfiguration you're going to lose a huge chunk of damage. For any serious combat you need an Accelerated Ejection Bay.

Second, the combination of Emergent Locus Analyzer and Interdiction Nullifier leaves you short on lows -- which you need to increase your damage. Again, a Tengu fit for combat will want at least three BCUs and will preferably have the option to fit four.

Third, HAMs aren't helping you as much as you think. They have gimped range compared to HMs, which is a problem because one of the huge advantages a Tengu has over other T3s is damage projection (also helped by the Accelerated Ejection Bay). More importantly, they have trouble applying that damage to cruisers and smaller, and lots of the rats you're looking to shoot fall in to that category. As a bonus, Rigors don't do anything for unguided missiles, making that a wasted rig slot.

Furthermore, you're trying to get by on four launchers. For combat sites, wormholes, etc. you want six. Your damage doesn't add up to enough to break many low sec overseers, and that's providing you get far enough to even encounter them.

Fourth, relying on ASBs for roaming exploration is just bad. You need a constant supply of cap boosters to keep your tank running and there's simply no way to carry enough plus ammunition to go through more than a site or two (again, if we're talking serious combat and not non-wormhole professional sites).

Fifth, you're slow. Again, this is the Interdiction Nullifier's fault.

Sixth, your rigs are a mess. Calefaction Catalysts are almost always an inferior choice to Bay Loading Accelerators. The extra 2.8km you get from the Bay Thrusters are probably needed but still fall well short of the 70-110km a Tengu should have as basic operating range. And as noted, Rigors don't work on HAMs.

So all in all, no, this will not do what you want. No single Tengu build will do what you want. If you want to daytrip into C1/C2/possibly C3s, you can build a Tengu for that but don't expect it to run professional sites and don't expect it to be nullified or have a covops cloak. If you want to roam low sec fit up a travel/probing/covops fit and carry a combat reconfiguration. If you want to do null professional sites you can get away with a cloaky/nullified fit but don't expect it to run combat sites.

And honestly, practice fitting on less finicky ships. T3s require that you know quite a bit about how different modules interact. Being able to fit ships where are
Jhan Arlok
EVExplorations
#9 - 2012-08-17 16:58:13 UTC
I may repeat what some other guys ave said and if so, sorry.

There is no ship that can do all you want to do in a single fit. I've tried the very same thing you are trying and trust me, you can't do it.

BUT......the ship that gets the closest is the ISHTAR, bar none. That is the most versatile ship in the game, IMO.


But even the Ishtar can not handle C3 WHs solo. You need a bare minimum of 500dps and an omni tank of 500dps. And that really is bare minimum. Thats why Tengu are so popular in WHs if you pimp them out. You can hit over 700 on both.

So.....the Ishtar can handle most everything you need if you fit it right. And thats all becasue it can fit 5 sentries for sniping. And be ready to pimp it out to do so.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#10 - 2012-08-18 03:19:54 UTC
Ok changed some things

[Tengu]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Capacitor Battery II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Small Shield Booster II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II

'Smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
'Sisters' Expanded Probe Launcher II, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier

Now what do I still have wrong? And what should I swap out? I am keeping my subsystems I have a reason for using them, that includes the cloak and probe bay. So what can I do to boost this fit up to handle what I seek to do?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2012-08-18 04:31:23 UTC
You're dead set on this? Fine.


[Tengu, abomination mark ii]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier


I got you up to 339 damage and 325 omnitank, cap stable. I certainly wouldn't fly it, but it fits your specs as you perceive them.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#12 - 2012-08-18 05:26:39 UTC
Thanks, believe me, even though it may look bad, I have managed to make worse fits fly pretty well in Solo PvE. I was just looking for ways to up my chances is all. Also does anyone know of an good program other than EFT to use? EFT I feel is skewing the numbers a little and some equipment is missing from its listings.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2012-08-18 06:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Dimitri Utrigas wrote:
Thanks, believe me, even though it may look bad, I have managed to make worse fits fly pretty well in Solo PvE. I was just looking for ways to up my chances is all. Also does anyone know of an good program other than EFT to use? EFT I feel is skewing the numbers a little and some equipment is missing from its listings.


EFT numbers are actually pretty good. As for the missing modules, look under the little tabs on the bottom left. They're all in there:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1731582#post1731582

Edit: but you can try Pyfa. Works about the same. I'm just so used to EFT that I prefer it. Both have their UI issues, but the devil you know etc.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#14 - 2012-08-18 16:44:56 UTC
Thanks again.