Intergalactic Summit

Ah, now you're speaking my language, Mr. Amith.



And how is "lesser wisdom" to be dealt with? To put it a little differently, do you regret at all that the Udorians are apparently no longer easily distinguishable from the True Amarr? Or is that the way it ought to be?



Oh, it's quite alright. As I've noted before, I'm not without an agenda. However, (1) part of that agenda is indeed to expand my understanding and (2) facets or shards of truth (and it's blasted hard to find a whole truth) are generally both harder and sharper than the keenest lie, so, even if I'm on the attack, I don't argue in bad faith and I genuinely believe what I say.

I don't presume that I'm wholly correct. Actually, I presume the opposite, but trust my existing experience unless it is obviously flawed and adapt my understanding as I go.

In other words, I'm an opinionated seeker, not a propagandist. You'll find me highly protective of the State, of Patriot political positions, and particularly of Saisio, but you won't find me lying through my teeth or popping off politically-motivated "zingers," as a rule. I don't believe I need to think somebody is "evil" to oppose that person's aims, and can kill people who oppose my causes with neither moral judgment nor very much regret.

My eyes are open, but they are still my eyes, if you follow.

Fascinating, I am pleased to see we are not talking in circles nor debating simply for the sake of debating.

We are indeed at an impasse, you are morally relativistic whereas I am morally objective. (That is to say that I believe there is a single, highest standard of morality by which all of humanity is judged. As you likely suspect, God would be the one who establishes the highest standard of morality.)

Back to our original discussion and the answer to your question, I suppose it provides them little comfort here but is exchanged for greater comfort in the eternal scale. That is, of course, unless their perception shifts and they begin to also understand the fleeting value of temporal and secular things and the eternal and intrinsic value of eternal things. Which is the preferable outcome.

There is a point at which I perceive you are taking a leap from "lesser wisdom" to "folly" and not distinguishing the two. The only "wisdom" that is eradicated is that which is found to be in opposition to the wisdom of God, thus it is folly and not wisdom. Lesser wisdom is simply put in perspective as being lesser than the greater wisdom (that being the wisdom of the truth and revelation of God and subsequently the understanding of the intrinsic value of all that is eternal as being greater than that which is temporal). Such wisdom is not eradicated, merely put in perspective. For example, the understanding of individual value and freedom of the Gallente is not folly, it is a lesser wisdom. When put in perspective with the greater wisdom, we weigh the individual freedom against the discipline and righteousness expected of us by God and value the latter before the former. If they do not oppose then why should the individual not have this freedom? If they do oppose, then it is necessary to sacrifice that freedom in pursuit of the greater wisdom.

Regarding your question about the Udorians: No, I do not regret it nor is it the way it ought to be, it is simply what has become. I doubt there will ever be a point in which the Khanid and the True Amarr are indistinguishable in appearance or even culture, but I would yearn for a point at which we are indistinguishable by faith. That is the pursuit.

Our moral code is crafted with reason and evidence. Are there those that cling to it with fanatical, faith based, and illogical fever? Of course. But that does not invalidate the underlying principles. We are moral, not all of us perhaps, but we are. Scientists have concluded that long ago all of humanity can be traced back to one world, one evolutionary tree. Where this world is, and what else we evolved alongside of has been lost to time, but its existence is incontrovertible.

Why do I make these references to evolutionary biology? Because morality evolved. Morality ascends from empathy. Empathy is born of evolution, for a species that can feel what its offspring feel and can care about them and for them is more likely to survive and reproduce than one which has is identical in every other way, but which cares nothing for its children.

So empathy evolved, and we are of a species in which it evolved. Then we take reason and evidence and apply it. We see that empathy is not only successful in reproduction, but in many other facets of life. Throughout the crucible of history we have seen that societies which trample freedoms and rights are plagued with instability. They lack progress and innovation, their people suffer, and because they have no avenue to take in which they can better their situation, they become desperate, despondent, or angry. Productivity and wellbeing suffers.

This can be seen on the current stage. The Amarr Empire is plagued with rebellion and conflict. Their history is littered with wars, conquests, and tragedies. Many of their people are mentally unwell.

Likewise, the Caldari State has many who exist in crushing poverty. Those who are born into such conditions rarely leave them, and though many geniuses, artists, and warriors of unparalleled potential may be born into such circumstances, they have no means by which to escape them. Likewise, those that do not belong to a corporation may find themselves without purpose, status, or means. Higher up, the State is notably ruthless. Friendship and trust are rare commodities, and again, emotional health suffers in the pursuit of wealth.

The Minmatar have their own unique set of struggles and have yet to find their voice. I applaud them for their efforts.

The Gallente Federation is not perfect, but its democratic process has given rise to the greatest economic and military power in New Eden. Flawed though it may be, its cycles of rebirth have allowed all to seek and find opportunities to better themselves. It has committed crimes, trampled freedoms, betrayed the rights engrained in its philosophy, and has always suffered for it. But when a new government comes and embraces these rights, and works with evidence, science, and philosophy to move into the future, every member of the Federation reaps great rewards. This progress then goes on to better the standard of living in other societies and contribute to the wellbeing of all creation.

Before the Gallente-Caldari War, the Federation's expansion has been remarkably peaceful, and has brought increased prosperity and happiness to many of those within its influence. I believe that it is still too focused on financial wellbeing at the detriment of personal fulfillment, but I am in the unique position to voice this dissent and work for a peaceful and orderly change to policy and priorities. Something which dissenters in many other nations do not have the opportunity to do unless they are lucky enough to be born to privilege and power.

But I recognize another truth. Just as one planet can sustain many unique ecosystems, it may be possible that humanity can achieve more than one fulfilling and efficient society. But as of now, I remain firmly convinced that the Gallente Federation is the best hope for the future. Perhaps with reform, the Caldari could attain a similar solution, for there is much about their system that has merit, but so long as they allow so many of their people to remain homeless and worthless, they are squandering opportunity. And so long as they allow so much of their power to remain concentrated in the hands of a few, they are squashing innovation.

The Amarrian system however is one which cannot be reformed. It is condemned for it is built on a bedrock of human suffering and abuse. They claim God and morality, but enforce it with lash, addiction, and murder. Just like the tyrants we threw off in our ancient history, the Amarrian system must be put to the sword. They are all consuming, and while even the Caldari and Gallente may one day live together in peace (though that day seems distant and probably will not happen without a sound military defeat on one side or the other), so long as the Amarr remain as they are there will always be war. So long as a single soul stands defiant, they will be driven to conquest.

Their morality defies reason. Defies evidence. Their system is not moral. It is coercion and suppression. Oh, the privileged few are allowed morality, civility, the rule of law. And these few drive the economic and scientific engine which keeps the Empire alive. But this unequal application is morally abhorrent. It defies empathy. Whenever one looks at a system, one must see oneself from every perspective. Is this system fair and just if I am of the privileged class? Now is it still fair and just to me, as the same person, if I am of the lowest class.

An immoral god that defies human morality is exactly that. An immoral god. Such gods were said to exist in our myths. Our myths say they were overthrown. Justice prevailed. It is time for Justice to prevail, for the sake of galactic stability, for the sake of human wellbeing, for the sake of progress, profit, and whatever else you may care about. Morals may be to some extent relativistic, but they can be derived from reason and experiment, and such morality from reason is far superior to morality from authority. We will prove it on the battlefield if need be.

You were doing really well until this bit. The Gallente are quite able to display you as monsters without our help. After all, it wasn't us or the Caldari that attempted to invade Solitude, it was one of your imperial heirs. Your people have given the Gallente enough reason to dislike you without needing to borrow from our hatred of your kind.

Also, claiming the Gallente public opinion is influenced by the Minmatar 'propaganda machine' is just a little bit hilarious. The millions of our people fleeing the Empire and the Republic for the Federation is all in the aid of propaganda is it?

And finally. That was one of the worst attempts at disguising your own propaganda as a claim to have found evidence of someone else's that I have ever seen.

Um. Ms. Kalaratiri, my view may be a little tweaked, since I was in pretty much all ways uninvolved, but ... I don't think that fiasco had much effect as far as generating hatred. More, um, puzzlement, and a bit of snickering.

The Gallente and Amarr have never been exactly friends, as far as I know; the incompatibility of their worldviews is pretty obvious. I don't think that bizarre, short-lived invasion left a noticeable mark.

There are mobs and there are movements. Mobs are rampaging, murderous, nonsensical. Movements can accomplish great things. The goal of a free society is to reduce the need or causes for mobs and to increase the access to movements in society. Alas, even in a democracy the minority can rule, and it can be disastrous. The execution of the traitor was a shameful moment. It was not justice. It was vengeance. A lesson in how far we still have to go to achieve a truly enlightened and civilized society. I have no more love for the fascists within my nation than I do for the fascists within any other. It is the duty of reasoning and feeling people to oppose them. In the Federation, to shirk this individual duty is to allow fear and passion to rule. It is a danger, but safeguards are in place, and though liberty's banner be scorched and blooded as the sun sets, it will still fly, battered but triumphant, so long as the free and the bold defend it.

As for the Amarr being stable? Their government has changed little, but the amount of war and rebellion that they've seen has been unrivaled by any other nation. Even the greatest battle between we Caldari and Gallente could not rival the great Amarrian-Jove conflict.

I think in an ideal world all people should be free to choose and enter into the system of government that appeals to them. Currently, we capsuleers are blessed with this ability, but many others are not. Until the Caldari workers and Amarr slaves are allowed to choose for themselves, it is the duty of the Federation to apply some measure of pressure. To do otherwise would be to betray our principles.

But I wonder, how can the Caldari support the Amarr? You believe in meritocracy? What of the merited slave? What of the meritless holder? And should, in some distant day the Amarr stand victorious over the Minmatar? What then? Will they stop and be content? Will they honor their word to the State, or will they decide that God's word is greater than man's? It is in their nature to conquer, and if the Caldari and Amarr stand alone atop the wreckage of their foes, what then? You think they will be content until every last man, woman, and child is shackled to their evil God? You speak of how the Gallente are fickle, how the slightest change is public opinion can change long-standing policy. That may be true, but even our highest officials are bound by laws which they may not overrule.

The Emperor or Empress of the Amarr is bound by no such law. Only the word of a God only he or she can hear. You could live two-thousand years at peace, with bounty and peace between your peoples, and all it would take would be a word from a newly anointed Emperor and that peace would crumble. It is only a matter of time.

Captain Montclaire,

it is not the real Amarrians we need to fear. Say what you will, but at least they are upfront about their intentions. When they cross our borders, they do so with guns blazing, and they are actually opposed and driven out. There's an honesty and frankness to that conflict which is, to tell the truth, refreshing.

Who we need to fear are the countless less blatant intruders who constantly slip across our borders unopposed - either to rob honest merchants of an honest living by dumping shoddy and underpriced goods on the market, or to latch themselves onto one of the myriad teats sprouting from our bloated bureaucracy and never again let go. What we need to fear is the erosion of our society from within.

That is interesting...

If what you say is true your family is in violation of the Emancipation Edict issued by the Empress herself.

That depends on whether or not the slaves are classed as Minmatars.

Do you dispute that an Emperor or Empress could easily start a war if he or she had the desire to do so? Even if they are not above all law, they are respected and obeyed until they have shown themselves unworthy of it, and would a grand attempt to bring the last rebellious State under the gentle guidance of the Amarr be seen as grounds to forsake this Emperor or Empress? I expect that it would be more likely for it to be applauded.

Your other points however are very well made. The engineering of your Empire is truly brilliant. That it requires even one generation of slavery is abhorrent, and that these slaves form the underpinning of its economic might is to my mind obscene, but I do not doubt that there are many within the Amarr state who truly mean well.

Alas, though your empire is built to be stable, I doubt it could survive indefinitely alongside others who refuse its teachings. Your doctrine has oft in the past demanded that those whose beliefs are different must be educated, and experience has shown that nothing is better at shattering one's faith in their false god than for their entire civilization to be purged by fire. What is mortal suffering when weighed against immortal, everlasting salvation?

The Amarr Empire is excellently engineered and is unmatched in the power of its indoctrination techniques. Yes, slaves can be freed, if their families are in good standing and have served faithfully for many generations. But this still condemns the individual. Without an act of truly epic heroism, no slave can free him or herself if born into a family in bad standing. Moreover, I have read that many of your slaves who work as manual laborers are not even taught to read or write. Those that are educated and who will be serving on ships or posts that demand a high degree of intelligence and skill are then addicted to a substance without which they will die. Many of your other slave control techniques are equally or even more brutal. How you can make use of these tools and then claim that this treatment is moral is frankly, beyond my comprehension.

Madame Ikiryo, I did not mean to imply that the Caldari wished to spread their ideas to other peoples. I was attempting to point out that the Caldari philosophy is one which does not easily lend itself to cooperation with the Amarr. And while the Caldari State can make a credible attempt to portray itself as a meritocracy, the Amarr Empire cannot.

I would make one more point. The Gallente Federation is often portrayed as unsympathetic to other viewpoints. My people tend to believe in challenging institutions, in challenging ideas, but we do try to respect individuals. Though I and many others rail against the Amarr faith as a governmental institution, any Amarrian who wished to live within the Federation and practice his or her faith within the boundaries of the law would be free and welcome to do so. We celebrate diversity.