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The new Mackinkaw, new king miner, better than a hauler, all in one, afk mining machine.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2012-08-12 16:34:59 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
More yield by far? You call 9% a lot? Infact all of the barges yields are very close to each. The mackinkaws tank is also stronger , even when running a max yield fit than the max yield Hulk.

Hulk, 9% more yield than Mack
Mack, over 400% more ore holding space than Hulk

Cargo space is a godsend, i don't know why they decided to make it so stupidly high.
Yes, 25% more yield for a comparable fit indeed makes the king by far, and if you try to make up for that difference, you suffer by making the Mack a hell of a lot easier to kill, which, since it screams “I'm AFK”, is a bad thing.

The reason it got the cargo space it got is because it's intended to replace jet cans. The reason the Hulk didn't get it is because it doesn't need it, since the fleet provides an infinitely deep hole to pour it into.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#62 - 2012-08-12 16:35:11 UTC
Easthir Ravin wrote:
Greetings

Eve pilots. Never a more finicky crew of panty waists and complainers. The reason the barges were buffed was because of a successful never ending b*tching campaign by the "bears" of EVE. The intend of which was to increase mining by introducing roll based ships as opposed to linear progression based ships , making minerals more available, driving manufacturing costs down, and stabilizing the market. Add the addition of Alchemy in an attempt to stabilize Tech and T2 prices, we might also see a decrease in ship prices as well.

2 cents



mmmmm roll based ships...

i am hungry now

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-08-12 16:38:40 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Andski wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
I think what needs to be done now is to get rid of NPC corps... now that you cant just insta gank these things anymore you should be able to war dec these people... just force them into thier respective faction warfare corp and there you have it...


Heh they can most definitely be ganked, easily



i was runing the number got around a 30k ehp tank on the mack... not bad... not safe either...

how many catalysts do you need now to kill one?

with heat on you get what 650 dps out of each one? so 4 do 2600 dps so in 11 seconds its dead...
not bad at all i guess... just takes more coordination...


650 DPS is only with all skills at V, void and heat on an all-neutron catalyst, which you can't fit a scram+web on with 3 magstabs. It's more reasonable to assume 460 dps with heat and named blasters with faction ammo or 580 dps on a 5 neutron/2 ion catalyst with CPU rigs.

You can get 47k EHP against blasters if you brick it and keep hardeners preheated FYI

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tigress Tionese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-08-12 16:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tigress Tionese
Tippia wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
More yield by far? You call 9% a lot? Infact all of the barges yields are very close to each. The mackinkaws tank is also stronger , even when running a max yield fit than the max yield Hulk.

Hulk, 9% more yield than Mack
Mack, over 400% more ore holding space than Hulk

Cargo space is a godsend, i don't know why they decided to make it so stupidly high.
Yes, 25% more yield for a comparable fit indeed makes the king by far, and if you try to make up for that difference, you suffer by making the Mack a hell of a lot easier to kill, which, since it screams “I'm AFK”, is a bad thing.

The reason it got the cargo space it got is because it's intended to replace jet cans. The reason the Hulk didn't get it is because it doesn't need it, since the fleet provides an infinitely deep hole to pour it into.


Now you've proved how clueless you are on the situation. Quoted so you can't try to hide the rubbish you just wrote. Mackinkaw beats hulk on tank in every comparable yield situation between the two. It has more hull, armor, shields, more spare CPU and GRID once mining lasers/harvesters are equipped.

25% more yield with comparable tank? LOL the jokes on you.

The only thing hulk has going for it over the mackinkaw is 9% more yield in a max yield setup.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#65 - 2012-08-12 16:59:00 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
The only thing hulk has going for it over the mackinkaw is 9% more yield in a max yield setup.
You're one of the reasons I liked the change, because there will always be those fitting for max yield and then crying when they diaf. Cool

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tigress Tionese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-08-12 17:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tigress Tionese
Mag's wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
The only thing hulk has going for it over the mackinkaw is 9% more yield in a max yield setup.
You're one of the reasons I liked the change, because there will always be those fitting for max yield and then crying when they diaf. Cool


You like the change? You like that a max yield Mackinkaw can now reach 20k EHP, which is as much as a fully tanked prepatch mackinkaw could get.

Also you failed to see the point, max yield or not, a Mackinkaw tanks better than a comparably tanked Hulk. Some guy posted a hulk fitting with no mining upgrades but 31k EHP, the max yield mack outmines that hulk by 9%. If the mack removed one mining upgrade and fitted extra tank, it could reach even higher levels of tank and maintain the same yield as that same hulk.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-08-12 17:17:09 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
You like that a max yield Mackinkaw can now reach 20k EHP, which is as much as a fully tanked prepatch mackinkaw could get.


Hey we're not going to stop you from thinking that 20k EHP isn't paper-thin.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#68 - 2012-08-12 17:18:59 UTC
ITT we get a buff, then whine.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#69 - 2012-08-12 17:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw beats hulk on tank in every comparable yield situation between the two.
…by such a small margin that you might as well use the Hulk if you're going for max yield on the Mack. A significant part of the Mack's improved tank lies in that third lowslot — if you ignore it and go for yield instead, you certainly come a bit close to the Hulk in terms of yield, but you also becomes so much weaker that you've just wasted one of its strong points. You are now flying a ship that tells everyone that you are AFK, and if you only get 20k EHP out of it, you have wasted a third of its tanking potential in at attempt to still be mine less than the Hulk, so guess what happens when they come flocking to that big “I'm AFK” neon sign you've erected…

Quote:
25% more yield with comparable tank?
No. 25% more yield with a comparable fit.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#70 - 2012-08-12 17:30:10 UTC
Andski wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
You like that a max yield Mackinkaw can now reach 20k EHP, which is as much as a fully tanked prepatch mackinkaw could get.


Hey we're not going to stop you from thinking that 20k EHP isn't paper-thin.
Hey I'm good with everything the little Tigress says tbh.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tigress Tionese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-08-12 17:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tigress Tionese
Tippia wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Mackinkaw beats hulk on tank in every comparable yield situation between the two.
…by such a small margin that you might as well use the Hulk if you're going for max yield on the Mack. A significant part of the Mack's improved tank lies in that third lowslot — if you ignore it and go for yield instead, you certainly come a bit close to the Hulk in terms of yield, but you also becomes so much weaker that you've just wasted one of its strong points. You are now flying a ship that tells everyone that you are AFK, and if you only get 20k EHP out of it, you have wasted a third of its tanking potential in at attempt to still be mine less than the Hulk, so guess what happens when they come flocking to that big “I'm AFK” neon sign you've erected…

Quote:
25% more yield with comparable tank?
No. 25% more yield with a comparable fit.


Give an example of this 25% more yield with a comparable fit. Incase you don't bother, i'll do one for you.

Hulk, 2 mining laser upgrades, leaving hardly any room for tank, be lucky to get 15k EHP, but this is a must in order to achieve 25% yield over the mack.
Mackinkaw, to have 25% less yield it's forced to use no more than 1 mining laser upgrade. Lots of room left to make a 30k+ EHP tank.

Is this what you mean? It's very pointless and very fail.

Just admit you were wrong, the hulk can get nowhere near 25% more yield with a comparable fit. It's NINE PERCENT.
Tikera Tissant
#72 - 2012-08-12 17:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tikera Tissant
Tippia wrote:
Yes, 25% more yield for a comparable fit indeed


At least ore wise, fully skilled with perfect orca boosting, its about 15% difference in m3 on ore mining. Not 9% but not 25%.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-08-12 17:36:27 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Julien Brellier wrote:
Hulk just got more hitpoints, more cpu and more powergird.
It has a stronger tank than before the patch and it still by far the king of pure yield.
Before the patch your Hulk would fill up in perhaps 3 cycles and now it's gone down to one.
Hulk pilots now have to pay a little bit more attention during mining ops.
Boo hoooooooooo


More yield by far? You call 9% a lot? Infact all of the barges yields are very close to each. The mackinkaws tank is also stronger , even when running a max yield fit than the max yield Hulk.

Hulk, 9% more yield than Mack
Mack, over 400% more ore holding space than Hulk

Cargo space is a godsend, i don't know why they decided to make it so stupidly high.


+9% yeild per cycle?

If that is the case, that is significant over time.

Not a miner so I don't understand the intricacies of fitting mining ships...but 9% extra DPS for a ship would be a great bonus...just saying...

As for Mack hold space, give both orca support and which would you rather have? From what I understand, orca support makes cargo hold size irrelevent. So that 9% looks much better with an orca there...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after all the discussion on this, I think I have this understood; not even a miner and it makes sense, how can people that do this for a "career" not get it?

James315 for CSM 8!
Tigress Tionese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-08-12 17:36:50 UTC
Tikera Tissant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
[quote=Tigress Tionese]Yes, 25% more yield for a comparable fit indeed


At least ore wise, fully skilled with perfect orca boosting, its about 15% difference in m3 on ore mining. Not 9% but not 25%.


With ore 15% may be closer, but with ice it's only 9%. I'm glad someone else sees that the 25% number is ridiculous.
Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-08-12 17:44:38 UTC
Since you don't seem to understand - the mackinaw is a solo ship. As such the only reasonable fit is to go full tank since you'll be a prime target for gankers. The hulk's role is a fleet ship and as such it should go full yield since it has the protection of the fleet. When you compare the yield of the two in their respective optimal situations the difference in yield is huge.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#76 - 2012-08-12 17:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Give an example of this 25% more yield with a comparable fit. Incase you don't bother, i'll do one for you.
Full set of miners, same amount of upgrades, the rest tank (and filling out any remaining slots with some low-CPU stuff since you'll be very low on both ships). This means that we're only really seeing the inherent differences in the ship bonuses which, as it happens, turn out to be +15%+15% compared to +5%… The difference is a bit over 25% (closer to 26% actually, and we haven't included the loss from travel time on the Mack).

In such a situation, the Hulk will sit at ~20k EHP and the Mack at ~35k.

Ripping out the suitcase on the Mack and replacing it with an MLU means you have to start losing hardeners and are edging towards low-20k EHP instead.
Tikera Tissant
#77 - 2012-08-12 17:47:08 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:

Not a miner so I don't understand the intricacies of fitting mining ships...but 9% extra DPS for a ship would be a great bonus...just saying...


TBH I think the argument is just about which ship is the "king" of afk mining.
If it was a 40% less yield ship, they would still king it if it means going to the gym for 5 hours and coming back with a full cargo...

I think its a pretty silly argument. EvE is not about going AFK.
Tigress Tionese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-08-12 17:54:12 UTC
Sarton Wells wrote:
Since you don't seem to understand - the mackinaw is a solo ship. As such the only reasonable fit is to go full tank since you'll be a prime target for gankers. The hulk's role is a fleet ship and as such it should go full yield since it has the protection of the fleet. When you compare the yield of the two in their respective optimal situations the difference in yield is huge.


Rubbish, a well skilled mackinkaw with max yield fitting has enough tank that even 3 max dps catalysts may sometimes fail to kill it, they'd need 4 max dps catalysts to be on the safe side.

And since when did being in a fleet protect you from suicide ganks? That's also rubbish. Gankers look for the exhumers with the lowest EHP first and being in a fleet with other miners, well, what do you expect them to do? Mine the ganker?
Tigress Tionese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-08-12 17:56:05 UTC
Tikera Tissant wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:

Not a miner so I don't understand the intricacies of fitting mining ships...but 9% extra DPS for a ship would be a great bonus...just saying...


TBH I think the argument is just about which ship is the "king" of afk mining.
If it was a 40% less yield ship, they would still king it if it means going to the gym for 5 hours and coming back with a full cargo...

I think its a pretty silly argument. EvE is not about going AFK.


Right, eve isn't about AFK, so then why we do now have the mackinkaw with an ore hold that let's it AFK mine for up to an hour. Even a max yield Mackinkaw with orca bonuses is going to take 30 minutes to fill up with ice.
Alyth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-08-12 17:56:48 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Andski wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
I think what needs to be done now is to get rid of NPC corps... now that you cant just insta gank these things anymore you should be able to war dec these people... just force them into thier respective faction warfare corp and there you have it...


Heh they can most definitely be ganked, easily



i was runing the number got around a 30k ehp tank on the mack... not bad... not safe either...

how many catalysts do you need now to kill one?

with heat on you get what 650 dps out of each one? so 4 do 2600 dps so in 11 seconds its dead...
not bad at all i guess... just takes more coordination...


Yes, you could do that, The question is, why would you considering that each Cat costs like 15m each (last I checked, not been ingame for months) so based on that you'd need 60m worth of drops to just break even.