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The new Mackinkaw, new king miner, better than a hauler, all in one, afk mining machine.
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Deise Koraka
Caldari Investigations and Forensics
#101 - 2012-08-12 21:50:26 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw: 287m sell/263m buy
Hulk: 224m sell/170m buy
Skiff: 190m sell/164m buy

I thought the intention of the barge buff was to remove one barge being best. That being the Hulk. The Mackinkaw has taken the Hulks old roll as king of the barges, the yield is almost as good as the Hulk, it has better tank, and it has a massive ore hold which is the primary thing that's making it so overpowered. Able to mine on ice roids for over half an hour as a semi afk income, it can't be beaten, it has taken the role of the Hulk as the primary choice of barge. Failing that, the retriever, which is almost as good.

There's one main reason for this. 35k m3 ore hold, not far below that of an ORCA. Does anyone else think that the devs didn't think this through too well? I can't see many miners not taking a Mackinkaw over a Hulk even with Orca support, because 35k m3 ore hold allows them to do other things while your Mackinkaw pulls in what is basically an afk income for at least half an hour at a time.

It's already apparent what effect this is having on the ice market. If the trend continues, soon the only people mining ice will be bots and afk alts.

Someone pointed out below that the Mackinkaw hauls ore better than an actual hauler does now. It takes the primary role of a hauler and does it better. You may aswell have just taken the Iteron MK5/Occator and given it mining lasers and hulk like yield. That's what we have now, a super industrial all in one miner and hauler


All it did was make the Mack the choice of high sec solo miners. Hulks still mine more, they just need the support of a corp.

These changes made sure every type of miner had a ship that catered to their mining style of choice, that's all.

I am a carebear, and I support High Sec ganking and PvP. Just please, don't blow up my Hulk*. **<3 **

*Mackinaw as of Inferno 1.2
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#102 - 2012-08-12 21:54:57 UTC
Deise Koraka wrote:
All it did was make the Mack the choice of high sec solo miners. Hulks still mine more, they just need the support of a corp.

These changes made sure every type of miner had a ship that catered to their mining style of choice, that's all.

Not necessarily. You look around the highsec belts and see the extinction of the hulk in favor of the mackinaw. Check the market and note the price changes, too.

MinerBumping.com
Deise Koraka
Caldari Investigations and Forensics
#103 - 2012-08-12 22:01:03 UTC
James 315 wrote:

You look around the highsec belts and see the extinction of the hulk in favor of the mackinaw. Check the market and note the price changes, too.


Didn't I just say it's now the ship of choice for high-sec solo miners...


Well, "The Market" is high sec and....of course that's going to happen, people want to make money off these changes.

Out in 0.0 I'm sure the Hulk will live on, where it has the support of raquals etc.

Even in High sec, with the support of a orca, hulk is still preferable for yield.

I am a carebear, and I support High Sec ganking and PvP. Just please, don't blow up my Hulk*. **<3 **

*Mackinaw as of Inferno 1.2
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#104 - 2012-08-12 22:15:17 UTC
New Mack is awesome, great change for the downtrodden hisec miners, Goon stranglehold on Eve economy is loosening Bear

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2012-08-12 23:04:25 UTC
Deise Koraka wrote:
James 315 wrote:

You look around the highsec belts and see the extinction of the hulk in favor of the mackinaw. Check the market and note the price changes, too.


Didn't I just say it's now the ship of choice for high-sec solo miners...


Well, "The Market" is high sec and....of course that's going to happen, people want to make money off these changes.

Out in 0.0 I'm sure the Hulk will live on, where it has the support of raquals etc.

Even in High sec, with the support of a orca, hulk is still preferable for yield.



People in hi-sec with orcas seem to prefer macs, see my screenshots of mac/rettie dominance in the belts on the previous page.
ashley Eoner
#106 - 2012-08-12 23:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Andski wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Andski wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
I think what needs to be done now is to get rid of NPC corps... now that you cant just insta gank these things anymore you should be able to war dec these people... just force them into thier respective faction warfare corp and there you have it...


Heh they can most definitely be ganked, easily



i was runing the number got around a 30k ehp tank on the mack... not bad... not safe either...

how many catalysts do you need now to kill one?

with heat on you get what 650 dps out of each one? so 4 do 2600 dps so in 11 seconds its dead...
not bad at all i guess... just takes more coordination...


650 DPS is only with all skills at V, void and heat on an all-neutron catalyst, which you can't fit a scram+web on with 3 magstabs. It's more reasonable to assume 460 dps with heat and named blasters with faction ammo or 580 dps on a 5 neutron/2 ion catalyst with CPU rigs.

You can get 47k EHP against blasters if you brick it and keep hardeners preheated FYI
You can easily fit a scam on a gankalyst (web isn't worth bothering with). neutron with void you can easily almost hit 700 dps without implants. if you're willing to invest in implants you can push to over 750 when heated. Sure it'll cost you about 10-15m to do if you buy everything off the market at reasonable prices. You can easily lower the cost per gank by setting buy orders below market value (works quite well) and by reusing components (salvager alt nearby is a given anyway) combined with the payout from the goons you've got quite a bit of subsidizing going on.

Granted I will give you that a heated brick tanked mack is a pain to gank. Fortunately the player has to be paying close attention in order to get the defensive systems heated before I start blasting.



Quote:
People in hi-sec with orcas seem to prefer macs, see my screenshots of mac/rettie dominance in the belts on the previous page.
Probably because with full orca buffs and implants the hulk can barely hold one cycle of ore in it's hold. That makes multi-boxing in high sec a bit more problematic. Semi-brick tanked macks lose out on yield on paper but at least you won't have "oh crap" moments when you waste a cycle or two cause one of your hulks was full..
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#107 - 2012-08-13 00:14:45 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw: 287m sell/263m buy
Hulk: 224m sell/170m buy
Skiff: 190m sell/164m buy

I thought the intention of the barge buff was to remove one barge being best. That being the Hulk. The Mackinkaw has taken the Hulks old roll as king of the barges, the yield is almost as good as the Hulk, it has better tank, and it has a massive ore hold which is the primary thing that's making it so overpowered.


When I said it before the patch, like here and here was welcome with denial if not utter derision.

Glad to see once again I was right and they wrong.

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Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2012-08-13 00:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Boom
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw: 287m sell/263m buy
Hulk: 224m sell/170m buy
Skiff: 190m sell/164m buy

I thought the intention of the barge buff was to remove one barge being best. That being the Hulk. The Mackinkaw has taken the Hulks old roll as king of the barges, the yield is almost as good as the Hulk, it has better tank, and it has a massive ore hold which is the primary thing that's making it so overpowered.


When I said it before the patch, like here and here was welcome with denial if not utter derision.

Glad to see once again I was right and they wrong.


And the denial doesn't end here either ;) even though the screenshots i posted on the previous page paint a clear picture of just how popular the mac is and how unpopular the hulk has become. I think someone pointed out that market price reflects this too?
ashley Eoner
#109 - 2012-08-13 00:22:22 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw: 287m sell/263m buy
Hulk: 224m sell/170m buy
Skiff: 190m sell/164m buy

I thought the intention of the barge buff was to remove one barge being best. That being the Hulk. The Mackinkaw has taken the Hulks old roll as king of the barges, the yield is almost as good as the Hulk, it has better tank, and it has a massive ore hold which is the primary thing that's making it so overpowered.


When I said it before the patch, like here and here was welcome with denial if not utter derision.

Glad to see once again I was right and they wrong.


And the denial doesn't end here either ;) even though belt statistics paint a clear picture of just how popular the mac is and how unpopular the hulk has become.
One could also draw the conclusion that solo mining is far more popular in highsec than fleet mining... nawww that makes sense and doesn't jibe with the whole OMG MACK IS THE BESTES TTHING EVA NO ONE FLIES HULKS!!!111
alittlebirdy
All Hail The Liopleurodon
#110 - 2012-08-13 00:23:29 UTC
CCP if it aint broke fix it... lawl

Ya mack is smaller than hulk yet gets the same yeild pretty much.. better tank, HUGE ore hold...

More than a hauler... but come on anyone REALLY shocked anymore they put the UI though... and left it...

At this point I am not shocked at anything.

MMO
Noooooo
MMAFK
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2012-08-13 00:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Boom
ashley Eoner wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw: 287m sell/263m buy
Hulk: 224m sell/170m buy
Skiff: 190m sell/164m buy

I thought the intention of the barge buff was to remove one barge being best. That being the Hulk. The Mackinkaw has taken the Hulks old roll as king of the barges, the yield is almost as good as the Hulk, it has better tank, and it has a massive ore hold which is the primary thing that's making it so overpowered.


When I said it before the patch, like here and here was welcome with denial if not utter derision.

Glad to see once again I was right and they wrong.


And the denial doesn't end here either ;) even though belt statistics paint a clear picture of just how popular the mac is and how unpopular the hulk has become.
One could also draw the conclusion that solo mining is far more popular in highsec than fleet mining... nawww that makes sense and doesn't jibe with the whole OMG MACK IS THE BESTES TTHING EVA NO ONE FLIES HULKS!!!111


Some of the belts I screenshotted had over a dozen orcas yet no hulks, so much for orca support groups using hulks.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#112 - 2012-08-13 00:29:56 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw: 287m sell/263m buy
Hulk: 224m sell/170m buy
Skiff: 190m sell/164m buy

I thought the intention of the barge buff was to remove one barge being best. That being the Hulk. The Mackinkaw has taken the Hulks old roll as king of the barges, the yield is almost as good as the Hulk, it has better tank, and it has a massive ore hold which is the primary thing that's making it so overpowered.


When I said it before the patch, like here and here was welcome with denial if not utter derision.

Glad to see once again I was right and they wrong.


And the denial doesn't end here either ;) even though the screenshots i posted on the previous page paint a clear picture of just how popular the mac is and how unpopular the hulk has become. I think someone pointed out that market price reflects this too?


Of course, it's people who never set a foot outside of the forums. They live off EFT paper numbers and demand vs supply theories (nobody even mentioned what period of the year we are, when sentencing what factors affect price).

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#113 - 2012-08-13 00:35:58 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw: 287m sell/263m buy
Hulk: 224m sell/170m buy
Skiff: 190m sell/164m buy

I thought the intention of the barge buff was to remove one barge being best. That being the Hulk. The Mackinkaw has taken the Hulks old roll as king of the barges, the yield is almost as good as the Hulk, it has better tank, and it has a massive ore hold which is the primary thing that's making it so overpowered. Able to mine on ice roids for over half an hour as a semi afk income, it can't be beaten, it has taken the role of the Hulk as the primary choice of barge. Failing that, the retriever, which is almost as good.

There's one main reason for this. 35k m3 ore hold, not far below that of an ORCA. Does anyone else think that the devs didn't think this through too well? I can't see many miners not taking a Mackinkaw over a Hulk even with Orca support, because 35k m3 ore hold allows them to do other things while your Mackinkaw pulls in what is basically an afk income for at least half an hour at a time.

It's already apparent what effect this is having on the ice market. If the trend continues, soon the only people mining ice will be bots and afk alts.

Someone pointed out below that the Mackinkaw hauls ore better than an actual hauler does now. It takes the primary role of a hauler and does it better. You may aswell have just taken the Iteron MK5/Occator and given it mining lasers and hulk like yield. That's what we have now, a super industrial all in one miner and hauler


The influx of bots is already noticeable, in last 4 days ive seen so many bots where before there were none. They come an go to the exact same spot, they act exactly same every time no matter what you do....

CCP may be trying to mainstream EVE to please the wow player base, but it is gonna blow up in their face.
I was reported for (an get this) Race hate, an griefing yesterday for killing miners an blowing up some harvesters. THIS! is the player base CCP are pandering too, it's sad that those of us who have been here for 7 years have to put up with this crap :).

Now, granted I dont give a toss if I am reported, but it highlights the idiots EVE is beginning to attract. The non bots which are few an far between all now ignore you completely, since they now know they are completely immune to anything but a mass battleship gank. I had hoped CCP learned from the gold ship debacle, but I guess not. Apparently miners are above the rule set the rest of us have to follow ??, I know last night in scope I saw an hysterical conversation that was around the idea of "Demanding CCP make mission runners immune to ganks" because it isnt fair. LOL
ashley Eoner
#114 - 2012-08-13 00:37:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Suddenly Boom wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw: 287m sell/263m buy
Hulk: 224m sell/170m buy
Skiff: 190m sell/164m buy

I thought the intention of the barge buff was to remove one barge being best. That being the Hulk. The Mackinkaw has taken the Hulks old roll as king of the barges, the yield is almost as good as the Hulk, it has better tank, and it has a massive ore hold which is the primary thing that's making it so overpowered.


When I said it before the patch, like here and here was welcome with denial if not utter derision.

Glad to see once again I was right and they wrong.


And the denial doesn't end here either ;) even though belt statistics paint a clear picture of just how popular the mac is and how unpopular the hulk has become.
One could also draw the conclusion that solo mining is far more popular in highsec than fleet mining... nawww that makes sense and doesn't jibe with the whole OMG MACK IS THE BESTES TTHING EVA NO ONE FLIES HULKS!!!111


Some of the belts I screenshotted had over a dozen orcas yet no hulks, so much for orca support groups using hulks.
So fleet now means an orca and a mack or two.. Your definition of "fleet" is quite quaint...

When I'm mining with my two macks and an orca I don't consider that a fleet either. I'm just solo mining...
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#115 - 2012-08-13 00:39:40 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
New Mack is awesome, great change for the downtrodden hisec miners, Goon stranglehold on Eve economy is loosening Bear

There never was a stranglehold on economy. Jihad/hulkageddon only effected the lazy an the stupid. It is impossible to die in HS if you pay attention.
ashley Eoner
#116 - 2012-08-13 00:43:24 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
[quote=Peter Raptor]it is impossible to die in HS if you pay attention.
That is not even remotely true..
Amber Coldheart
Doomheim
#117 - 2012-08-13 00:45:45 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
It is impossible to die in HS if you pay attention.

hehe, now that is bull :)

If someone wants to kill you, you'll get killed.. high sec or not.. and no matter what you are flying.. its just a matter of how much the ganker is potentially willing to spend.
Quuu
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-08-13 00:45:57 UTC
Great job ccp on the mining barges now the price of ore can tank once again because in stead of actally fixing a problem you now have given the bots a leg up. At least the price of ships will drop to bad there wont be any real players left to buy em lol. Roll
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#119 - 2012-08-13 00:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Melodee619
ashley Eoner wrote:
Melodee619 wrote:
[quote=Peter Raptor]it is impossible to die in HS if you pay attention.
That is not even remotely true..


Last time I died to a gank was bvack in Jihad, when I was foolish enough to mine in Genisis which was goons favorite hunting ground. I treat HS just the same as I would 4CB7x or 9UY etc etc..... I use SS, an I have insta warps off every station I use. Never once been ganked since that day. When I mission I Dscan every 15 seconds on dot.

Edit, an I never EVER mission in high population systems.
It is most definitely true
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#120 - 2012-08-13 00:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Melodee619 wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
New Mack is awesome, great change for the downtrodden hisec miners, Goon stranglehold on Eve economy is loosening Bear

There never was a stranglehold on economy. Jihad/hulkageddon only effected the lazy an the stupid. It is impossible to die in HS if you pay attention.


This happened before perma Hulkageddon.
While you paid attention and lost 1 ship, many never lost a ship and mined so AFK that they could go walk the dog, eat a snack and much more. When they lost that ship they would notice they lost 1 day worth of mining over 1 year of no gank and they carried on.

Not sure it was worth to play like a spasm low sec perma danger miner, it's not like your efforts earned 1 penny more than the lazy AFKers.

I still keep my ancient, large rigs Hulks parked in a station as souvenir. They had some massive AFK mining done on them Blink

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